The Official June 2014 Study Group

rebexness
Posts: 4163
Joined: Sun Jan 09, 2011 6:24 am

Re: The Official June 2014 Study Group

Postby rebexness » Tue Apr 01, 2014 12:17 am

santoki wrote:
rebexness wrote:
santoki wrote:i know this is the wrong forum, but people ITT seem to be more chill than those in other boards. just a quick question- when will we know what the new GPA/LSAT medians/percentiles are for the new rankings?


They were released in September. Class of 2017 data.


after a ton of searching, im guessing (hoping) you mean the c/o 2016 data released in august?

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc ... XZnc#gid=0


Lol, yes. 2016 (this years 1Ls)

User avatar
santoki
Posts: 867
Joined: Mon Oct 28, 2013 5:19 pm

Re: The Official June 2014 Study Group

Postby santoki » Tue Apr 01, 2014 12:27 am

givemea180 wrote:
180kickflip wrote:
jaylawyer09 wrote:
givemea180 wrote:So if I don't get at least a 170 in June I'm retaking. Posting g here for the extra accountability. Anyone else have a hard number cutoff for a retake?


same, 170 for me.


Same. But I'll def. be happy with anything 167+


It will be really hard to put the effort into retaking if I'm only a few points short


may we settle for nothing less than our best

bleakchimera2
Posts: 48
Joined: Sun Mar 02, 2014 1:18 pm

Re: The Official June 2014 Study Group

Postby bleakchimera2 » Tue Apr 01, 2014 8:30 am

givemea180 wrote:So if I don't get at least a 170 in June I'm retaking. Posting g here for the extra accountability. Anyone else have a hard number cutoff for a retake?


172 for me, I think. Which basically means, yes. I'm retaking. Very little doubt in my mind hahaha. Also, I'm not positive that I wouldn't feel pressure to retake even with a 172. The paranoia is strong. Lol

User avatar
BillPackets
Posts: 2159
Joined: Sat Feb 08, 2014 5:56 pm

Re: The Official June 2014 Study Group

Postby BillPackets » Tue Apr 01, 2014 11:00 am

Can anyone help me out with a sufficient assumption question? Having trouble understanding how the correct answer is sufficient, and also a little unclear as to the wording of the answer.

PT14-S2-Q13

User avatar
WaltGrace83
Posts: 719
Joined: Fri Apr 12, 2013 5:55 pm

Re: The Official June 2014 Study Group

Postby WaltGrace83 » Tue Apr 01, 2014 11:14 am

BillPackets wrote:Can anyone help me out with a sufficient assumption question? Having trouble understanding how the correct answer is sufficient, and also a little unclear as to the wording of the answer.

PT14-S2-Q13


I gotcha. Give me a second to write up a response.

User avatar
WaltGrace83
Posts: 719
Joined: Fri Apr 12, 2013 5:55 pm

Re: The Official June 2014 Study Group

Postby WaltGrace83 » Tue Apr 01, 2014 11:25 am

The number of words for colors varies from language to language

Speakers of languages that have fewer basic words for colors than English must be unable to distinguish as many colors as English can distinguish

So the first part of the stimulus is really just gravy. It is just providing an example and isn't all that much of a concern to us. However, thinking about during review can certainly give you a hint as what the gap in the argument is. This is a sufficient assumption question, there has to be a gap. In addition, this gap has to make the conclusion absolutely 100% properly drawn - no if's and's or but's. Can we really say that having a different number of words means having a different perception of those colors? Maybe. But in LSAT land - no. I'll give you an example. I studied abroad in Italy. What we call "blue" is very different from what Italians call "blu." In Italy, "blu" is navy blue - very dark. In America, "blue" is lighter - like the sky. The "blue" that we know is called "celeste" in the Italian language. Thus, Italians have two different words for "blue:" these are "celeste" and "blu." Can they distinguish more shades of blue than we can? Absolutely not. They just call it different things.

The gap here is that the argument is assuming that languages actually have words for what they distinguish. If we assume this, then we can say, "yea, if a language has less words (and languages all actually have words for what they can distinguish, then absolutely they cannot distinguish as many colors." This is expressed best in (B). If each language has a different word for each sensory quality that its speakers can distinguish, then the conclusion MUST follow.

Let's look at the others...

(A) Out of scope. Who cares? What does this have to do with colors? This is tempting if you misunderstood the core.

(C) "Some." Ohhhhh in an SA question that is a very mischievous word. Can we make the conclusion absolutely 100% follow from this? Nope. The categorical distinction could be something completely unrelated to colors.

(D) "Frequently used" is something that we don't know about and is something that we cannot assume is being talked about. Also, just because it is "important" doesn't make the conclusion follow. We are talking numbers here! We want the gap between the NUMBER of words and NUMBER of things perceptible.

(E) What the hell? This just makes no sense in the context of the stimulus.

