The Official June 2014 Study Group

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paglababa
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Re: The Official June 2014 Study Group

Postby paglababa » Thu Feb 13, 2014 10:33 am

famousblueraincoat wrote:
louierodriguez wrote:So after marking all the wrong answers I went back and did each question again.

LR -1
LG -2
LR -7
RC -4 (two of these I didn't change)

Comes to a 168....

kind of a boost in confidence even though it's nowhere near a true 168


I beg to differ! If you can eventually arrive at the right answers you can definitely train yourself to do so within the allotted time, thus earning a great and "true" score.

*goes back to not studying*

:lol:


Dude, most of the learning takes place AFTER the PT. WHenever you get questions wrong, don't look up the answer. First do blind review, which sounds like what you did. If you can get them right, you know you're on the right path, and just need to work on timing.

Also, don't just find the right answer. I.e. if you're doing LR, you should be able to tell me why all of the other 4 answers are incorrect. If you can't tell that, you have not mastered the question.

Regarding the -7 on LR even during your review, there is a problem with your fundamentals. Was it a specfic type of question(s) that you were having difficulty with? Might be helpful to review that question type from your book again and drill those questions from your cambridge packets.

HTH

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alexrodriguez
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Re: The Official June 2014 Study Group

Postby alexrodriguez » Thu Feb 13, 2014 10:40 am

WaltGrace83 wrote:


What happened on LG? Was it one game or were the wrong answers scattered across the board?
What happened on RC? Was it one passage or scattered?
What about LR? Certain question types?


I had -3 in the circular game. I messed up one of the rules. I-O O-I

RC - I had 4 wrong in the energy one about brazil and the danes.

Right now I'm using the Manhattan forums to go back and look at each question. Seems like a lot flaw and necessary assumption questions.

the except questions kind of trip me up too, but I think I've just developed a fool proof strategy for that. it works at least untimed... just right out to the side: Weaken - It would do good. Not Weaken it would harm...

that example I used on question 16 in section 3... I originally put A and it's so obviously wrong after writing all that out
Last edited by alexrodriguez on Thu Feb 13, 2014 10:44 am, edited 1 time in total.

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alexrodriguez
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Re: The Official June 2014 Study Group

Postby alexrodriguez » Thu Feb 13, 2014 10:43 am

paglababa wrote:Dude, most of the learning takes place AFTER the PT. WHenever you get questions wrong, don't look up the answer. First do blind review, which sounds like what you did. If you can get them right, you know you're on the right path, and just need to work on timing.


About blind review... this is what I'm comfortable with doing...

I put all my answers in LSATQA and it tells me the questions I got wrong, but it doesn't tell me the answers.

So what I do is go back into the test and I redo only these questions.

My impression of blind review is that you go back and look at the entire test again before knowing what you got wrong... that just seems like a lot of wasted time

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alexrodriguez
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Re: The Official June 2014 Study Group

Postby alexrodriguez » Thu Feb 13, 2014 11:01 am

Did you guys have any trouble with Question 22 in section 1 of PT 41? It's still hard for me to believe answer D is the right answer choice.

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alexrodriguez
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Re: The Official June 2014 Study Group

Postby alexrodriguez » Thu Feb 13, 2014 11:14 am

My facebook is deactivated, my television is unplugged, and I'm out on an island in the middle of the Indian ocean.

Today was productive. Tomorrow (Friday) I finish reviewing PT 41 and do some more LR drilling.

Saturday will be more LR drilling.

I'll be doing PT 54 untimed on Sunday with a complete review.

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CocoSunshine
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Re: The Official June 2014 Study Group

Postby CocoSunshine » Thu Feb 13, 2014 11:14 am

louierodriguez wrote:My impression of blind review is that you go back and look at the entire test again before knowing what you got wrong... that just seems like a lot of wasted time


If you are referring to 7Sage's blind review method, check this: http://7sage.com/the-blind-review-how-t ... at-part-1/ According to them, you don't have to go through the entire test again, just the questions you are not 100% certain about. And you should not check the answers before blind review.

However, for my first 5 PTs or so, I did blind review every single question. I try to give a reason for every answer choice I eliminated and selected, and check my reasons with Manhattan forum. I think this is what helps me get the fundamentals done and improve from -5/8 in 42 mins to -3/5 in 35 mins. After that, I only blind review the questions I circled.

Straw_Mandible
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Re: The Official June 2014 Study Group

Postby Straw_Mandible » Thu Feb 13, 2014 11:39 am

louierodriguez wrote:Did you guys have any trouble with Question 22 in section 1 of PT 41? It's still hard for me to believe answer D is the right answer choice.


If you can see the flaw in the stimulus clearly, then answer choice D should really jump out at you as the only possible correct answer.

The conclusion is that a society should never allow any rules to be broken with impunity. The support says that if rules routinely go unpunished, people will be left without moral guidance, which will result in chaos.

The flaw, which should be clear from my added emphasis, is that the conclusion makes a wider inference than the premises logically allow. It relies on the fallacious assumption that any instance of a law being broken with impunity will result in chaos. The premises say that routine unpunished violations will result in chaos. Answer choice D exposes that gap.

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Louis1127
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Re: The Official June 2014 Study Group

Postby Louis1127 » Thu Feb 13, 2014 12:52 pm

For those of you who have drilled Cambridge by type for PT 1-38, about how many of the level 3 and 4 questions did you get right? I got about 60 percent of them right fro Flaw and NA (obviously I am reviewing them like crazy) and while it is early, I am slightly concerned that I may not be improving/improving very little.

rebexness
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Re: The Official June 2014 Study Group

Postby rebexness » Thu Feb 13, 2014 1:33 pm

louierodriguez wrote:the except questions kind of trip me up too, but I think I've just developed a fool proof strategy for that. it works at least untimed... just right out to the side: Weaken - It would do good. Not Weaken it would harm...


