The Official June 2014 Study Group

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iiibbystar
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Re: The Official June 2014 Study Group

Postby iiibbystar » Fri Feb 21, 2014 1:03 am

jk148706 wrote:
iiibbystar wrote:
McBrunson wrote:
suitsfan wrote:I tried taking a full-length preptest for the first time today (June 2007). I took it timed. I'm doing pretty well on my drilling but before and during the test, I was so nervous and during the test I got overwhelmed. I got several questions wrong and wasn't able to finish the sections. I stopped taking the test midway after section 2 (I had added an experimental between sections 1 and 2 from an older test) because I felt like complete shit. I really hope this doesn't happen next time I take a preptest or even worse, the actual test in June.


Was in a similar situation to you just a few days ago when I took my diagnostic. Throughout the test I was all flustered and nervous, but I kept going since I felt it would help me in the long run. Ended up getting a 150 strictly timed (I know, it sucks). Really happy though I went through with it and didn't stop since the low score shows me I have a LONG way to go. Anyway, don't worry too much about it and keep fighting. Remember, the only test that counts is the one you take in June.


I agree! It happened to me too the first time I attempted to take a timed test after my initial diagnostic. The timing is something we have to get used to, but the mentality to uphold is to keep going, even when you stumbled. You'd be surprised at how many you get correct in the end if you don't give up halfway. Even if you got off on the wrong foot or had a rough start, just force yourself to keep going, and it will get better! Did you do timed sections before starting your PT? Maybe start getting comfortable with timed sections before you start taking full blown PT's. I'm kind of doing that now..and it makes me feel less nervous about taking a PT.


At this point, PTs are basically useless. But a diagnostic can be an interesting starting point.

Once you start taking full PTs, don't get discouraged. If you put in the work, the scores will get better and better



Yep, I would say it's still early to take full PT's. If you do timed individual sections, do those sections from PT (1-38) that you are using for drilling so you're not wasting material for future PT's.

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suitsfan
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Re: The Official June 2014 Study Group

Postby suitsfan » Fri Feb 21, 2014 12:14 pm

Thanks for the encouragement guys. It really helped.

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WaltGrace83
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Re: The Official June 2014 Study Group

Postby WaltGrace83 » Fri Feb 21, 2014 12:44 pm

I guess what I should probably mention about my reasoning for doing timed first and then BR is that I go through EVERY answer, not just the ones I have problems with. My strategy is literally this:

1) Do a set of 10, 15, or 25 or so and give myself a time limit (1:20 x (number of problems))
2) Circle the ones that I feel I am not confident in while doing the questions
3) Go back to the circled ones first, take a purple pen and structure the LR stimulus by re-underlining the premise and re-bracketing the conclusion, understand the background information, pick out important words, analyze the stem, etc.
4) Analyze every answer choice, saving the one that I chose for last. I write out a mini explanation next to every letter and circle key words that make the answer choice wrong ("all" for NA for example and then I'll write out "scope" next to letter choice A)
5) Analyze my selected answer choice and reaffirm why it is right, understand why I think its wrong
6) Go to the Manhattan forums (not the answer key) and look up the right answer that way. If there is an explanation, read out everyone's discussion and understand what they are saying. If there is no explanation, write one out in full and then check the answer. If my answer is correct, move on. If not, ask questions about it.
7) Do this for every question.

EDIT: two things I forgot to mention. I also take a highlighter and bracket the whole questions I get wrong so I can easily revisit them later. In addition, if you want to see what my explanations look like, check out Waltgrace1983's Manhattan Profile

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gnomgnomuch
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Re: The Official June 2014 Study Group

Postby gnomgnomuch » Fri Feb 21, 2014 1:07 pm

Hey All,

can someone help me out with the correct way to drill LR? this is what ive been doing so far, and im not sure if its the right way.

1) go through a set of questions from my Cambridge set (say lvl 1 MBT).
2) answer them all
3) mark them
4) go over, in depth the ones I have wrong.

I don't feel that this is helping me much - if at all, any ideas on what I should add to make the review helpful?

thanks!

