The Official June 2014 Study Group

jmjm
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Re: The Official June 2014 Study Group

Postby jmjm » Thu Feb 20, 2014 12:46 am

Just signed up for a Kaplan mock test.

MrsHuxtable
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Re: The Official June 2014 Study Group

Postby MrsHuxtable » Thu Feb 20, 2014 1:00 am

Anyone have any idea on how to destroy flaw questions? I've been working on them for the past couple of days and I can't seem to figure them out. I've mainly been using MLSAT's LR book and drilling. Despite understanding what I'm reading in MLSAT, I can't seem to make that understanding translate into drilling, which means I just don't understand as much as I thought. What scares me with these questions is I'm so comfortable with the wrong answer. I can justify it without hesitation. On blind review I never want to change my answers on these questions because I'm so certain that the answer I've chosen is correct, but then I find out I'm wrong. LR is one of my strongest sections, but flaw questions are killing me and stopping me from making the jump for good to great. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

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givemea180
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Re: The Official June 2014 Study Group

Postby givemea180 » Thu Feb 20, 2014 2:05 am

jmjm wrote:Just signed up for a Kaplan mock test.


Took one of those this past Saturday, I thought it was a really solid experience as a dry run for the real thing.

Anyone know of options other than Kaplan to get an in-classroom proctored pt? I'd really like to do it again at least once by the time June rolls around

jmjm
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Re: The Official June 2014 Study Group

Postby jmjm » Thu Feb 20, 2014 9:19 am


Took one of those this past Saturday, I thought it was a really solid experience as a dry run for the real thing.

Anyone know of options other than Kaplan to get an in-classroom proctored pt? I'd really like to do it again at least once by the time June rolls around


In some metropolitan areas Kaplan has multiple proctored PTs scheduled close to each other. Try to find if it's the case in your city.

I have taken it once before and it's good practice.

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AcsFoolMike
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Re: The Official June 2014 Study Group

Postby AcsFoolMike » Thu Feb 20, 2014 10:21 am

A question for those of you drilling:

Do you blind review while drilling? If so, when drilling by specific question type, how do you time yourself on the initial run-through? Do you time each individual question? Does it depend on the difficulty level of the questions? I'm currently working through the Trainer and was curious as to the route most of you took during your drilling phase.

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Louis1127
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Re: The Official June 2014 Study Group

Postby Louis1127 » Thu Feb 20, 2014 11:47 am

AcsFoolMike wrote:A question for those of you drilling:

Do you blind review while drilling? If so, when drilling by specific question type, how do you time yourself on the initial run-through? Do you time each individual question? Does it depend on the difficulty level of the questions? I'm currently working through the Trainer and was curious as to the route most of you took during your drilling phase.


I drill untimed to understand the logic behind each question. Even on games I only time myself once in a blue moon just for funsies. Then I get depressed because hard games take me 20 minutes.

TL;DR I drill untimed

jmjm
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Re: The Official June 2014 Study Group

Postby jmjm » Thu Feb 20, 2014 11:50 am

Ok, so I've done this passage before, but I was trying to pick PT-62 Passage-3B apart piece-by-piece to review its structure. And it's construction looks a bit confusing. It's the comparative passage B about dental caries.

At the end of the first para, it says "Evidence indicates that...dependent on agriculture." This seems to suggest that the passage would elaborate on this statement or reference it later.

The second para describes background information/research about how agriculture results in declining human/dental health with a little twist (about fiber or grit and its double-edged effect on caries).

However in the 3rd para, which sets up the introduction to the paradoxical observation about caries, the author refers to "from the beginning of the period represented by the recovered remains" in line 52-54. This would mean that the "evidence" in line 36-38 refers to not something related to Ban Chiang because all of Ban Chiang evidence described in para-4 is related to agriculture period and doesn't conform to the "evidence" of line 36-38. So, the line 35-38 seem to contain an orphaned or underdeveloped idea, which seems odd particularly as it's mentioned in relation with Ban Chiang discovery.

Any explanation?

ps: when doing it the first time, I had found this structure a bit odd. But this issue in particular wasn't tested on any question, so as long as one understood the main point of para-4, the passage wouldn't be particularly troublesome. yet, it seems the structure has the issue mentioned above.
Last edited by jmjm on Mon Feb 24, 2014 1:06 am, edited 1 time in total.

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FlyingNorth
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Re: The Official June 2014 Study Group

Postby FlyingNorth » Thu Feb 20, 2014 12:46 pm

givemea180 wrote:
jmjm wrote:Just signed up for a Kaplan mock test.


