December 2013 LSAT Study Group

akechi
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Re: December 2013 LSAT Study Group

Postby akechi » Thu Oct 31, 2013 10:49 pm

Hi All,

Would anyone care to comment on how they differentiate between Strengthen and Necessary Assumption questions? Having gone through the PSLRB + review of respective chapters, I am still not quite clear on what the essential difference is between these two class of questions. To add to my confusion, Dave even suggests that Necessary Assumption questions can often times be approached much like Strengthen questions when causality is involved (i.e. show that when cause happens effect happens, show that when cause does NOT happen effect does NOT happen, and eliminate neglected alternatives that could weaken the argument). This is discussed in his section on the two sub-types of Assumption questions: The Supporter and The Defender.

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drawstring
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Re: December 2013 LSAT Study Group

Postby drawstring » Thu Oct 31, 2013 11:03 pm

The correct answer to NA questions is needed for the argument to be possible. Strengthen questions simply require something that strengthens the argument.

So:

NA: 'Since I am short, I certainly won't play in the NBA.' Well, in order for my conclusion to follow from my premise, we must assume multiples things, an obvious one being that shortness doesn't ensure that one will play in the NBA. If it did, our argument falls apart.

ST: 'Since I am short, I certainly won't play in the NBA.' There are several things that could strengthen this argument without being needed for the argument to be plausible. For example, an answer reading 'NBA teams always try to avoid selecting players that are short' suggests to us that this person's shortness will be work against them playing in the NBA. It doesn't make the conclusion true, and it isn't needed to make the conclusion true, but it does offer support.

EveryLSAT
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Re: December 2013 LSAT Study Group

Postby EveryLSAT » Thu Oct 31, 2013 11:34 pm

If anyone needs some extra PrepTests check out Image, we have them all in the new two page Games format including the free June 2007 exam.

Good Luck!

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retaking23
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Re: December 2013 LSAT Study Group

Postby retaking23 » Thu Oct 31, 2013 11:45 pm

akechi wrote:Hi All,

Would anyone care to comment on how they differentiate between Strengthen and Necessary Assumption questions? Having gone through the PSLRB + review of respective chapters, I am still not quite clear on what the essential difference is between these two class of questions. To add to my confusion, Dave even suggests that Necessary Assumption questions can often times be approached much like Strengthen questions when causality is involved (i.e. show that when cause happens effect happens, show that when cause does NOT happen effect does NOT happen, and eliminate neglected alternatives that could weaken the argument). This is discussed in his section on the two sub-types of Assumption questions: The Supporter and The Defender.


+1 to Drawstring's post.

Also, here's my two cents.

NA questions, simply, want you to choose something that must be true for the argument to hold. It's different from an inference question (the must be true's and most supporting's) however, so you shouldn't expect to extrapolate anything new from the argument. It's more like a meta-inference (if you want to think of it as that). Here's another example:

Bob lives in Boston. Therefore, he was at Fenway Park yesterday to watch the Red Sox beat the Cardinals to win the 2013 World Series.

There are clearly holes in this argument but suppose it was now asking for a NA. And one of those choices, say B, read as follows: Bob has not been on Jupiter for the last two years. In no way could you reach this from the premise that Bob lives in Boston, but it has to be true for the argument to hold. So it is a NA

Coincidentally, this NA is also a strengthener in that it rules out the possibility that Bob was not on Earth and therefore increases the PROBABILITY of him being at Fenway.

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HardenUp
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Re: December 2013 LSAT Study Group

Postby HardenUp » Fri Nov 01, 2013 12:13 am

drawstring wrote:
HardenUp wrote:Has anyone gone to where their LSAT will be administered and taken a few PTs in the same building or room?

I'm trying to do that for mine, but the college that it will be held at is unable to let me know if the buildings are open and what room will be requested.

I figured going there would help me become comfortable with the surroundings and also get me acquainted with the hour long drive in the morning that I'll have to do.

Any thoughts?


My LSAT was administered in my UG in a room I had multiple classes in. I was able to drill on two occasions in the room, but it was never free long enough to complete a full PT.

