Unofficial LSAT tutors thread

User avatar
cahwc12
Posts: 941
Joined: Mon Jul 02, 2012 4:49 pm

Unofficial LSAT tutors thread

Postby cahwc12 » Sat Jun 22, 2013 7:07 am

I made a post in another thread about someone hopefully starting one of these because there are a lot of tutors on this site (probably due to there being a disproportionate number of high scorers). Let this thread be a place to ask each other questions, since most of us are not in direct competition. Please don't make it an overt ploy for services, but rather a place to just discuss tutoring strategies and experiences.

------

I just picked up a new student who I'm meeting with next week, and he mentioned that he has McGraw Hill's LSAT 2013. Typically I always start by reviewing a diagnostic and then diving into some basic sequencing games. I'm curious though if anyone has any experience with this book. Might it be useful for the full-length PTs, or should I just have him chuck it altogether?

What I don't want to happen is he start using that book for their strategies because I have no idea whether or not they are any good, and I'm inclined to think they are probably not.

What do you guys typically do on an initial session?

Reframe
Posts: 78
Joined: Wed Jun 12, 2013 5:45 am

Re: Unofficial LSAT tutors thread

Postby Reframe » Sat Jun 22, 2013 12:12 pm

It's an awful book and the tests are "homemade" and not at all representative of the real thing, if I remember correctly.

User avatar
steel_shot
Posts: 116
Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2012 5:35 pm

Re: Unofficial LSAT tutors thread

Postby steel_shot » Sat Jun 22, 2013 2:13 pm

Not a tutor, but I'd recommend that you pick your favourite few books that you teach with. Maybe even a quick write up of the materials you need and send it to the students?

User avatar
cahwc12
Posts: 941
Joined: Mon Jul 02, 2012 4:49 pm

Re: Unofficial LSAT tutors thread

Postby cahwc12 » Sat Jun 22, 2013 2:21 pm

Reframe wrote:It's an awful book and the tests are "homemade" and not at all representative of the real thing, if I remember correctly.


Gross... I'll let him know, thanks.

User avatar
LSAT Hacks (Graeme)
Posts: 371
Joined: Wed May 30, 2012 9:18 pm

Re: Unofficial LSAT tutors thread

Postby LSAT Hacks (Graeme) » Tue Jun 25, 2013 12:03 am

I have my students throw away any books that don't use real LSAT questions, which include McGraw-Hill.

There are better books. Using the wrong book can be harmful, given that non-LSAT questions are not representative of the complexity of the test.

User avatar
LSAT Blog
Posts: 1262
Joined: Mon Dec 07, 2009 9:24 pm

Re: Unofficial LSAT tutors thread

Postby LSAT Blog » Tue Jun 25, 2013 12:21 pm

Good stuff. I just added it to the list of books to avoid:

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=210051

User avatar
LSAT Hacks (Graeme)
Posts: 371
Joined: Wed May 30, 2012 9:18 pm

Re: Unofficial LSAT tutors thread

Postby LSAT Hacks (Graeme) » Sat Jun 29, 2013 12:01 am

Fellow tutors, what kind of notes do you guys take for RC, if any? Students often ask me what I do. My passages are just blank. A few of my higher scoring students have said the same.

My suspicion is that once you get good enough you often don't need to annotate as much or at all. Or, more controversially, not annotating makes you better.

User avatar
NoodleyOne
Posts: 2358
Joined: Fri May 25, 2012 7:32 pm

Re: Unofficial LSAT tutors thread

Postby NoodleyOne » Sat Jun 29, 2013 3:31 pm

Graeme (Hacking the LSAT) wrote:Fellow tutors, what kind of notes do you guys take for RC, if any? Students often ask me what I do. My passages are just blank. A few of my higher scoring students have said the same.

My suspicion is that once you get good enough you often don't need to annotate as much or at all. Or, more controversially, not annotating makes you better.

I don't annotate at all, but I tend to tell my students to do some light annotations just to keep the overall passage in context. I definitely think that left on their own, most students over-annotate, and this costs them valuable time.

