Retake in October- Fiancee Advice

lucabrasi09
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Retake in October- Fiancee Advice

Postby lucabrasi09 » Fri Jul 12, 2013 2:32 pm

So after recently being talked into retaking the LSAT (view that thread at viewtopic.php?f=9&t=212917&start=0), I need some advice. Let me know if I should be posting in a different forum.

I recently got engaged and we are planning the wedding (4/25/14). My fiancee does not understand the importance of the school you attend and how much the LSAT has on getting in. She also does not understand the shape of the legal market and how difficult it can be to get a good job post law school. In her mind I am fine with going to U. of San Diego and finding a six figure job in San Diego (this is where we would like to end up living) and not being buried by debt.

What I am looking for is something that succinctly explains the importance of the school you go to, the debt load, the career options based off the school you attend, etc. I have found the data in various places, but I doubt she will want to sit down and explore TLS with me. Can anyone point me to some good articles that explain all this, or one or two good threads on TLS that will cover all that? Also, any advice or discussion on dealing with SO's during LSAT prep and law school is welcome.

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t-14orbust
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Re: Retake in October- Fiancee Advice

Postby t-14orbust » Fri Jul 12, 2013 2:33 pm

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Last edited by t-14orbust on Mon Aug 05, 2013 8:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.

WanderingPondering
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Re: Retake in October- Fiancee Advice

Postby WanderingPondering » Fri Jul 12, 2013 2:43 pm

If she's unwilling to have an adult conversation and listen to you now, I'm sure she will when you are married.

littlegiant
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Re: Retake in October- Fiancee Advice

Postby littlegiant » Fri Jul 12, 2013 2:50 pm

http://www.lstscorereports.com/?r=ca

That would be about the best place to go I think. Show her the hard statistics, and then show her a place with (relatively) good statistics, and then let her know what LSAT you need to get into there. 0L and not married, but thats what I would do

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RuleSubstitution
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Re: Retake in October- Fiancee Advice

Postby RuleSubstitution » Fri Jul 12, 2013 3:52 pm

Your word isn't good enough for her?

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bizzybone1313
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Re: Retake in October- Fiancee Advice

Postby bizzybone1313 » Fri Jul 12, 2013 4:14 pm

Very few people besides us understand this. I just rather not have the conversation with people. A lot of times you almost have to indirectly bash their TTT undergrad by saying you are shooting for the stars in terms of elite law schools. Some of these peeps are just haters. Your success is their failure. Their failure to graduate Magna Cum Laude from undergrad. Their failure to have ambition like you do. A lot people just cannot stand knowing someone that is much more successful than them. I cannot stand these type of people and try to get as far away as I can from them.

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SteelPenguin
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Re: Retake in October- Fiancee Advice

Postby SteelPenguin » Fri Jul 12, 2013 6:31 pm

lucabrasi09 wrote:So after recently being talked into retaking the LSAT (view that thread at viewtopic.php?f=9&t=212917&start=0), I need some advice. Let me know if I should be posting in a different forum.

I recently got engaged and we are planning the wedding (4/25/14). My fiancee does not understand the importance of the school you attend and how much the LSAT has on getting in. She also does not understand the shape of the legal market and how difficult it can be to get a good job post law school. In her mind I am fine with going to U. of San Diego and finding a six figure job in San Diego (this is where we would like to end up living) and not being buried by debt.

What I am looking for is something that succinctly explains the importance of the school you go to, the debt load, the career options based off the school you attend, etc. I have found the data in various places, but I doubt she will want to sit down and explore TLS with me. Can anyone point me to some good articles that explain all this, or one or two good threads on TLS that will cover all that? Also, any advice or discussion on dealing with SO's during LSAT prep and law school is welcome.


Print out USD's LST report and then Cal Berkeley or another T14s LST report. Show her unemployment, underemployment, and large firm scores. I've used this to explain to family why I delayed, and it was easier than I expected.

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A. Nony Mouse
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Re: Retake in October- Fiancee Advice

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Fri Jul 12, 2013 6:36 pm

bizzybone1313 wrote:Very few people besides us understand this. I just rather not have the conversation with people. A lot of times you almost have to indirectly bash their TTT undergrad by saying you are shooting for the stars in terms of elite law schools. Some of these peeps are just haters. Your success is their failure. Their failure to graduate Magna Cum Laude from undergrad. Their failure to have ambition like you do. A lot people just cannot stand knowing someone that is much more successful than them. I cannot stand these type of people and try to get as far away as I can from them.

Did you miss the part where the person he's trying to explain this to is his fiancee? And if not, how is the above remotely relevant?

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JamMasterJ
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Re: Retake in October- Fiancee Advice

Postby JamMasterJ » Fri Jul 12, 2013 7:23 pm


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bizzybone1313
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Re: Retake in October- Fiancee Advice

Postby bizzybone1313 » Fri Jul 12, 2013 7:32 pm

A. Nony Mouse wrote:
bizzybone1313 wrote:Very few people besides us understand this. I just rather not have the conversation with people. A lot of times you almost have to indirectly bash their TTT undergrad by saying you are shooting for the stars in terms of elite law schools. Some of these peeps are just haters. Your success is their failure. Their failure to graduate Magna Cum Laude from undergrad. Their failure to have ambition like you do. A lot people just cannot stand knowing someone that is much more successful than them. I cannot stand these type of people and try to get as far away as I can from them.