I think being familiar with your testing environment and already having testing experience in that environment can only help.


That's what I'm thinking too. It can only help. On my ticket it just doesn't list the actual room that it'll be administered in, so I'm thinking that I go on the floor it'll be administered and do a different classroom. Fingers wickedly crossed.

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HardenUp
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Re: December 2013 LSAT Study Group

Postby HardenUp » Fri Nov 01, 2013 12:17 am

tannerdb wrote:
drawstring wrote:
HardenUp wrote:Has anyone gone to where their LSAT will be administered and taken a few PTs in the same building or room?

I'm trying to do that for mine, but the college that it will be held at is unable to let me know if the buildings are open and what room will be requested.

I figured going there would help me become comfortable with the surroundings and also get me acquainted with the hour long drive in the morning that I'll have to do.

Any thoughts?


My LSAT was administered in my UG in a room I had multiple classes in. I was able to drill on two occasions in the room, but it was never free long enough to complete a full PT.

I think being familiar with your testing environment and already having testing experience in that environment can only help.


I think I might just go to my testing building a few times and mimic the admin bubbling waiting and the break.
I find that it is easier to stay collected in the morning but the 15 min break with the washroom going and additional administrative stuff is hard to replicate.

The adrenaline goes down during the break. My proctors told 15 mins of jokes (bad ones) after the break ended and it threw me off as I didn't find them funny and it stressed me more. I think it will be very useful to do the 3 section /break/ 2 section at least twice before you go in for the real thing.



This may be a dumber question to ask, but what's "admin bubble waiting?"

I haven't taken the test before.

That sucks about the joke part. I'm thinking that I just grab a banana and some almonds and eat that for the break on every practice test I take until the actual LSAT. Followed by waking up at the same time and trying to start at the same time.

You may be able to help, but on my ticket it says that I, "should report no later than 8:30 a.m." I'm wondering if that means the test will be at 9 or so.

I'm not sure how it all goes. But maybe show up at 8:00 a.m., sign in, sit down, and they'll talk for a bit. Any help there is greatly appreciated.

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vicpin5190
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Re: December 2013 LSAT Study Group

Postby vicpin5190 » Fri Nov 01, 2013 12:19 am

so like real talk, how much easier are the RC's from PT 38 down, because I've been doing extensive drilling of the RC's from PT 29-38 and i'm finding that i"M just doing exceedingly better on these than on the RC passages of later. To a concerning degree that I feel like I'm wasting my time.

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retaking23
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Re: December 2013 LSAT Study Group

Postby retaking23 » Fri Nov 01, 2013 12:23 am

HardenUp wrote:

This may be a dumber question to ask, but what's "admin bubble waiting?"

I haven't taken the test before.

That sucks about the joke part. I'm thinking that I just grab a banana and some almonds and eat that for the break on every practice test I take until the actual LSAT. Followed by waking up at the same time and trying to start at the same time.

You may be able to help, but on my ticket it says that I, "should report no later than 8:30 a.m." I'm wondering if that means the test will be at 9 or so.

I'm not sure how it all goes. But maybe show up at 8:00 a.m., sign in, sit down, and they'll talk for a bit. Any help there is greatly appreciated.


I've been there and done that twice already. Be there around 8 am so in case you get into traffic or something you'll still make 8:30 deadline. Trust me, as someone who's been perpetually late for everything school related since middle school, the LSAT IS something worth getting early to. Both of my tests started between 9 and 10. It depends on how many people are at the center and the proctor and their protocols.

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tannerdb
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Re: December 2013 LSAT Study Group

Postby tannerdb » Fri Nov 01, 2013 1:00 am

HardenUp wrote:
tannerdb wrote:
drawstring wrote:
HardenUp wrote:Has anyone gone to where their LSAT will be administered and taken a few PTs in the same building or room?

I'm trying to do that for mine, but the college that it will be held at is unable to let me know if the buildings are open and what room will be requested.

I figured going there would help me become comfortable with the surroundings and also get me acquainted with the hour long drive in the morning that I'll have to do.