Reframe
Posts: 78
Joined: Wed Jun 12, 2013 5:45 am

Re: Unofficial LSAT tutors thread

Postby Reframe » Sat Jun 29, 2013 3:46 pm

When I took the test, I wrote a couple words next to each paragraph just to keep it clear what it covered and to help elucidate the structure of the passage. This is no longer necessary for me and I think anything more than this is counterproductive.

User avatar
cahwc12
Posts: 941
Joined: Mon Jul 02, 2012 4:49 pm

Re: Unofficial LSAT tutors thread

Postby cahwc12 » Sun Jun 30, 2013 8:47 am

Graeme (Hacking the LSAT) wrote:Fellow tutors, what kind of notes do you guys take for RC, if any? Students often ask me what I do. My passages are just blank. A few of my higher scoring students have said the same.

My suspicion is that once you get good enough you often don't need to annotate as much or at all. Or, more controversially, not annotating makes you better.


I've recommended a regimen of doing every RC section for my newest student, divided however he likes but to make sure he does them on a consistent basis. Too many people fail to improve on RC because they just table it, thinking it's the most difficult section to improve on--and then it just becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. RC strategy itself is pretty straightforward, probably the most of the three sections, but execution requires essentially browbeating your brain into acceptance on how exactly to read each block of text. And once you start to 'get it', you get it.

Annotation is largely a crutch I agree, but if it helps initially, I don't think it's the worst habit to get into, but the goal should be to outgrow it.

sasquatchsam
Posts: 184
Joined: Tue Apr 02, 2013 7:51 pm

Re: Unofficial LSAT tutors thread

Postby sasquatchsam » Sun Jun 30, 2013 9:10 am

I just picked up a new student who I'm meeting with next week, and he mentioned that he has McGraw Hill's LSAT 2013. Typically I always start by reviewing a diagnostic and then diving into some basic sequencing games. I'm curious though if anyone has any experience with this book. Might it be useful for the full-length PTs, or should I just have him chuck it altogether?


I am not a tutor but I have used McGraw Hill's LG guide. It was the first thing I studied when prepping for the LSAT because I had a free copy someone gave to me. It was actually pretty good as far as presenting how to solve LG except that it contains errors in the practice questions. Maybe that makes it better though because you have to figure out what they did wrong :D That being said, if their practice tests are as full of errors as the LG guide, I would throw it away (or have fun and see how many errors you can spot).

User avatar
LSAT Hacks (Graeme)
Posts: 371
Joined: Wed May 30, 2012 9:18 pm

Re: Unofficial LSAT tutors thread

Postby LSAT Hacks (Graeme) » Tue Jul 16, 2013 5:15 pm

Interesting RC replies guys. I suspected that many high scorers take little to none.

I'm the moderator of Reddit's LSAT forum. Recently, someone has started posting logic games he made in the subreddit. What are your thoughts on the usefulness of such games:

http://www.reddit.com/r/LSAT/comments/1 ... _grouping/

I'm asking, because my instinct is not to allow them. I tried one, it feels different. I think there are enough real logic games to not need supplements.

But, he's getting some upvotes from community members, so I wanted to check my intuition with you guys before taking any final action.

I think this thread is a very useful idea.

User avatar
NoodleyOne
Posts: 2358
Joined: Fri May 25, 2012 7:32 pm

Re: Unofficial LSAT tutors thread

Postby NoodleyOne » Tue Jul 16, 2013 5:54 pm

I'd say a big ol it depends. If they're on a three to six month schedule, there are more than enough real games. If they're taking a longer time, logic is logic and games shouldn't hurt, but they may be of limited help. Also, since retaking games isn't a bad thing, I'm probably inclined to agree with you.

User avatar
LSAT Hacks (Graeme)
Posts: 371
Joined: Wed May 30, 2012 9:18 pm

Re: Unofficial LSAT tutors thread

Postby LSAT Hacks (Graeme) » Tue Jul 16, 2013 8:15 pm

The forum is for general users, most of whom are taking it for the first time. I feel like allowing it will encourage bad practices.

User avatar
Jeffort
Posts: 1896
Joined: Wed Jun 18, 2008 4:43 pm

Re: Unofficial LSAT tutors thread

Postby Jeffort » Tue Jul 16, 2013 9:15 pm

As an administrator of another LSAT forum I wouldn't delete or prohibit someone from posting fake games they wrote simply because I don't believe in censoring or limiting relevant on topic discussions on forums.