Did you miss the part where the person he's trying to explain this to is his fiancee? And if not, how is the above remotely relevant?


No, I did not miss that part. Did you miss the main point of my paragraph? The main point is that very few people outside of individuals applying to law school understand the importance of the LSAT. His fiancee apparently is in this group. I never said she herself is a hater.

sighsigh
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Re: Retake in October- Fiancee Advice

Postby sighsigh » Fri Jul 12, 2013 8:27 pm

RuleSubstitution wrote:Your word isn't good enough for her?


+1. Just tell her the raw facts (50% unemployed and only ~5% making six figures or whatever it is). With facts that bad, I don't see how she can chalk it up to being overly pessimistic or something.

kiyoku
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Re: Retake in October- Fiancee Advice

Postby kiyoku » Fri Jul 12, 2013 11:42 pm

I find it always useful to approach the situation without a mindset that wants to come to the conclusion immediately. This usually just makes the person want to defend their irrational viewpoint.

I were you I would tell my fiance that I want to talk to her about law school related stuff and that I've been doing some research which makes me believe that it's really worth the time to do even more research.

Then i would give it a week and then have the conversation. This way, it's rather likely that you had done research in the week, and rather likely that she hadn't done any research. She's ready to hear your research and since you had a two part process, it seems a lot more prepared than talking to the person randomly over breakfast.

Then comes facts. Your goals. And key point: how this would affect (strengthen) your relationship.

But all things aside, if you're patient, things will bend your way. I really like that you decided to retake. keep it up!

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A. Nony Mouse
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Re: Retake in October- Fiancee Advice

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Sat Jul 13, 2013 12:03 am

bizzybone1313 wrote:
A. Nony Mouse wrote:
bizzybone1313 wrote:Very few people besides us understand this. I just rather not have the conversation with people. A lot of times you almost have to indirectly bash their TTT undergrad by saying you are shooting for the stars in terms of elite law schools. Some of these peeps are just haters. Your success is their failure. Their failure to graduate Magna Cum Laude from undergrad. Their failure to have ambition like you do. A lot people just cannot stand knowing someone that is much more successful than them. I cannot stand these type of people and try to get as far away as I can from them.

Did you miss the part where the person he's trying to explain this to is his fiancee? And if not, how is the above remotely relevant?


No, I did not miss that part. Did you miss the main point of my paragraph? The main point is that very few people outside of individuals applying to law school understand the importance of the LSAT. His fiancee apparently is in this group. I never said she herself is a hater.

And again, how is this relevant to the OP?

edwardt1988
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Re: Retake in October- Fiancee Advice

Postby edwardt1988 » Mon Jul 15, 2013 12:24 am

Retake? (On the fiancee front)

Other than that, I've explained many times to people why I didn't wanna go to a T1 this year, and I retook instead. Showed data, but some people just refuse to understand

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rftdd888
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Re: Retake in October- Fiancee Advice

Postby rftdd888 » Mon Jul 15, 2013 2:15 am

this is your wife. you need to get her on the same page with you, man! all that matters is that you know what you need to do. tell her what you need to do. if she has questions, answer them. but you need to be firm. remember, be fair to everyone else but most importantly be fair to yourself. if you need space for prep, you need to take your space. if you need to pursue a top 20 school, that is what you need to do. good luck.

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Clearly
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Re: Retake in October- Fiancee Advice

Postby Clearly » Mon Jul 15, 2013 2:38 am

1) Show her LST
2) Tell her to let you decide your own future, or find a wife who takes your word when discussing things you know more about than her.

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SteelPenguin
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Re: Retake in October- Fiancee Advice

Postby SteelPenguin » Mon Jul 15, 2013 9:47 am

Put the relationship on hold until post LSAT?

lucabrasi09
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Re: Retake in October- Fiancee Advice

Postby lucabrasi09 » Mon Jul 15, 2013 12:06 pm

kiyoku wrote:I find it always useful to approach the situation without a mindset that wants to come to the conclusion immediately. This usually just makes the person want to defend their irrational viewpoint.

I were you I would tell my fiance that I want to talk to her about law school related stuff and that I've been doing some research which makes me believe that it's really worth the time to do even more research.

Then i would give it a week and then have the conversation. This way, it's rather likely that you had done research in the week, and rather likely that she hadn't done any research. She's ready to hear your research and since you had a two part process, it seems a lot more prepared than talking to the person randomly over breakfast.

Then comes facts. Your goals. And key point: how this would affect (strengthen) your relationship.

But all things aside, if you're patient, things will bend your way. I really like that you decided to retake. keep it up!


Well I definitely underestimated my wife to be. I had the initial discussion last weekend about retaking and the benefits and since she did not seem to like the idea of me studying again for the next two months I assumed she was not on board. We were home with her parents this weekend and she brought up to them I was planning on retaking and why it was such a good idea. Caught me by surprise to say the least. Although I think showing her the Jones Day salary page definitely helped. Anyways, I showed her more of the numbers from lsn and the other sites you all recommended and e talked about how time consuming law school will be and how hard the next few years will be and we are on the same page.

Thanks for the advice everyone!




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