Took one of those this past Saturday, I thought it was a really solid experience as a dry run for the real thing.

Anyone know of options other than Kaplan to get an in-classroom proctored pt? I'd really like to do it again at least once by the time June rolls around


That tar, though. 8)

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jk148706
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Re: The Official June 2014 Study Group

Postby jk148706 » Thu Feb 20, 2014 1:58 pm

Anyone have a link to where I could sign up for a mock Kaplan test?

rebexness
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Re: The Official June 2014 Study Group

Postby rebexness » Thu Feb 20, 2014 2:05 pm

jk148706 wrote:Anyone have a link to where I could sign up for a mock Kaplan test?


http://www.kaptest.com/lsat-law#

Bro, do you even google? :mrgreen:
Just type in your zip code under "Free Events".

Unfortunately my area "free events" are all online. :roll:

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jk148706
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Re: The Official June 2014 Study Group

Postby jk148706 » Thu Feb 20, 2014 3:09 pm

rebexness wrote:
jk148706 wrote:Anyone have a link to where I could sign up for a mock Kaplan test?


http://www.kaptest.com/lsat-law#

Bro, do you even google? :mrgreen:


No, I TLS

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WaltGrace83
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Re: The Official June 2014 Study Group

Postby WaltGrace83 » Thu Feb 20, 2014 3:59 pm

Pre-phrasing necessary assumption questions is sometimes no fun. I will think to myself, "LSAC is definitely going to ask about this gap" and then I look at the answer choices and think "shit......"

:lol:

I will say that I am training my elephant well though. My instincts are getting pretty good but I am finding that for NA questions I often get to the correct answer by process of elimination, a little troubling but I am successful about 95% of the time so far. The only I can do I guess is to keep drilling and reviewing, hoping that I will not only be able to eliminate the wrong answers on the tough ones, but choose the correct answer.

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WaltGrace83
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Re: The Official June 2014 Study Group

Postby WaltGrace83 » Thu Feb 20, 2014 4:06 pm

Louis1127 wrote:
AcsFoolMike wrote:A question for those of you drilling:

Do you blind review while drilling? If so, when drilling by specific question type, how do you time yourself on the initial run-through? Do you time each individual question? Does it depend on the difficulty level of the questions? I'm currently working through the Trainer and was curious as to the route most of you took during your drilling phase.


I drill untimed to understand the logic behind each question. Even on games I only time myself once in a blue moon just for funsies. Then I get depressed because hard games take me 20 minutes.

TL;DR I drill untimed


Lou, have you ever thought about doing what I do and doing questions timed and then blind reviewing? There is no harm in it because you get to see exactly how you respond in timed situations and then you get to completely go over the logic of the answers before checking the answer. Seeing how you respond, in my opinion, is essential to do perhaps not always but often. Anyone else have any thoughts on this?

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CAVETI
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Re: The Official June 2014 Study Group

Postby CAVETI » Thu Feb 20, 2014 4:25 pm

MrsHuxtable wrote:Anyone have any idea on how to destroy flaw questions? I've been working on them for the past couple of days and I can't seem to figure them out. I've mainly been using MLSAT's LR book and drilling. Despite understanding what I'm reading in MLSAT, I can't seem to make that understanding translate into drilling, which means I just don't understand as much as I thought. What scares me with these questions is I'm so comfortable with the wrong answer. I can justify it without hesitation. On blind review I never want to change my answers on these questions because I'm so certain that the answer I've chosen is correct, but then I find out I'm wrong. LR is one of my strongest sections, but flaw questions are killing me and stopping me from making the jump for good to great. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.


There may be better approaches out there, but here is mine for what it's worth. Flaw questions ask you to Identify the logical leap in an argument (i.e. the assumption), the flaw in any argument will always be found there and though not always, it can be a typical reoccurring flaw (i.e. an illogical reversal, ad-hominen, temporal flaw, causal flaws, ect. ) Once, you have spotted the logical leap in an argument I tend to take only one of two approaches, to either scan for the credited response or eliminated the four wrong answer choices. If the flaw is a reoccurring flaw and I'm doing the first half of the section (it tends to be easier), then I'll scan for the correct answer. However, the process of elimination route is often secure. There is three formats in which the test writers will offer answer choices and a way to eliminate each one:

1) States a typical flaw (often it is the incorrect flaw-eliminate).
2) States a premise that the argument fails to consider, overlooks, and so on (If this on it's face does not hurt the argument-eliminate).
3) States the unwarranted argument, by assuming without warrant, and so on (If the negation of which does not hurt the argument-eliminate).

