Experimental section always before the break?

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ScottRiqui
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Experimental section always before the break?

Postby ScottRiqui » Sun Jul 07, 2013 1:55 pm

It may have been true in the past, but not any more. Looking at my response sheet from June 2013, my graded sections were 1, 2, 3, and 5.

bp shinners
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Re: Experimental section always before the break?

Postby bp shinners » Sun Jul 07, 2013 4:22 pm

ScottRiqui wrote:It may have been true in the past, but not any more. Looking at my response sheet from June 2013, my graded sections were 1, 2, 3, and 5.


If that's the case, it would be the second time it's happened.

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ScottRiqui
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Re: Experimental section always before the break?

Postby ScottRiqui » Sun Jul 07, 2013 4:34 pm

bp shinners wrote:
ScottRiqui wrote:It may have been true in the past, but not any more. Looking at my response sheet from June 2013, my graded sections were 1, 2, 3, and 5.


If that's the case, it would be the second time it's happened.


I doubt seriously that there's any arrangement of graded sections that's only happened *twice* on the LSAT. Maybe I'm just the second person with a post-break experimental section to post about it?

My June test was LR-LG-LR-LR-RC. The column headings on my IRR are "Section 1", "Section 2", "Section 3", and "Section 5", making my post-break LR section the experimental.

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Jeffort
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Re: Experimental section always before the break?

Postby Jeffort » Sun Jul 07, 2013 5:16 pm

ScottRiqui wrote:
bp shinners wrote:
ScottRiqui wrote:It may have been true in the past, but not any more. Looking at my response sheet from June 2013, my graded sections were 1, 2, 3, and 5.


If that's the case, it would be the second time it's happened.


I doubt seriously that there's any arrangement of graded sections that's only happened *twice* on the LSAT. Maybe I'm just the second person with a post-break experimental section to post about it?

My June test was LR-LG-LR-LR-RC. The column headings on my IRR are "Section 1", "Section 2", "Section 3", and "Section 5", making my post-break LR section the experimental.


Given your section breakdown it's true that the June test is only the second time in modern LSAT history that the experimental section for regular test takers on a disclosed test has been after the break. October 2011 was the first time regular test takers had the experimental section after the break.

It has nothing to do with how many people did or didn't post about it. People in the prep biz like myself and Shinners pay attention to and keep track of this type of stuff beyond student rumors and what is posted on TLS.

Also, just so people know, the experimental section number is not the same for everyone anymore, meaning that other people that took the June test might have had the experimental in a different place than section four.

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ScottRiqui
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Re: Experimental section always before the break?

Postby ScottRiqui » Sun Jul 07, 2013 5:22 pm

Jeffort wrote:
ScottRiqui wrote:
bp shinners wrote:
ScottRiqui wrote:It may have been true in the past, but not any more. Looking at my response sheet from June 2013, my graded sections were 1, 2, 3, and 5.


If that's the case, it would be the second time it's happened.


I doubt seriously that there's any arrangement of graded sections that's only happened *twice* on the LSAT. Maybe I'm just the second person with a post-break experimental section to post about it?

My June test was LR-LG-LR-LR-RC. The column headings on my IRR are "Section 1", "Section 2", "Section 3", and "Section 5", making my post-break LR section the experimental.


Given your section breakdown it's true that the June test is only the second time in modern LSAT history that the experimental section for regular test takers on a disclosed test has been after the break. October 2011 was the first time regular test takers had the experimental section after the break.

It has nothing to do with how many people did or didn't post about it. People in the prep biz like myself and Shinners pay attention to and keep track of this type of stuff beyond student rumors and what is posted on TLS.

Also, just so people know, the experimental section number is not the same for everyone, meaning that other people that took the June test might have had the experimental in a different place than section four.


Ah, I misunderstood bp shinner's post - I thought he was saying that my specific exam would be only the second time it's ever happened, and that if you compiled a list of every person who's ever had a post-break experimental section, the list would be "Scottriqui" and one other person.

June 2013 being only the second administration where it's happened makes much more sense - thanks. Just out of curiosity, do you get some kind of report from LSAC as to what the possible experimental locations for a particular administration were? I'm just asking because you sounded very confident that it never occurred post-break between October 2011 and June 2013.

And yes, I realize that not everyone gets their experimental section in the same place. I was only posting because I've heard the "experimental only happens before the break" assertion fairly recently here, and by dumb luck, I had to opportunity to positively refute it.

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Jeffort
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Re: Experimental section always before the break?

Postby Jeffort » Sun Jul 07, 2013 5:55 pm

ScottRiqui wrote:
Ah, I misunderstood bp shinner's post - I thought he was saying that my specific exam would be only the second time it's ever happened, and that if you compiled a list of every person who's ever had a post-break experimental section, the list would be "Scottriqui" and one other person.

June 2013 being only the second administration where it's happened makes much more sense - thanks. Just out of curiosity, do you get some kind of report from LSAC as to what the possible experimental locations for a particular administration were? I'm just asking because you sounded very confident that it never occurred post-break between October 2011 and June 2013.

And yes, I realize that not everyone gets their experimental section in the same place. I was only posting because I've heard the "experimental only happens before the break" assertion fairly recently here, and by dumb luck, I had to opportunity to positively refute it.


ha ha about the misunderstanding. No, LSAC didn't single you and just one other poor soul out to ambush with an experimental section four!

Unfortunately no, LSAC doesn't send a report to prep companies/teachers/tutors about where the experimental section was placed. It would be nice if they did, but LSAC doesn't want to make things easy to figure out regarding experimental section placement. The information is gathered by prep biz people/companies from students after each administration based on self reports of section order plus the information on the IRR (the sheet you are looking at that lists your scored section numbers) once scores are released in order to verify what actually occurred.

It doesn't take that many IRR score reports from different students for a particular administration to determine after the fact the different orders the scored sections were administered in and which section numbers were used for experimental sections. (after every administration people apply for teaching jobs with prep companies and supply their score report, plus some students supply their score report after having taken a class, so some prep companies get a big enough sample of score reports from each administration to figure it out)

LSAC started mixing things up from how things were previously done with placement of the experimental section in June 2007 when they started having it in a different section number for different people on the same administration. October 2011 was when they threw in the new twist of the experimental not always being before the break and was the only reported and verified instance of an after the break experimental section until this administration (not including Feb tests since nothing about the sections is released with scores so it could have occurred and we just don't know).

LSAC most likely made these changes to make it as hard as possible for test takers to reliably figure out which section is experimental not only during the test, but also before scores are released during the post test cancellation period.

If you want to read a detailed description about experimental section placement, this one is pretty comprehensive:
http://www.powerscore.com/lsat/help/experimental.cfm

lalalany
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Re: Experimental section always before the break?

Postby lalalany » Sun Jul 07, 2013 11:42 pm

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