Is there any hope for me? (Logic games)

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gma221
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Is there any hope for me? (Logic games)

Postby gma221 » Wed Jul 17, 2013 2:16 pm

Hi all,

First post here. I'm seeking advice regarding logic game prep. I got a 164 on the June LSAT. I feel like that's a pretty decent score, but I'm frustrated because if I weren't struggling with logic games I'd be in 170 territory. I studied fairly religiously for three months prior to the June test. I used the PowerScore Bible and accompanying workbook exclusively, and went from being able to complete two games in the allotted time to three. I don't miss many of the questions I'm able to answer (0-1 usually), but I have to guess on about six of them. I'm very seriously considering retaking the test in October, but part of me wonders if it's a lost cause since I spent so much time studying the first time around. Anyone here with similar struggles, who eventually overcame them? Are there other books/study guides/websites that I should look into?

By the way, if it matters, my goal isn't to attend a T14 school. I live in the Pacific Northwest and have no plans to relocate. I'm hoping for a significant scholarship at a regional school. I'm a URM/seven years out of undergrad/graduated from a well-known private university on the east coast.

Thanks!

Nooblarzlarz
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Re: Is there any hope for me? (Logic games)

Postby Nooblarzlarz » Wed Jul 17, 2013 2:32 pm

What's your GPA and target schools' LSAT 25-75.

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Clearly
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Re: Is there any hope for me? (Logic games)

Postby Clearly » Wed Jul 17, 2013 2:46 pm

Look into velocity LSAT. Also, three months isn't really doing everything you can do. I spent at least twice as long before LG clicked for me, and it was my worst section by far as well.

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SteelPenguin
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Re: Is there any hope for me? (Logic games)

Postby SteelPenguin » Wed Jul 17, 2013 3:18 pm

Three months only completing 3 games per section isn't a particularly long amount of study time. You need to keep practicing, and definitely retake. What games or question types are slowing you down the most? Are you just plugging and chucking through several problems? If so, you're not making the inferences you should be. Repetition and reviewing will help your speed and understanding of LGs.

Also, if you're a URM, why not shoot for a 170+ and get a potentially large scholarship from a T6, or maybe even a school like Harvard? I'm not too familiar with URM numbers, but I am under the impression that 170+ URM apps are very rare.

bp shinners
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Re: Is there any hope for me? (Logic games)

Postby bp shinners » Wed Jul 17, 2013 4:23 pm

It's hard to make recommendations without knowing where you're losing time. Next time you do a game, keep track of:
How long it takes you to build a setup
How long it takes you to represent the rules
How long it takes you to work on deductions/scenarios
How long each question, individually, takes you - not an average, but a list of different times.

If you get that, we can give you more specific timing advice!

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gma221
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Re: Is there any hope for me? (Logic games)

Postby gma221 » Wed Jul 17, 2013 5:57 pm

Thanks for the encouragement. I'm happy to know you all don't think three months is a very long time to prepare. All of my friends/coworkers thought I was being completely overzealous -- my life pretty much revolved around the LSAT during that time and I disappeared from the face of the earth. Of course, none of them went to law school!

@Nooblarzlarz - my GPA is 3.54. Not great, I know, which is another reason I'd like to improve my LSAT score. The 25/75 percentile LSAT at my top choice school is 157/163, and for GPA it's 3.28/3.65.

@SteelPenguin - I've mastered the basic linear game type and can usually do those in less than the allotted time. For all other types, I'm basically like, "Derrr...." That's how I feel, at least! I'm definitely missing a lot of inferences. I got into the habit of doing each games section twice - first under timed conditions, then at a more leisurely pace. I usually have an "Aha!" moment during the second pass, and then I think, "Oh, next time I encounter this game type, it'll be a lot easier," but that never seems to happen. I'm not seeing patterns or learning as much as I should be from past mistakes.

Re: why I'm not aiming for a better school - if I were younger I'd be all about that, but I'm 29 and my priorities have changed. I've lived in four states in the last 10 years and am finally feeling settled now. My boyfriend and I recently bought our first home, so we're definitely staying put for awhile. It would feel good to say, "I went to Harvard Law" or whatever, but that's pure ego... it wouldn't be very practical. :)

@bp shinners - I suppose it's a bad sign that I don't have the answers to those questions. Before posting here I felt like the most hardcore LSAT studier out there... not so much anymore!