This tends to leave me with one viable response and is usually the credited response.

Hope that helps!

Bully
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Re: The Official June 2014 Study Group

Postby Bully » Thu Feb 20, 2014 4:59 pm

WaltGrace83 wrote:Lou, have you ever thought about doing what I do and doing questions timed and then blind reviewing? There is no harm in it because you get to see exactly how you respond in timed situations and then you get to completely go over the logic of the answers before checking the answer. Seeing how you respond, in my opinion, is essential to do perhaps not always but often. Anyone else have any thoughts on this?


Hey WaltGrace. Thanks for the helpful information you contribute.

Here are some concerns I have with this strategy:

1) Bad Habits. Time limitation will cause me to rush and use a bad process on some questions which will develop into a bad habit over time. I want to develop the right habits as I begin the drilling process.
2) Trap Answers. I think that the time limitation will make me more prone to confidently selecting trap answers that I wouldn't catch in a blind review. (If I am confidant in the trap answer I quickly picked, why would I circle it to blind review?)
3) Duration. It does not seem to me that doing timed/blind review would save me any study time. It also seems like I would be sacrificing accuracy.

Drill to learn the concepts, shoot for 100% accuracy, and develop good habits. Then move into timed PT's to work on pace. That's what makes sense to me.

I am also interested to hearing others thoughts on this as I am just about to finish up the Trainer and will be drilling more heavily soon.

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CAVETI
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Re: The Official June 2014 Study Group

Postby CAVETI » Thu Feb 20, 2014 7:07 pm

Bully wrote:
WaltGrace83 wrote:Lou, have you ever thought about doing what I do and doing questions timed and then blind reviewing? There is no harm in it because you get to see exactly how you respond in timed situations and then you get to completely go over the logic of the answers before checking the answer. Seeing how you respond, in my opinion, is essential to do perhaps not always but often. Anyone else have any thoughts on this?


Hey WaltGrace. Thanks for the helpful information you contribute.

Here are some concerns I have with this strategy:

1) Bad Habits. Time limitation will cause me to rush and use a bad process on some questions which will develop into a bad habit over time. I want to develop the right habits as I begin the drilling process.
2) Trap Answers. I think that the time limitation will make me more prone to confidently selecting trap answers that I wouldn't catch in a blind review. (If I am confidant in the trap answer I quickly picked, why would I circle it to blind review?)
3) Duration. It does not seem to me that doing timed/blind review would save me any study time. It also seems like I would be sacrificing accuracy.

Drill to learn the concepts, shoot for 100% accuracy, and develop good habits. Then move into timed PT's to work on pace. That's what makes sense to me.

I am also interested to hearing others thoughts on this as I am just about to finish up the Trainer and will be drilling more heavily soon.



I would second this, as it sounds reasonable to me. The LSAT phase one is "mastery' and phase two is "timing." So it only seems reasonable that you would drill untamed to master the question type and then timed, at least that is how I do it. Anyone else want to chime in?

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suitsfan
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Re: The Official June 2014 Study Group

Postby suitsfan » Thu Feb 20, 2014 9:21 pm

I tried taking a full-length preptest for the first time today (June 2007). I took it timed. I'm doing pretty well on my drilling but before and during the test, I was so nervous and during the test I got overwhelmed. I got several questions wrong and wasn't able to finish the sections. I stopped taking the test midway after section 2 (I had added an experimental between sections 1 and 2 from an older test) because I felt like complete shit. I really hope this doesn't happen next time I take a preptest or even worse, the actual test in June.

MrsHuxtable
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Re: The Official June 2014 Study Group

Postby MrsHuxtable » Thu Feb 20, 2014 9:27 pm

Can I just that everyone in this thread is awesome! :mrgreen: Thank you to everyone who has reached out to offer their advice/resources regarding flaw questions. I'm pouring over all the information in hopes that this time next week I can post about how I've made progress on flaw questions. @CAVETI I'll definitely be trying your method for answering flaw questions and let you know how it goes. Now back to flaw questions, hopefully I can become flawless, or at least as close as possible.

McBrunson
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Re: The Official June 2014 Study Group

Postby McBrunson » Thu Feb 20, 2014 11:04 pm

suitsfan wrote:I tried taking a full-length preptest for the first time today (June 2007). I took it timed. I'm doing pretty well on my drilling but before and during the test, I was so nervous and during the test I got overwhelmed. I got several questions wrong and wasn't able to finish the sections. I stopped taking the test midway after section 2 (I had added an experimental between sections 1 and 2 from an older test) because I felt like complete shit. I really hope this doesn't happen next time I take a preptest or even worse, the actual test in June.