Bully
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Re: The Official June 2014 Study Group

Postby Bully » Fri Feb 21, 2014 2:12 pm

WaltGrace83 wrote:I guess what I should probably mention about my reasoning for doing timed first and then BR is that I go through EVERY answer, not just the ones I have problems with. My strategy is literally this:

1) Do a set of 10, 15, or 25 or so and give myself a time limit (1:20 x (number of problems))
2) Circle the ones that I feel I am not confident in while doing the questions
3) Go back to the circled ones first, take a purple pen and structure the LR stimulus by re-underlining the premise and re-bracketing the conclusion, understand the background information, pick out important words, analyze the stem, etc.
4) Analyze every answer choice, saving the one that I chose for last. I write out a mini explanation next to every letter and circle key words that make the answer choice wrong ("all" for NA for example and then I'll write out "scope" next to letter choice A)
5) Analyze my selected answer choice and reaffirm why it is right, understand why I think its wrong
6) Go to the Manhattan forums (not the answer key) and look up the right answer that way. If there is an explanation, read out everyone's discussion and understand what they are saying. If there is no explanation, write one out in full and then check the answer. If my answer is correct, move on. If not, ask questions about it.
7) Do this for every question.

EDIT: two things I forgot to mention. I also take a highlighter and bracket the whole questions I get wrong so I can easily revisit them later. In addition, if you want to see what my explanations look like, check out Waltgrace1983's Manhattan Profile


Wow, that is extremely thorough. How long does it take you do do a set of 25 problems using this entire method? Are you drilling problems from Cambridge packets? Personally, I will be using sections from PT 1-40 to drill. I'm wondering about quality vs quantity. I still am not sure about having a time element affecting my accuracy as I begin to drill and create correct habits. Maybe this will be a good strategy once I start to feel more confidant/comfortable with the habits I have developed via untimed (accuracy centered) drilling. My fear is that time restraints will cause me to develop bad habits up front.

EDIT Here's the blind review process recommended by 7Sage.
Blind Review Process
Last edited by Bully on Fri Feb 21, 2014 3:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

rebexness
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Re: The Official June 2014 Study Group

Postby rebexness » Fri Feb 21, 2014 2:30 pm

gnomgnomuch wrote:Hey All,

can someone help me out with the correct way to drill LR? this is what ive been doing so far, and im not sure if its the right way.

1) go through a set of questions from my Cambridge set (say lvl 1 MBT).
2) answer them all
3) mark them
4) go over, in depth the ones I have wrong.

I don't feel that this is helping me much - if at all, any ideas on what I should add to make the review helpful?

thanks!


You should go over any you have questions on- not just the ones that ended up wrong.
When you review them, what do you do? I usually try to figure out the correct answer without notating it, but also read through all of the explanations on the Manhattan forums.

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WaltGrace83
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Re: The Official June 2014 Study Group

Postby WaltGrace83 » Fri Feb 21, 2014 3:06 pm

Bully wrote:
WaltGrace83 wrote:I guess what I should probably mention about my reasoning for doing timed first and then BR is that I go through EVERY answer, not just the ones I have problems with. My strategy is literally this:

1) Do a set of 10, 15, or 25 or so and give myself a time limit (1:20 x (number of problems))
2) Circle the ones that I feel I am not confident in while doing the questions
3) Go back to the circled ones first, take a purple pen and structure the LR stimulus by re-underlining the premise and re-bracketing the conclusion, understand the background information, pick out important words, analyze the stem, etc.
4) Analyze every answer choice, saving the one that I chose for last. I write out a mini explanation next to every letter and circle key words that make the answer choice wrong ("all" for NA for example and then I'll write out "scope" next to letter choice A)
5) Analyze my selected answer choice and reaffirm why it is right, understand why I think its wrong
6) Go to the Manhattan forums (not the answer key) and look up the right answer that way. If there is an explanation, read out everyone's discussion and understand what they are saying. If there is no explanation, write one out in full and then check the answer. If my answer is correct, move on. If not, ask questions about it.
7) Do this for every question.