Any thoughts?


My LSAT was administered in my UG in a room I had multiple classes in. I was able to drill on two occasions in the room, but it was never free long enough to complete a full PT.

I think being familiar with your testing environment and already having testing experience in that environment can only help.


I think I might just go to my testing building a few times and mimic the admin bubbling waiting and the break.
I find that it is easier to stay collected in the morning but the 15 min break with the washroom going and additional administrative stuff is hard to replicate.

The adrenaline goes down during the break. My proctors told 15 mins of jokes (bad ones) after the break ended and it threw me off as I didn't find them funny and it stressed me more. I think it will be very useful to do the 3 section /break/ 2 section at least twice before you go in for the real thing.



This may be a dumber question to ask, but what's "admin bubble waiting?"

I haven't taken the test before.

That sucks about the joke part. I'm thinking that I just grab a banana and some almonds and eat that for the break on every practice test I take until the actual LSAT. Followed by waking up at the same time and trying to start at the same time.

You may be able to help, but on my ticket it says that I, "should report no later than 8:30 a.m." I'm wondering if that means the test will be at 9 or so.

I'm not sure how it all goes. But maybe show up at 8:00 a.m., sign in, sit down, and they'll talk for a bit. Any help there is greatly appreciated.


Sorry, I just meant that the administration, bubbling your personal data onto the scantron, and general waiting to start process can take 30 to 45 mins. I didn't start Section one till... 9:30 ish.

We were in multiple rooms and they sent a woman to each room to dictate when all rooms can start. I don't know why she couldn't just call or text their cell numbers. Judging by the washroom usage at break not all proctors followed the strict timing but my proctors were real sticklers to whatever the lady said. The main proctor even told a borderline offensive joke after the final written segment that lasted 3 mins. We were not dismissed until he told the punch line.

Just get a friend to pretend to be a proctor. Tell then to annoy you a bit during the break, make your break 25 mins and get your friend to force you to do some random admin crap during the break. Also learn to hold your fluids in as at least eight people around me left during section 3 and start of section 5 to go to the washroom. These little things can help you be mentally prepared for the real thing. I honestly was not before going in my first time, the break threw me off as I never did the practice break... I crazily did 4 and 5 sections with no break in between when I practiced.

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tannerdb
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Re: December 2013 LSAT Study Group

Postby tannerdb » Fri Nov 01, 2013 1:04 am

retaking23 wrote:
HardenUp wrote:

This may be a dumber question to ask, but what's "admin bubble waiting?"

I haven't taken the test before.

That sucks about the joke part. I'm thinking that I just grab a banana and some almonds and eat that for the break on every practice test I take until the actual LSAT. Followed by waking up at the same time and trying to start at the same time.

You may be able to help, but on my ticket it says that I, "should report no later than 8:30 a.m." I'm wondering if that means the test will be at 9 or so.

I'm not sure how it all goes. But maybe show up at 8:00 a.m., sign in, sit down, and they'll talk for a bit. Any help there is greatly appreciated.


I've been there and done that twice already. Be there around 8 am so in case you get into traffic or something you'll still make 8:30 deadline. Trust me, as someone who's been perpetually late for everything school related since middle school, the LSAT IS something worth getting early to. Both of my tests started between 9 and 10. It depends on how many people are at the center and the proctor and their protocols.


Agree with this... Gives you time to go to the washroom twice if you are nervous too. I arrived at 8am and the wait goes quicker outside than you think.

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Otunga
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Re: December 2013 LSAT Study Group

Postby Otunga » Fri Nov 01, 2013 6:16 am

vicpin5190 wrote:so like real talk, how much easier are the RC's from PT 38 down, because I've been doing extensive drilling of the RC's from PT 29-38 and i'm finding that i"M just doing exceedingly better on these than on the RC passages of later. To a concerning degree that I feel like I'm wasting my time.


They are easier. They're not so much easier to the point though that improvement isn't a good indicator of improvement on the later RCs. The questions just demand more nuanced inferences in the modern RCs. What's the difference in your case between the 29-38 scores and the recent RC scores?