As an instructor and LSAT tutor I would post a big warning/disclaimer with them/in the threads they are posted in advising students not to use them for anything other than a fun diversion when they have free time to kill that wouldn't otherwise be used for LSAT prep using real test questions. Along with the warning I'd explain that non authentic/simulated LSAT games are not useful for getting better at LSAT games because they are not written to test the various different types of logical relationships and available deductions in the same ways with the same patterns seen in real LSAT games and therefore do not help people get a better feel for the common patterns, types of relationships and appropriate strategies that commonly lead to correct answers.

User avatar
cahwc12
Posts: 941
Joined: Mon Jul 02, 2012 4:49 pm

Re: Unofficial LSAT tutors thread

Postby cahwc12 » Fri Aug 23, 2013 3:58 pm

For those of you who receive payments for online tutoring, what is your preferred medium of exchange? I've always used Paypal, but I've been looking into other services. I've been looking at amazon webpay but have never known anyone to use it.

Any recommendations?



Graeme (Hacking the LSAT) wrote:Interesting RC replies guys. I suspected that many high scorers take little to none.

I'm the moderator of Reddit's LSAT forum. Recently, someone has started posting logic games he made in the subreddit. What are your thoughts on the usefulness of such games:

http://www.reddit.com/r/LSAT/comments/1 ... _grouping/

I'm asking, because my instinct is not to allow them. I tried one, it feels different. I think there are enough real logic games to not need supplements.

But, he's getting some upvotes from community members, so I wanted to check my intuition with you guys before taking any final action.

I think this thread is a very useful idea.


I would probably make a moderator note of it, but otherwise let them remain. I agree that custom games are largely silly. Even the Manhattan LSAT ones, which I think are great, I still wouldn't recommend for anyone unless they have utterly exhausted the actual LSAT games.

Daily_Double
Posts: 1035
Joined: Tue Dec 04, 2012 8:45 pm

Re: Unofficial LSAT tutors thread

Postby Daily_Double » Fri Dec 06, 2013 10:13 pm

.
Last edited by Daily_Double on Fri Dec 13, 2013 6:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
cahwc12
Posts: 941
Joined: Mon Jul 02, 2012 4:49 pm

Re: Unofficial LSAT tutors thread

Postby cahwc12 » Sat Dec 07, 2013 9:38 am

I've only ever taught 1-on-1, but typically if I'm reviewing a PT with a student, I'll just ask which one it is, and then have a previously worked/reviewed copy on hand to go over it with them. I've taken all the PTs, and most of the new ones multiple times, so there isn't anything I haven't seen before (although it's likely I won't recall it). That said, since it's best to stress the methodology anyway, I'll just ask them to pick any questions they missed and/or want to look at. If it's a game, we'll go through the setup and then any specific question. If it's a passage they really struggled with, we'll take 2-3 minutes to read the passage, and then walk through whichever questions they missed.

When my students are just working on games, I work mostly out of the cambridge packets and encourage them to purchase them. I printed up and bound a book of all the cambridge packets when I was originally studying, and I recorded all my times, mistakes, etc in there. So when I'm looking for a game to recommend out of the packet, I'll intentionally pick one that took me a low time to complete (and I don't try to hide this fact), or I'll look at the setups and pick one that encapsulates a particular concept I'm trying to convey.

When it's LR, I take a similar approach, and with RC, it's the same as above (each take 2-3 minutes to read the passage, then talk out the decision-making process for the questions together).

One thing I've found very helpful is to pick some games/LR/RC/etc that are great for first-time students. I have a canned LG and LR packet that I use with my students who have no or very limited prior exposure to the test.

User avatar
EarlCat
Posts: 610
Joined: Mon Mar 12, 2007 4:04 pm

Re: Unofficial LSAT tutors thread

Postby EarlCat » Sat Dec 07, 2013 9:55 pm

cahwc12 wrote:I would probably make a moderator note of it, but otherwise let them remain. I agree that custom games are largely silly. Even the Manhattan LSAT ones, which I think are great, I still wouldn't recommend for anyone unless they have utterly exhausted the actual LSAT games.