EDIT: two things I forgot to mention. I also take a highlighter and bracket the whole questions I get wrong so I can easily revisit them later. In addition, if you want to see what my explanations look like, check out Waltgrace1983's Manhattan Profile


Wow, that is extremely thorough. How long does it take you do do a set of 25 problems using this entire method? Are you drilling problems from Cambridge packets? Personally, I will be using sections from PT 1-40 to drill. I'm wondering about quality vs quantity. I still am not sure about having a time element affecting my accuracy as I begin to drill and create correct habits. Maybe this will be a good strategy once I start to feel more confidant/comfortable with the habits I have developed via untimed (accuracy centered) drilling. My fear is that time restraints will cause me to develop bad habits up front.

EDIT Here's the blind review process recommended by 7Sage. I believe it is a 7 part article:
Blind Review Process


It depends (like all things LSAT). For an "easier" set of questions, the review may not be as intense because I am able to crystallize exactly in my mind exactly why things are wrong and right, what the stimulus is saying, etc. However, sometimes it can take me days to review a set of 25 problems. Yet I think this may be the only way to truly get good at understanding the LSAT. There is a difference between understanding and doing well. I would rather have a really good understanding that promotes good scores than a shoddy understanding that just happens to lead to good scores through tricks, word matches, gut feelings, etc. Do I still get stuff wrong? Abso-freaking-lutely. Do I expect to get things wrong in the future? Absolutely. Do I think that my methods will be able to give me the most solid foundation on test day, one in which I will be able to answer the questions confidently and not crush under the pressure? Yea, yea I think so. I am just still in the learning process though and I have noticed that there are some tricks that I almost fall for, remember something that I have learned through my thorough review, and end up erasing the "answer" and choosing the actual answer.

Baby steps folks, baby steps. Every question will lead you closer.

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Twitch
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Re: The Official June 2014 Study Group

Postby Twitch » Fri Feb 21, 2014 5:33 pm

WaltGrace83 wrote:I guess what I should probably mention about my reasoning for doing timed first and then BR is that I go through EVERY answer, not just the ones I have problems with. My strategy is literally this:

1) Do a set of 10, 15, or 25 or so and give myself a time limit (1:20 x (number of problems))
2) Circle the ones that I feel I am not confident in while doing the questions
3) Go back to the circled ones first, take a purple pen and structure the LR stimulus by re-underlining the premise and re-bracketing the conclusion, understand the background information, pick out important words, analyze the stem, etc.
4) Analyze every answer choice, saving the one that I chose for last. I write out a mini explanation next to every letter and circle key words that make the answer choice wrong ("all" for NA for example and then I'll write out "scope" next to letter choice A)
5) Analyze my selected answer choice and reaffirm why it is right, understand why I think its wrong
6) Go to the Manhattan forums (not the answer key) and look up the right answer that way. If there is an explanation, read out everyone's discussion and understand what they are saying. If there is no explanation, write one out in full and then check the answer. If my answer is correct, move on. If not, ask questions about it.
7) Do this for every question.

EDIT: two things I forgot to mention. I also take a highlighter and bracket the whole questions I get wrong so I can easily revisit them later. In addition, if you want to see what my explanations look like, check out Waltgrace1983's Manhattan Profile

Made me happy to see this-- this is my method as well, though not timed. I just do this for my practice sessions. When I feel more confident in my abilities, I'll introduce the aspect of time.

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WaltGrace83
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Re: The Official June 2014 Study Group

Postby WaltGrace83 » Fri Feb 21, 2014 6:33 pm

It's 60 degrees outside, sun is shining, not one cloud in the sky, and I am in my room with the window open doing logic games. Thank god it's almost spring. Studying for the LSAT in beautiful weather like this honest to god makes it 100x more pleasant

rebexness
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Re: The Official June 2014 Study Group

Postby rebexness » Fri Feb 21, 2014 9:11 pm

My next chapter in the Trainer is the Mastery Challenge. :shock:
I don't want to do them, even though I have gone -0 on all of them before.

Friday nights used to be fun. :(

ETA: -1 in 32 minutes. ok.
Last edited by rebexness on Sat Feb 22, 2014 3:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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FlyingNorth
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Re: The Official June 2014 Study Group

Postby FlyingNorth » Fri Feb 21, 2014 11:11 pm

LG drilling, House of Cards, LG drilling, House of Cards

Kind of feels better than getting tanked...kind of.