To put it into perspective, I was hitting some -1s/-2s on old RCs and then when I got to 60s RC, I was hitting -7 - -9. It took the whole summer to get that down to a range of -2 - -5. I scored -5 on the real thing in Oct but look to improve there (and obviously overall) in Dec.

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kjane96
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Re: December 2013 LSAT Study Group

Postby kjane96 » Fri Nov 01, 2013 9:35 am

Overheard at my LSAT class last night:

Student A: California law schools, man. That's where it's at.
Student B: Definitely dude. Where are you looking?
Student A: I don't know, I really like Stanford.
Student B: Oh, yeah, it's nice there. Stanford's cool but it wouldn't help me with what I want to do. I'd much rather be in LA, that's why UCLA is my first choice.
Student A: What do you want to do?
Student B: Entertainment law.
Student A: Oh yeah! Me too.

:shock:

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Otunga
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Re: December 2013 LSAT Study Group

Postby Otunga » Fri Nov 01, 2013 9:58 am

kjane96 wrote:Overheard at my LSAT class last night:

Student A: California law schools, man. That's where it's at.
Student B: Definitely dude. Where are you looking?
Student A: I don't know, I really like Stanford.
Student B: Oh, yeah, it's nice there. Stanford's cool but it wouldn't help me with what I want to do. I'd much rather be in LA, that's why UCLA is my first choice.
Student A: What do you want to do?
Student B: Entertainment law.
Student A: Oh yeah! Me too.

:shock:


Maybe Student A isn't corrupted yet and still really likes Stanford.

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HardenUp
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Re: December 2013 LSAT Study Group

Postby HardenUp » Fri Nov 01, 2013 10:39 am

Perfect, thanks for the help.

I'll start taking it around 9/ 9:30 a.m. sense it isn't likely to start at 8:30.

I've been taking the break during my PTs and that helps me unwind, but like you said, it won't be the same every time, so I'll talk to people or whatnot for practice.

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Lock74
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Re: December 2013 LSAT Study Group

Postby Lock74 » Fri Nov 01, 2013 10:51 am

Hey guys I was wondering if I could get some advice on how I should structure the next 5 weeks of studying. I have put a lot of time in RC and LG and I routinely score between -1 to -3 on RC and -0 on LG. I lose most of my points on LR which I only started studying for roughly 4 weeks ago.

I have gone through the trainer along with MLSAT and have definitely seen some improvement and when doing sections timing has not been a problem but I usually average -6 to -10 wrong overall on LR. I am wondering if I should limit myself to roughly 2 PTS a week with 6 sections and the rest of the time spent drilling along with going over the guides. I have drilled roughly 1/3 of the 1-38 LR bundle so I still have a good bit of material there. I am hoping that this will get me caught up in LR and as it does I can spend more time PTing as we get closer to the test.

Also I have all of the PTS and have only used 1-38 and was wondering since there is 5 weeks lefts should most of my PTS be from 50 plus? Also would it be worthwhile to buy the 40-60 LR bundle and drill those or should I save 40-60 for fresh PTs? Thanks for any advice.

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action90
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Re: December 2013 LSAT Study Group

Postby action90 » Fri Nov 01, 2013 11:09 am

Otunga wrote:
vicpin5190 wrote:so like real talk, how much easier are the RC's from PT 38 down, because I've been doing extensive drilling of the RC's from PT 29-38 and i'm finding that i"M just doing exceedingly better on these than on the RC passages of later. To a concerning degree that I feel like I'm wasting my time.


They are easier. They're not so much easier to the point though that improvement isn't a good indicator of improvement on the later RCs. The questions just demand more nuanced inferences in the modern RCs. What's the difference in your case between the 29-38 scores and the recent RC scores?

To put it into perspective, I was hitting some -1s/-2s on old RCs and then when I got to 60s RC, I was hitting -7 - -9. It took the whole summer to get that down to a range of -2 - -5. I scored -5 on the real thing in Oct but look to improve there (and obviously overall) in Dec.