Was in a similar situation to you just a few days ago when I took my diagnostic. Throughout the test I was all flustered and nervous, but I kept going since I felt it would help me in the long run. Ended up getting a 150 strictly timed (I know, it sucks). Really happy though I went through with it and didn't stop since the low score shows me I have a LONG way to go. Anyway, don't worry too much about it and keep fighting. Remember, the only test that counts is the one you take in June.

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CocoSunshine
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Re: The Official June 2014 Study Group

Postby CocoSunshine » Thu Feb 20, 2014 11:21 pm

Officially hit the withdrawl button for the Feb test (Asia) yesterday. After one week's break, take Preptest C with an experimental from Preptest A (I did it before).

LG 20/24 BR 24/24 (One of the worst LG I've ever did since I moved into full time PT phase. Probably get rusty after the break.)
LR 22/24 BR 22/24
LR 23/26 BR 24/26 (Pretty satisfied with it at present.)
RC 20/27 BR 24/27 (Just as bad as before :( )
Scared score 169. Blind review 176. I love the lenient curve.

BTW, do we have any plan for group review here? Last year's June group generted great results from group review, led by Daily_Double and others.

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givemea180
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Re: The Official June 2014 Study Group

Postby givemea180 » Fri Feb 21, 2014 12:11 am

FlyingNorth wrote:
givemea180 wrote:
jmjm wrote:Just signed up for a Kaplan mock test.


Took one of those this past Saturday, I thought it was a really solid experience as a dry run for the real thing.

Anyone know of options other than Kaplan to get an in-classroom proctored pt? I'd really like to do it again at least once by the time June rolls around


That tar, though. 8)


Debating a change to the Yeezy "but I'm the best" gif in order to inspire some more confidence.

Additionally, when ya'll mention drilling sections for lr or lg do you just pick 25 questions or 4 games and do them timed, I have the Cambridge drilling packets by type and am wondering whether to choose a certain amount of each difficulty or do it somewhat randomly

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iiibbystar
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Re: The Official June 2014 Study Group

Postby iiibbystar » Fri Feb 21, 2014 12:43 am

McBrunson wrote:
suitsfan wrote:I tried taking a full-length preptest for the first time today (June 2007). I took it timed. I'm doing pretty well on my drilling but before and during the test, I was so nervous and during the test I got overwhelmed. I got several questions wrong and wasn't able to finish the sections. I stopped taking the test midway after section 2 (I had added an experimental between sections 1 and 2 from an older test) because I felt like complete shit. I really hope this doesn't happen next time I take a preptest or even worse, the actual test in June.


Was in a similar situation to you just a few days ago when I took my diagnostic. Throughout the test I was all flustered and nervous, but I kept going since I felt it would help me in the long run. Ended up getting a 150 strictly timed (I know, it sucks). Really happy though I went through with it and didn't stop since the low score shows me I have a LONG way to go. Anyway, don't worry too much about it and keep fighting. Remember, the only test that counts is the one you take in June.


I agree! It happened to me too the first time I attempted to take a timed test after my initial diagnostic. The timing is something we have to get used to, but the mentality to uphold is to keep going, even when you stumbled. You'd be surprised at how many you get correct in the end if you don't give up halfway. Even if you got off on the wrong foot or had a rough start, just force yourself to keep going, and it will get better! Did you do timed sections before starting your PT? Maybe start getting comfortable with individual timed sections before you start taking full blown PT's. I'm kind of doing that now..and it makes me feel less nervous about taking a PT.

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jk148706
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Re: The Official June 2014 Study Group

Postby jk148706 » Fri Feb 21, 2014 12:49 am

iiibbystar wrote:
McBrunson wrote:
suitsfan wrote:I tried taking a full-length preptest for the first time today (June 2007). I took it timed. I'm doing pretty well on my drilling but before and during the test, I was so nervous and during the test I got overwhelmed. I got several questions wrong and wasn't able to finish the sections. I stopped taking the test midway after section 2 (I had added an experimental between sections 1 and 2 from an older test) because I felt like complete shit. I really hope this doesn't happen next time I take a preptest or even worse, the actual test in June.


Was in a similar situation to you just a few days ago when I took my diagnostic. Throughout the test I was all flustered and nervous, but I kept going since I felt it would help me in the long run. Ended up getting a 150 strictly timed (I know, it sucks). Really happy though I went through with it and didn't stop since the low score shows me I have a LONG way to go. Anyway, don't worry too much about it and keep fighting. Remember, the only test that counts is the one you take in June.