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gnomgnomuch
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Re: The Official June 2014 Study Group

Postby gnomgnomuch » Sat Feb 22, 2014 12:26 pm

just drilled MBT level 1 and level 2 questions.

level 1: 33/37
level 2 : 39/45

I'm both pleased, and disappointed.

FlyingNorth.... every 3 hours of LSAT prep (or other class work) I reward myself with an episode of House of Cards.

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WaltGrace83
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Re: The Official June 2014 Study Group

Postby WaltGrace83 » Sat Feb 22, 2014 3:39 pm

gnomgnomuch wrote:just drilled MBT level 1 and level 2 questions.

level 1: 33/37
level 2 : 39/45

I'm both pleased, and disappointed.

FlyingNorth.... every 3 hours of LSAT prep (or other class work) I reward myself with an episode of House of Cards.


?

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gnomgnomuch
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Re: The Official June 2014 Study Group

Postby gnomgnomuch » Sat Feb 22, 2014 4:09 pm

WaltGrace83 wrote:
gnomgnomuch wrote:just drilled MBT level 1 and level 2 questions.

level 1: 33/37
level 2 : 39/45

I'm both pleased, and disappointed.

FlyingNorth.... every 3 hours of LSAT prep (or other class work) I reward myself with an episode of House of Cards.


?


On one hand 73/83 is pretty dam good. On the other hand, 73/83 is still 10 questions that I could have - and should have gotten right. Additionally, these are only level 1 and level 2 questions, so while I might have the concept understood, I don't have it understood completely, otherwise id have a gotten them all right.

idk, maybe im nit-picking, since I have very high standards.

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WaltGrace83
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Re: The Official June 2014 Study Group

Postby WaltGrace83 » Sat Feb 22, 2014 4:13 pm

gnomgnomuch wrote:
WaltGrace83 wrote:
gnomgnomuch wrote:just drilled MBT level 1 and level 2 questions.

level 1: 33/37
level 2 : 39/45

I'm both pleased, and disappointed.

FlyingNorth.... every 3 hours of LSAT prep (or other class work) I reward myself with an episode of House of Cards.


?


On one hand 73/83 is pretty dam good. On the other hand, 73/83 is still 10 questions that I could have - and should have gotten right. Additionally, these are only level 1 and level 2 questions, so while I might have the concept understood, I don't have it understood completely, otherwise id have a gotten them all right.

idk, maybe im nit-picking, since I have very high standards.


One thing I will tell you too is that just because something is Level 1/2 for Cambridge doesn't mean it is Level 1/2 for you. I just did a set of NA questions - all Level 1s - after doing all levels for the last few days. I blazed through a lot of them and hopefully I got them all right so that I can confirm my understanding. However, there was one that I just couldn't get. I got to the answer by process of elimination and I am about 50/50 on it because I still have yet to review.

On the other hand, there are some level 3/4 questions that I think to myself, "Cambridge, you think this is Level 4?" Don't beat yourself up too much if you miss level ones and twos. Instead, figure out what happened if you got them wrong.

I also really really hope that you are thoroughly reviewing!

EDIT: lol, just saw the bolded :lol: . I hate you :lol: . Just kidding but it's funny because this is how I read it:

well I have really high standards

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gnomgnomuch
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Re: The Official June 2014 Study Group

Postby gnomgnomuch » Sat Feb 22, 2014 4:28 pm

WaltGrace83 wrote:
gnomgnomuch wrote:
WaltGrace83 wrote:
gnomgnomuch wrote:just drilled MBT level 1 and level 2 questions.

level 1: 33/37
level 2 : 39/45

I'm both pleased, and disappointed.

FlyingNorth.... every 3 hours of LSAT prep (or other class work) I reward myself with an episode of House of Cards.


?


On one hand 73/83 is pretty dam good. On the other hand, 73/83 is still 10 questions that I could have - and should have gotten right. Additionally, these are only level 1 and level 2 questions, so while I might have the concept understood, I don't have it understood completely, otherwise id have a gotten them all right.

idk, maybe im nit-picking, since I have very high standards.