User avatar
WaltGrace83
Posts: 719
Joined: Fri Apr 12, 2013 5:55 pm

Re: The Official June 2014 Study Group

Postby WaltGrace83 » Tue Apr 01, 2014 11:27 am

What was your process for this question? What did you pick? Why?

User avatar
BillPackets
Posts: 2159
Joined: Sat Feb 08, 2014 5:56 pm

Re: The Official June 2014 Study Group

Postby BillPackets » Tue Apr 01, 2014 11:39 am

WaltGrace83 wrote:What was your process for this question? What did you pick? Why?


I picked C and that was mostly a guess. I see the gap on the logic much more clearly now that you explained it, but also the phrase "sensory quality" tripped me up in the answer choices. I thought "what does a sensory quality have to do with distinguishing languages?" But since I didn't fully see the gap, that answer choice especially made little sense to me.

Thank you for that response. It was very helpful.

User avatar
WaltGrace83
Posts: 719
Joined: Fri Apr 12, 2013 5:55 pm

Re: The Official June 2014 Study Group

Postby WaltGrace83 » Tue Apr 01, 2014 11:49 am

BillPackets wrote:
WaltGrace83 wrote:What was your process for this question? What did you pick? Why?


I picked C and that was mostly a guess. I see the gap on the logic much more clearly now that you explained it, but also the phrase "sensory quality" tripped me up in the answer choices. I thought "what does a sensory quality have to do with distinguishing languages?" But since I didn't fully see the gap, that answer choice especially made little sense to me.

Thank you for that response. It was very helpful.


Yea (C) would be a little bit more like (though not actually) a necessary assumption question with the way that it is phrased. The "sensory quality" thing is a little tripping BUT remember that SA questions can be a little bit more broad because they make the conclusion 100% follow. Don't just word match. For example...

Yale professors worked really hard

Yale professors will get a raise this year

A correct answer could look like "Everyone involved in an academic setting who either works hard or does copious amounts of research will get a raise this year, even if that raise is fairly small."

This is a crazy answer that would probably be too crazy for the LSAt but you see my point. There is a lot going on in that answer BUT it still satisfies the premise and makes the conclusion necessarily follow. We know that the Yale professors worked hard. From the SA answer choice, we know that anyone who works hard (or does copious amounts of research) AND is in the academic setting (which includes Yale professors) will get a raise this year.

User avatar
BillPackets
Posts: 2159
Joined: Sat Feb 08, 2014 5:56 pm

Re: The Official June 2014 Study Group

Postby BillPackets » Tue Apr 01, 2014 12:04 pm

WaltGrace83 wrote:
BillPackets wrote:
WaltGrace83 wrote:What was your process for this question? What did you pick? Why?


I picked C and that was mostly a guess. I see the gap on the logic much more clearly now that you explained it, but also the phrase "sensory quality" tripped me up in the answer choices. I thought "what does a sensory quality have to do with distinguishing languages?" But since I didn't fully see the gap, that answer choice especially made little sense to me.

Thank you for that response. It was very helpful.


Yea (C) would be a little bit more like (though not actually) a necessary assumption question with the way that it is phrased. The "sensory quality" thing is a little tripping BUT remember that SA questions can be a little bit more broad because they make the conclusion 100% follow. Don't just word match. For example...

Yale professors worked really hard

Yale professors will get a raise this year

A correct answer could look like "Everyone involved in an academic setting who either works hard or does copious amounts of research will get a raise this year, even if that raise is fairly small."

This is a crazy answer that would probably be too crazy for the LSAt but you see my point. There is a lot going on in that answer BUT it still satisfies the premise and makes the conclusion necessarily follow. We know that the Yale professors worked hard. From the SA answer choice, we know that anyone who works hard (or does copious amounts of research) AND is in the academic setting (which includes Yale professors) will get a raise this year.


That's helpful. I get tripped up sometimes bc I do look for exact word matches and gloss over the fact that correct answer choices can be broader categories of which the conclusion in the stimulus is a subset of. Again, thank you for your response. I've been staring at this question for two days.

User avatar
santoki
Posts: 867
Joined: Mon Oct 28, 2013 5:19 pm

Re: The Official June 2014 Study Group

Postby santoki » Tue Apr 01, 2014 12:41 pm

i havent been this motivated for something in some time now. lets get it!

User avatar
alexrodriguez
Posts: 841
Joined: Wed May 01, 2013 4:59 am

Re: The Official June 2014 Study Group

Postby alexrodriguez » Tue Apr 01, 2014 1:21 pm

PT 36 Completely Reviewed.

Logic Games were a real disappointment. Especially after reviewing them and realizing how easy they were.

The first game in the test is something I'll have to re-do a couple of times. This game and the birds in the forest use to be real simple. I think I've forgotten the basics behind them.