I agree! It happened to me too the first time I attempted to take a timed test after my initial diagnostic. The timing is something we have to get used to, but the mentality to uphold is to keep going, even when you stumbled. You'd be surprised at how many you get correct in the end if you don't give up halfway. Even if you got off on the wrong foot or had a rough start, just force yourself to keep going, and it will get better! Did you do timed sections before starting your PT? Maybe start getting comfortable with timed sections before you start taking full blown PT's. I'm kind of doing that now..and it makes me feel less nervous about taking a PT.


At this point, PTs are basically useless. But a diagnostic can be an interesting starting point.

Once you start taking full PTs, don't get discouraged. If you put in the work, the scores will get better and better

McBrunson
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Re: The Official June 2014 Study Group

Postby McBrunson » Fri Feb 21, 2014 12:54 am

iiibbystar wrote:
McBrunson wrote:
suitsfan wrote:I tried taking a full-length preptest for the first time today (June 2007). I took it timed. I'm doing pretty well on my drilling but before and during the test, I was so nervous and during the test I got overwhelmed. I got several questions wrong and wasn't able to finish the sections. I stopped taking the test midway after section 2 (I had added an experimental between sections 1 and 2 from an older test) because I felt like complete shit. I really hope this doesn't happen next time I take a preptest or even worse, the actual test in June.


Was in a similar situation to you just a few days ago when I took my diagnostic. Throughout the test I was all flustered and nervous, but I kept going since I felt it would help me in the long run. Ended up getting a 150 strictly timed (I know, it sucks). Really happy though I went through with it and didn't stop since the low score shows me I have a LONG way to go. Anyway, don't worry too much about it and keep fighting. Remember, the only test that counts is the one you take in June.


I agree! It happened to me too the first time I attempted to take a timed test after my initial diagnostic. The timing is something we have to get used to, but the mentality to uphold is to keep going, even when you stumbled. You'd be surprised at how many you get correct in the end if you don't give up halfway. Even if you got off on the wrong foot or had a rough start, just force yourself to keep going, and it will get better! Did you do timed sections before starting your PT? Maybe start getting comfortable with individual timed sections before you start taking full blown PT's. I'm kind of doing that now..and it makes me feel less nervous about taking a PT.


Good suggestion. I never took any timed sections so my timing on the test was awful, especially for RC and LG. Had to skip so many questions that it really destroyed my confidence. Glad I finished the exam though and didn't give up. A 150 diagnostic is REALLY bad, but it showed me I have a lot to work on. Maybe I'll start implementing your strategy and do timed PT's. I also agree with WaltGrace's suggestion--- when drilling, first do the questions timed, and then do blind review BEFORE checking your answers. For those that struggle with timing, I feel this is a great way to becoming more efficient since it enables you to work on timing and accuracy at the same time. Taking the test in September by the way, but I really enjoy following this thread.

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iiibbystar
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Re: The Official June 2014 Study Group

Postby iiibbystar » Fri Feb 21, 2014 1:00 am

givemea180 wrote:
FlyingNorth wrote:
givemea180 wrote:
jmjm wrote:Just signed up for a Kaplan mock test.


Took one of those this past Saturday, I thought it was a really solid experience as a dry run for the real thing.

Anyone know of options other than Kaplan to get an in-classroom proctored pt? I'd really like to do it again at least once by the time June rolls around


That tar, though. 8)


Debating a change to the Yeezy "but I'm the best" gif in order to inspire some more confidence.

Additionally, when ya'll mention drilling sections for lr or lg do you just pick 25 questions or 4 games and do them timed, I have the Cambridge drilling packets by type and am wondering whether to choose a certain amount of each difficulty or do it somewhat randomly


What I did for LG drilling was I went through all the games once, untimed, making sure I understand how to approach it and best set it up (7sage). And, then I timed it the second time, aiming for below 8.5 mins for individual games (and maybe 5-6mins or less for easy games). Take note of the games that give you the most trouble, and do those games individually over and over again. There are some games that still give me so much grief and that I will spend 10+mins on, but I will keep practicing them to make sure I understand the inferences and how to make them faster. Once you can get those individual games under 8.5mins, with consistent accuracy, then start doing those games by individual sections (PT 1-38) under 35mins. That's my process so far--hope that helps!
Last edited by iiibbystar on Fri Feb 21, 2014 1:07 am, edited 1 time in total.




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