One thing I will tell you too is that just because something is Level 1/2 for Cambridge doesn't mean it is Level 1/2 for you. I just did a set of NA questions - all Level 1s - after doing all levels for the last few days. I blazed through a lot of them and hopefully I got them all right so that I can confirm my understanding. However, there was one that I just couldn't get. I got to the answer by process of elimination and I am about 50/50 on it because I still have yet to review.

On the other hand, there are some level 3/4 questions that I think to myself, "Cambridge, you think this is Level 4?" Don't beat yourself up too much if you miss level ones and twos. Instead, figure out what happened if you got them wrong.

I also really really hope that you are thoroughly reviewing!

EDIT: lol, just saw the bolded :lol: . I hate you :lol: . Just kidding but it's funny because this is how I read it:

well I have really high standards


I'm not entirely to sure on the correct way to review. the way I'm doing it, is if I have to THINK (instead of automatically dismiss an answer choice) I box the question. Then after I score everything I review the boxed questions (and the wrong questions obviously) until I can identify not only the correct answer choice, but why that particular choice is correct AND why every other answer choice is incorrect.
You think I should add anything to the process?

also, taking my next diagnostic in exactly one week... pumped up for it! (going to try hitting a 160, though I've been so swamped with work and classes this past month, that I don't know if it'll happen)

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suitsfan
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Re: The Official June 2014 Study Group

Postby suitsfan » Sat Feb 22, 2014 4:38 pm

WaltGrace83 wrote:I guess what I should probably mention about my reasoning for doing timed first and then BR is that I go through EVERY answer, not just the ones I have problems with. My strategy is literally this:

1) Do a set of 10, 15, or 25 or so and give myself a time limit (1:20 x (number of problems))
2) Circle the ones that I feel I am not confident in while doing the questions
3) Go back to the circled ones first, take a purple pen and structure the LR stimulus by re-underlining the premise and re-bracketing the conclusion, understand the background information, pick out important words, analyze the stem, etc.
4) Analyze every answer choice, saving the one that I chose for last. I write out a mini explanation next to every letter and circle key words that make the answer choice wrong ("all" for NA for example and then I'll write out "scope" next to letter choice A)
5) Analyze my selected answer choice and reaffirm why it is right, understand why I think its wrong
6) Go to the Manhattan forums (not the answer key) and look up the right answer that way. If there is an explanation, read out everyone's discussion and understand what they are saying. If there is no explanation, write one out in full and then check the answer. If my answer is correct, move on. If not, ask questions about it.
7) Do this for every question.

EDIT: two things I forgot to mention. I also take a highlighter and bracket the whole questions I get wrong so I can easily revisit them later. In addition, if you want to see what my explanations look like, check out Waltgrace1983's Manhattan Profile


Dude this method works really well. I printed this out and used it while doing a untimed 15 question LR drill. I got 0 wrong. And it helped me understand a lot more as well.

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gnomgnomuch
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Re: The Official June 2014 Study Group

Postby gnomgnomuch » Sat Feb 22, 2014 4:40 pm

suitsfan wrote:
WaltGrace83 wrote:I guess what I should probably mention about my reasoning for doing timed first and then BR is that I go through EVERY answer, not just the ones I have problems with. My strategy is literally this:

1) Do a set of 10, 15, or 25 or so and give myself a time limit (1:20 x (number of problems))
2) Circle the ones that I feel I am not confident in while doing the questions
3) Go back to the circled ones first, take a purple pen and structure the LR stimulus by re-underlining the premise and re-bracketing the conclusion, understand the background information, pick out important words, analyze the stem, etc.
4) Analyze every answer choice, saving the one that I chose for last. I write out a mini explanation next to every letter and circle key words that make the answer choice wrong ("all" for NA for example and then I'll write out "scope" next to letter choice A)
5) Analyze my selected answer choice and reaffirm why it is right, understand why I think its wrong
6) Go to the Manhattan forums (not the answer key) and look up the right answer that way. If there is an explanation, read out everyone's discussion and understand what they are saying. If there is no explanation, write one out in full and then check the answer. If my answer is correct, move on. If not, ask questions about it.
7) Do this for every question.