I failed to make simple inferences in the second game which caused me to panic under time.

The third game is apparently the hardest game in the bunch, but it's the only one I was able to do without a problem. It was heavy on rules without too many inferences to be made.

4th Game was rather simple as well.

RC wasn't that bad, but under timed conditions and in a food court with music and chatter it was practically impossible. I need to calm down, read slower, and focus.

LR - I became more knowledgable about Sufficient Assumption questions this test... or was at least reminded of them. Going to have to work a little bit faster. I think I was left with two questions unanswered at the end of each section.

User avatar
alexrodriguez
Posts: 841
Joined: Wed May 01, 2013 4:59 am

Re: The Official June 2014 Study Group

Postby alexrodriguez » Tue Apr 01, 2014 1:23 pm

Anyhow, time for PT 37. I'll blind review it after and do more review of LR and LG from PT 36 later.

rebexness
Posts: 4163
Joined: Sun Jan 09, 2011 6:24 am

Re: The Official June 2014 Study Group

Postby rebexness » Tue Apr 01, 2014 1:39 pm

louierodriguez wrote:Anyhow, time for PT 37. I'll blind review it after and do more review of LR and LG from PT 36 later.


Can I ask why you would want to do another PT if you haven't finished reviewing the first one? How many are you doing per week?

User avatar
WaltGrace83
Posts: 719
Joined: Fri Apr 12, 2013 5:55 pm

Re: The Official June 2014 Study Group

Postby WaltGrace83 » Tue Apr 01, 2014 1:47 pm

rebexness wrote:
louierodriguez wrote:Anyhow, time for PT 37. I'll blind review it after and do more review of LR and LG from PT 36 later.


Can I ask why you would want to do another PT if you haven't finished reviewing the first one? How many are you doing per week?


I am wondering this as well. I may suggest slowing down a bit.

User avatar
myoung7189
Posts: 22
Joined: Mon Aug 13, 2012 9:51 am

Re: The Official June 2014 Study Group

Postby myoung7189 » Tue Apr 01, 2014 2:21 pm

dardardelight wrote:
myoung7189 wrote:


I just took the same exact PT and scored pretty much the same . That 4th circular LG game was killer for me too . I usually get like -6 on RC, but I scored -3 on this one, so I'm with you there. Do you think the RC section for this PT was abnormally easy ? I'd like to think we're just getting better :?


My average for RC is around the same. But, obviously if our score in RC is better on this one test then we are getting better. How dare you introduce any highly relevant data that may detract from our confidence/conclusion? lol

For all you folks wading through the drudgery of drilling like me here is your inspirational and conditional quote of the day:
"Only the doer learns." -Nietzsche

User avatar
santoki
Posts: 867
Joined: Mon Oct 28, 2013 5:19 pm

Re: The Official June 2014 Study Group

Postby santoki » Tue Apr 01, 2014 2:37 pm

For those of you drilling through Cambridge packets, what is your experience with skipping some/most/all of the Level 1 questions for each question type?? Clearly it is a judgment call but I was wondering what you guys think about that.

User avatar
Louis1127
Posts: 817
Joined: Thu Jun 27, 2013 9:12 pm

Re: The Official June 2014 Study Group

Postby Louis1127 » Tue Apr 01, 2014 2:45 pm

santoki wrote:For those of you drilling through Cambridge packets, what is your experience with skipping some/most/all of the Level 1 questions for each question type?? Clearly it is a judgment call but I was wondering what you guys think about that.


I am doing/did them all, but I didn't start out with a real good understanding of LR to begin with, so it made sense for me to do them. But to answer your question, I feel like it helped me get the basics down. If you feel like your basic understanding of LR is a little bit shaky, I'd recommend doing them.

User avatar
Louis1127
Posts: 817
Joined: Thu Jun 27, 2013 9:12 pm

Re: The Official June 2014 Study Group

Postby Louis1127 » Tue Apr 01, 2014 2:49 pm

For those of you who have taken more recent PTs:

Has formal logic completely disappeared (questions where you pretty much have to diagram them) or has it just become less common than it was on old tests? I am drilling PT 1-40 and it seems like half the damn test is formal logic and it makes me think I am wasting my time drilling all these. Any observations on the frequency of formal logic on the more recent tests?

rebexness
Posts: 4163
Joined: Sun Jan 09, 2011 6:24 am

Re: The Official June 2014 Study Group

Postby rebexness » Tue Apr 01, 2014 2:59 pm

santoki wrote:For those of you drilling through Cambridge packets, what is your experience with skipping some/most/all of the Level 1 questions for each question type?? Clearly it is a judgment call but I was wondering what you guys think about that.