I wouldn't say they were easier so much as I would say that the questions are just different. The newer RCs have questions that are similar to LR questions.

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Metaplay
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Re: December 2013 LSAT Study Group

Postby Metaplay » Fri Nov 01, 2013 12:11 pm

Longtime lurker checking in. Retaking for the third and last time. Let's do this!

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wealtheow
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Re: December 2013 LSAT Study Group

Postby wealtheow » Fri Nov 01, 2013 1:07 pm

just bought the pdf of PT 70! not taking it til closer to the real-deal, but definitely drove home how close PT 71 is getting! eek!

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vicpin5190
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Re: December 2013 LSAT Study Group

Postby vicpin5190 » Fri Nov 01, 2013 3:25 pm

Otunga wrote:
vicpin5190 wrote:so like real talk, how much easier are the RC's from PT 38 down, because I've been doing extensive drilling of the RC's from PT 29-38 and i'm finding that i"M just doing exceedingly better on these than on the RC passages of later. To a concerning degree that I feel like I'm wasting my time.


They are easier. They're not so much easier to the point though that improvement isn't a good indicator of improvement on the later RCs. The questions just demand more nuanced inferences in the modern RCs. What's the difference in your case between the 29-38 scores and the recent RC scores?

To put it into perspective, I was hitting some -1s/-2s on old RCs and then when I got to 60s RC, I was hitting -7 - -9. It took the whole summer to get that down to a range of -2 - -5. I scored -5 on the real thing in Oct but look to improve there (and obviously overall) in Dec.



I've been around -1/-2 on 29-38 and -5 to -8 in newer RCs. Not the most consistent.

akechi
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Re: December 2013 LSAT Study Group

Postby akechi » Fri Nov 01, 2013 6:45 pm

Scored my first perfect in a un-seen timed LG:

PT-14, S1, LG:
G1: 8m / -0
G2: 6m / -0
G3: 11m / -0
G4: 6m / -0

31m -0 24/24

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wealtheow
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Re: December 2013 LSAT Study Group

Postby wealtheow » Fri Nov 01, 2013 6:50 pm

finally got around to entering my stuff into lsatqa for PT60, which I did Monday, and I am so pleasantly surprised by my results!

W/ Blind Review:
LR1: -0
LR2: -1
RC: -0
LG: -0
Raw: 180!

Before Blind Review:
LR1: -1
LR2: -2
RC: -1
LG: -1
Raw: 176

this one felt really hard too! something is apparently working, unless this is a fluke. (hope not!)

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PatriotP74
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Otunga
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Re: December 2013 LSAT Study Group

Postby Otunga » Fri Nov 01, 2013 9:12 pm

PatriotP74 wrote:Alright question for everyone, been working in the Manhattan series, want to start one of two things, first thought was drilling from Cambridge, second thought was purchasing the 7sage course.

Opinions? Thoughts? Ideas?



Hope everyone's studies are going well!


I'd suggest drilling Cambridge and applying the Manhattan methods rather than jumping around to a different method. Things could get disjointed if you start the 7sage course after not really taking the time to apply what you've learned from Manhattan. I guess a good question is: how do you feel with the Manhattan methods? As you're using them in the prep books, do you feel like you can improve with them with more application?

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vicpin5190
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Re: December 2013 LSAT Study Group

Postby vicpin5190 » Sat Nov 02, 2013 12:16 am

Took PT 50 today

LR#1 -4
RC - 4
LG - 0
LR#2 -3
Raw = 89
Score = 169

Overall, felt alright, still need to improve on the LR's so I'm going to do some extensive drilling and review tomorrow, as well as PT 59 probably....I'd like to walk away with at most 2 on each LR for the actual test. If my RC can hold there (albeit this was a relatively simple section i thought), I think things are looking up.

gatorchomps
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Re: December 2013 LSAT Study Group

Postby gatorchomps » Sat Nov 02, 2013 1:39 pm

Took PT 62 today (Stained Glass, et al)
Scored a 162.

Ready to give up. :cry:




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