EDIT: two things I forgot to mention. I also take a highlighter and bracket the whole questions I get wrong so I can easily revisit them later. In addition, if you want to see what my explanations look like, check out Waltgrace1983's Manhattan Profile


Dude this method works really well. I printed this out and used it while doing a untimed 15 question LR drill. I got 0 wrong. And it helped me understand a lot more as well.


(y). this is GOLD. thanks!

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alexrodriguez
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Re: The Official June 2014 Study Group

Postby alexrodriguez » Sun Feb 23, 2014 12:29 am

Just took a much needed week off from studying!

Time to get back to the grind!

Where is everybody at?

ScrewMick180
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Re: The Official June 2014 Study Group

Postby ScrewMick180 » Sun Feb 23, 2014 4:04 pm

Walt: How did your free Kaplan diagnostic go? I'm thinking of doing the same, and if you had a good experience then I'll definitely sign up.

And does anybody know where JayLawyer is? Haven't seen him post in a while! Wouldn't surprise me if he's studying 14-16 hours per day at this point.

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famousblueraincoat
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Re: The Official June 2014 Study Group

Postby famousblueraincoat » Sun Feb 23, 2014 4:12 pm

louierodriguez wrote:Just took a much needed week off from studying!

Time to get back to the grind!

Where is everybody at?


I'm also taking a break from studying. Looking up MA programs in Canada and the UK, too.

Ughhh

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suitsfan
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Re: The Official June 2014 Study Group

Postby suitsfan » Sun Feb 23, 2014 4:42 pm

I'm currently LR drilling but I always end up going past the time limit. For 15 questions it usually takes me roughly 30 minutes. Any tips on time reduction?

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sanibella
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Re: The Official June 2014 Study Group

Postby sanibella » Sun Feb 23, 2014 5:56 pm

suitsfan wrote:I'm currently LR drilling but I always end up going past the time limit. For 15 questions it usually takes me roughly 30 minutes. Any tips on time reduction?

/
How far into the studying process are you? How many do you normally miss or not get to in a timed section?

rebexness
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Re: The Official June 2014 Study Group

Postby rebexness » Sun Feb 23, 2014 6:16 pm

suitsfan wrote:I'm currently LR drilling but I always end up going past the time limit. For 15 questions it usually takes me roughly 30 minutes. Any tips on time reduction?


What level questions? Are you 100% accurate on them with that much time?

Maybe its just a matter of telling yourself to step up- and cutting that time down, a few minutes at a time.

Where are you spending the time? Reading the stimulus? Debating answer choices?

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Louis1127
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Re: The Official June 2014 Study Group

Postby Louis1127 » Sun Feb 23, 2014 7:50 pm

WaltGrace83 wrote:
Louis1127 wrote:
AcsFoolMike wrote:A question for those of you drilling:

Do you blind review while drilling? If so, when drilling by specific question type, how do you time yourself on the initial run-through? Do you time each individual question? Does it depend on the difficulty level of the questions? I'm currently working through the Trainer and was curious as to the route most of you took during your drilling phase.


I drill untimed to understand the logic behind each question. Even on games I only time myself once in a blue moon just for funsies. Then I get depressed because hard games take me 20 minutes.

TL;DR I drill untimed


Lou, have you ever thought about doing what I do and doing questions timed and then blind reviewing? There is no harm in it because you get to see exactly how you respond in timed situations and then you get to completely go over the logic of the answers before checking the answer. Seeing how you respond, in my opinion, is essential to do perhaps not always but often. Anyone else have any thoughts on this?


Walt,

I am actually gong to start doing this tomorrow (drilling LR timed with blind review). If my accuracy starts plummeting, no big deal, I'll go back to taking as long as I need.

I was hesitant to drill timed this first month and a half because I did not understand the logic behind the test. I am not saying I am a hundred percent now, but I do feel like I am much better at locating and analyzing the core and finding the flaw in flaw family questions.

Quick update for everyone else:

Breaking news...This just in... Level 4 grouping games still hard.

:o




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