Anyway, thanks for your help thus far!

Nooblarzlarz
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Re: Is there any hope for me? (Logic games)

Postby Nooblarzlarz » Wed Jul 17, 2013 6:02 pm

gma221 wrote:@Nooblarzlarz - my GPA is 3.54. Not great, I know, which is another reason I'd like to improve my LSAT score. The 25/75 percentile LSAT at my top choice school is 157/163, and for GPA it's 3.28/3.65.


You're above their 75th LSAT, near their GPA 75th, and you're a URM. I'd be quite surprised if they didn't throw $$$$ at you with what you have. If you get it up to a 170 (which is definitely doable), you should be looking at a full ride or bust.

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gma221
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Re: Is there any hope for me? (Logic games)

Postby gma221 » Wed Jul 17, 2013 6:25 pm

Nooblarzlarz wrote:You're above their 75th LSAT, near their GPA 75th, and you're a URM. I'd be quite surprised if they didn't throw $$$$ at you with what you have. If you get it up to a 170 (which is definitely doable), you should be looking at a full ride or bust.


Well, I'm hoping for the latter situation! I feel very confident about being accepted with my current numbers but am not so sure about my chances of getting $$$. (FWIW I'm Mexican-American, and I've heard that doesn't count for much in law school admissions.) I've spent my entire career working at nonprofits for pretty meager wages, so I'll be taking out massive loans for law school unless I get a scholarship. I guess it's time to get cracking (again)!

Pancakes12
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Re: Is there any hope for me? (Logic games)

Postby Pancakes12 » Wed Jul 17, 2013 6:27 pm

Search 7sage LSAT. Their videos are useful in learning logic games.

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gma221
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Re: Is there any hope for me? (Logic games)

Postby gma221 » Wed Jul 17, 2013 9:49 pm

jlb251 wrote:Search 7sage LSAT. Their videos are useful in learning logic games.


Cool, thanks. I signed up for their free trial and like what I've seen so far.

kiyoku
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Re: Is there any hope for me? (Logic games)

Postby kiyoku » Wed Jul 17, 2013 10:01 pm

manhattan lg. if you haven't tried it, I benefited a lot from it.

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alexrodriguez
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Re: Is there any hope for me? (Logic games)

Postby alexrodriguez » Wed Jul 17, 2013 11:57 pm

Do every logic game that exists 10 times each. You'll be good at them after that.

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ManoftheHour
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Re: Is there any hope for me? (Logic games)

Postby ManoftheHour » Thu Jul 18, 2013 12:08 am

Went from -9 to -6 after Manhattan for LG. Should I do 7sage and/or velocity?

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SecondWind
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Re: Is there any hope for me? (Logic games)

Postby SecondWind » Thu Jul 18, 2013 1:26 am

The key to the games is the setup. If you have a good setup you can crush some of the games in 5min or less and many in 7min or less. I'm proof of that. When I first started, it took me 20+ min to complete individual games. So my thoughts are that you should look at several different answer keys (ex. LSAT Blog, Kaplan) and see how they set up the game and create a personalized "gma221 hybrid" setup that you feel comfortable with and incorporates the best aspects of each key. (I.e. Look at how others do the game, but in the end, do it your way.) I hope that makes sense.

Here's the model 7Sage uses: https://7sage.com/free_resources/fool-p ... -games.pdf


A couple tips that aren't new, but you might not know:
-Sometimes they will give you entities that are defined by multiple criteria. For instance, there are 2 males and 3 females going to the 2 different bars. In this, I would write all the first initial of the males' as a capital and use lowercase letters for females that way I could distinguish the two without thinking.
-For the last question of the game, use your master diagram, don't make a new one.
-Use other previously solved questions to solve other questions. For instance, the answer to the order of a complete and accurate list question where H in 3rd, could be use on a question that starts out "If H is 3rd...."

All in all, I noticed I was definitely getting better when I would draw my diagram, then would have very little writing after that doing most of the "what-ifs" in my head because A) a good setup/diagram allows you to do that and B) you just learn to get better/faster at it.

KCCO




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