I find the idea of exhausting games ridiculous. The bigger problem for me has always been to get students to repeat the games they have often enough.

User avatar
EarlCat
Posts: 610
Joined: Mon Mar 12, 2007 4:04 pm

Re: Unofficial LSAT tutors thread

Postby EarlCat » Sat Dec 07, 2013 9:57 pm

Question for the group - is there a retail-available curriculum out there that has already divided preptest questions in to categories? For instance, a section of all sequencing games, another of all in/out games, etc.

User avatar
cahwc12
Posts: 941
Joined: Mon Jul 02, 2012 4:49 pm

Re: Unofficial LSAT tutors thread

Postby cahwc12 » Mon Dec 09, 2013 8:22 pm

EarlCat wrote:
cahwc12 wrote:I would probably make a moderator note of it, but otherwise let them remain. I agree that custom games are largely silly. Even the Manhattan LSAT ones, which I think are great, I still wouldn't recommend for anyone unless they have utterly exhausted the actual LSAT games.


I find the idea of exhausting games ridiculous. The bigger problem for me has always been to get students to repeat the games they have often enough.


Yeah, but utterly, I mean having repeated them all several times and wanting extra, fresh games to look at. I highly encourage repeating as well, although I think few of my students actually do.


By the second question, are you referring to something other than the cambridge LSAT packets? I recommend those pretty much exclusively. The only time I use anything else is when a student had already purchased another prep course/supplement and it has a collection of appropriately sorted questions in it.

User avatar
EarlCat
Posts: 610
Joined: Mon Mar 12, 2007 4:04 pm

Re: Unofficial LSAT tutors thread

Postby EarlCat » Fri Dec 13, 2013 12:04 pm

cahwc12 wrote:Yeah, but utterly, I mean having repeated them all several times and wanting extra, fresh games to look at. I highly encourage repeating as well, although I think few of my students actually do.

Meh. I studied or taught LSAT questions almost daily from April 2005 to August 2008 and never felt that I had exhausted my supply of games--and there have been 5 years worth of new prep tests since then.

cahwc12 wrote:By the second question, are you referring to something other than the cambridge LSAT packets? I recommend those pretty much exclusively. The only time I use anything else is when a student had already purchased another prep course/supplement and it has a collection of appropriately sorted questions in it.

Thanks. I'll take a look at the Cambridge stuff. I think they were just coming out around the time I left for law school, so I've never bothered to take a look.

03152016
Posts: 9189
Joined: Wed Dec 21, 2011 3:14 am

Re: Unofficial LSAT tutors thread

Postby 03152016 » Thu Dec 26, 2013 9:23 pm

.
Last edited by 03152016 on Tue Mar 15, 2016 6:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
cahwc12
Posts: 941
Joined: Mon Jul 02, 2012 4:49 pm

Re: Unofficial LSAT tutors thread

Postby cahwc12 » Sun Feb 16, 2014 5:25 pm

I'm in a market with T3 schools only, so I think my 'business' probably doesn't fit the mold. Most of it consists of getting new students a few weeks before any given LSAT administration and doing my best to convince them during those couple weeks that they should wait and take it at the next administration (or even later), and in some cases to just not go to law school.



On another note, how do you all deal with delinquent payments? I had a student I tutored several times with no issues, but this last time before the February test, he said beforehand that he wouldn't necessarily be able to pay immediately. I said that was fine since we had a history, and most of the time in online situations my students forget ("forget") to pay immediately and it usually takes a few days.

Well it has been nearly a month and he has been MIA. Thoughts?

User avatar
Pneumonia
Posts: 1642
Joined: Sun Jul 29, 2012 3:05 pm

Re: Unofficial LSAT tutors thread

Postby Pneumonia » Sun Feb 16, 2014 6:45 pm

Getting them to write a check and then text you when it's funded can work. Not foolproof but it's better than a simple verbal commitment.




Return to “LSAT Prep and Discussion Forum”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: bearedman8, cianchetta0, Greenteachurro, legirl12le, proteinshake, WeightliftingThinker and 12 guests