With 2 months out I wouldn't be skipping anything. There is literally no downside and you may gain speed which will be super helpful when it comes to the rest of them.

rebexness
Posts: 4163
Joined: Sun Jan 09, 2011 6:24 am

Re: The Official June 2014 Study Group

Postby rebexness » Tue Apr 01, 2014 3:00 pm

Louis1127 wrote:For those of you who have taken more recent PTs:

Has formal logic completely disappeared (questions where you pretty much have to diagram them) or has it just become less common than it was on old tests? I am drilling PT 1-40 and it seems like half the damn test is formal logic and it makes me think I am wasting my time drilling all these. Any observations on the frequency of formal logic on the more recent tests?


I don't know about frequency, but it is definitely still in every LR section, for at least a few questions.

agalfano
Posts: 67
Joined: Tue Aug 06, 2013 7:32 pm

Re: The Official June 2014 Study Group

Postby agalfano » Tue Apr 01, 2014 3:42 pm

Just finished the Flaw section in Manhattan, and I am not as happy or seem as prepared as when I finished other chapters.. Wanted to see if any of you guys had any pointers specific to flaw questions. Here is where I am getting tripped up:

I read the stimulus and I have a good grasp of information. I find the conclusion, I find the premises and I do recognize various flaws. But, when I get to the answer choices, the broad and confusing wording really trips me up. I find a specific flaw and then all of the answers are very broad and honestly pretty confusing. I've seen that its good to pre-phrase my answer, but it has been hard to connect the dots to the right answer. Just looking for some help, thanks!!

User avatar
WaltGrace83
Posts: 719
Joined: Fri Apr 12, 2013 5:55 pm

Re: The Official June 2014 Study Group

Postby WaltGrace83 » Tue Apr 01, 2014 5:00 pm

agalfano wrote:Just finished the Flaw section in Manhattan, and I am not as happy or seem as prepared as when I finished other chapters.. Wanted to see if any of you guys had any pointers specific to flaw questions. Here is where I am getting tripped up:

I read the stimulus and I have a good grasp of information. I find the conclusion, I find the premises and I do recognize various flaws. But, when I get to the answer choices, the broad and confusing wording really trips me up. I find a specific flaw and then all of the answers are very broad and honestly pretty confusing. I've seen that its good to pre-phrase my answer, but it has been hard to connect the dots to the right answer. Just looking for some help, thanks!!


Been there - trust me. A few things to note are that FLAWS, perhaps more so than any other assumption family Q type are all about practice. Once you see the same "vague language" over and over you'll understand what it means (assuming that you actually learn it the first time). IMHO, flaws are some of the easiest Q types because they can only write so many different kinds of flaws. After awhile you start to think "been there - done that." Start posting the vague and confusing language and we'll help you out.

Seriously though, learn what the vague language means (I suggest the Manhattan forums) and after many MANY practice problems you'll begin to have it click. I was confused as shit the first time I did those questions, especially the earliest PTs.

agalfano
Posts: 67
Joined: Tue Aug 06, 2013 7:32 pm

Re: The Official June 2014 Study Group

Postby agalfano » Tue Apr 01, 2014 5:06 pm

Thanks for the quick response WaltGrace!
Since I just finished the Manhattan section, I skimmed over it again for some extra help and began drilling..
This time though, I did 10 questions at a time (timed) and then blind reviewed (for the first time!) and it is already starting to help a little bit... and I completely understand your point, because at first with this vague language I was like "wtf?", but now, with flaw questions instead of pre phrasing the answers in my head specifically, I am doing them in a broad sense. For example, saying to myself "It fails to consider that A is the only cause for B" instead of thinking of things more specifically.

This is a good start, and thanks for the response, but I have a lot more drilling to do with this section considering the Flaws section has 284 questions!! thanks for the insight though i'm hoping to get better at this as I go along!

User avatar
WaltGrace83
Posts: 719
Joined: Fri Apr 12, 2013 5:55 pm

Re: The Official June 2014 Study Group

Postby WaltGrace83 » Tue Apr 01, 2014 5:10 pm

agalfano wrote:Thanks for the quick response WaltGrace!
Since I just finished the Manhattan section, I skimmed over it again for some extra help and began drilling..
This time though, I did 10 questions at a time (timed) and then blind reviewed (for the first time!) and it is already starting to help a little bit... and I completely understand your point, because at first with this vague language I was like "wtf?", but now, with flaw questions instead of pre phrasing the answers in my head specifically, I am doing them in a broad sense. For example, saying to myself "It fails to consider that A is the only cause for B" instead of thinking of things more specifically.

This is a good start, and thanks for the response, but I have a lot more drilling to do with this section considering the Flaws section has 284 questions!! thanks for the insight though i'm hoping to get better at this as I go along!


Blind review always. ALWAYS.




Return to “LSAT Prep and Discussion Forum”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Baidu [Spider], bigv, cctv, cianchetta0, Lahtso Nuggin, lymenheimer, TakeItToTrial, vdjenkins, youngwarrior and 7 guests