The way I do this is pretty similar, except with #s

For example
"All of these weaken EXCEPT"
I would write "4 Weaken, 1 DNW (does not weaken)
I have plenty of time to do this during the test, and it makes sure I don't get sucked in by a trap answer.

westtech
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Re: The Official June 2014 Study Group

Postby westtech » Thu Feb 13, 2014 2:48 pm

rebexness wrote:The way I do this is pretty similar, except with #s

For example
"All of these weaken EXCEPT"
I would write "4 Weaken, 1 DNW (does not weaken)
I have plenty of time to do this during the test, and it makes sure I don't get sucked in by a trap answer.

I am definitely going to start doing this. I can't count how many times I have been eliminating incorrect answers and about half way through forget my task and then get suckered into an attractive wrong answer.

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famousblueraincoat
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Re: The Official June 2014 Study Group

Postby famousblueraincoat » Thu Feb 13, 2014 3:08 pm

How does this sound: 20 problems of each type covered in the trainer (so far I guess) from LG/LR? Timed?

Too little? I want to be careful how many problems I do before starting to drill.

Thanks for putting up with my lazy/cluelessness :P

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mist4bison
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Re: The Official June 2014 Study Group

Postby mist4bison » Thu Feb 13, 2014 4:06 pm

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Last edited by mist4bison on Mon Oct 05, 2015 2:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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famousblueraincoat
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Re: The Official June 2014 Study Group

Postby famousblueraincoat » Thu Feb 13, 2014 4:09 pm

mist4bison wrote:When drilling LG, how seriously are y'all taking Miscellaneous games? I've done a couple, but was thinking it might be more worthwhile to complete all other game types once or twice before I even touch Miscellaneous. Thoughts?


That makes more sense to me, yeah. Better to master all games with set characteristics before approaching the wild cards. Looks like you've left the slacker club :cry:

Straw_Mandible
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Re: The Official June 2014 Study Group

Postby Straw_Mandible » Thu Feb 13, 2014 4:24 pm

mist4bison wrote:When drilling LG, how seriously are y'all taking Miscellaneous games? I've done a couple, but was thinking it might be more worthwhile to complete all other game types once or twice before I even touch Miscellaneous. Thoughts?


Absolutely take them seriously. Keep in mind that the test writers are not the ones creating these typologies; the prep companies are. Just because a game doesn't fit into "typical" diagramming schematics doesn't make it any less critical to the development of your LG skills in general. The test writers are interested in testing certain fundamental principles of reasoning. All official games--no matter where they fall on the typology spectrum--are going to be valuable for your prep. Remember that your aim should be to learn principles, rather than tricks. Learning how to do a weird circular game, for example, will help you develop the very same reasoning skills that allow you to solve linear ordering games. They're all relevant and worthy of serious attention.

ETA: The February testers just had to tackle a circular game. I assume the reason it freaked a lot of people out is that it didn't conform to the "common" typologies that they were accustomed to seeing. Chances are, however, that it tested the very same general reasoning principles as every other game in existence--just in a different shape.
Last edited by Straw_Mandible on Thu Feb 13, 2014 4:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

rebexness
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Re: The Official June 2014 Study Group

Postby rebexness » Thu Feb 13, 2014 4:26 pm

mist4bison wrote:When drilling LG, how seriously are y'all taking Miscellaneous games? I've done a couple, but was thinking it might be more worthwhile to complete all other game types once or twice before I even touch Miscellaneous. Thoughts?


I don't think this is a bad idea, but DON'T ignore them. I think a lot of people do, and in February they probably regretted it.

Straw_Mandible
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Re: The Official June 2014 Study Group

Postby Straw_Mandible » Thu Feb 13, 2014 4:45 pm

Before I forget:

Post 180! (May the LSAT gods look favorably upon this sacrifice.)

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mist4bison
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Re: The Official June 2014 Study Group

Postby mist4bison » Thu Feb 13, 2014 5:13 pm

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Last edited by mist4bison on Mon Oct 05, 2015 2:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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iiibbystar
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Re: The Official June 2014 Study Group

Postby iiibbystar » Thu Feb 13, 2014 7:05 pm

mist4bison wrote:
Straw_Mandible wrote:
mist4bison wrote:When drilling LG, how seriously are y'all taking Miscellaneous games? I've done a couple, but was thinking it might be more worthwhile to complete all other game types once or twice before I even touch Miscellaneous. Thoughts?


Absolutely take them seriously. Keep in mind that the test writers are not the ones creating these typologies; the prep companies are. Just because a game doesn't fit into "typical" diagramming schematics doesn't make it any less critical to the development of your LG skills in general. The test writers are interested in testing certain fundamental principles of reasoning. All official games--no matter where they fall on the typology spectrum--are going to be valuable for your prep. Remember that your aim should be to learn principles, rather than tricks. Learning how to do a weird circular game, for example, will help you develop the very same reasoning skills that allow you to solve linear ordering games. They're all relevant and worthy of serious attention.

ETA: The February testers just had to tackle a circular game. I assume the reason it freaked a lot of people out is that it didn't conform to the "common" typologies that they were accustomed to seeing. Chances are, however, that it tested the very same general reasoning principles as every other game in existence--just in a different shape.


Yeah, I definitely don't plan on ignoring them. I guess I'm just thinking it makes more sense to first get down the basics, then do the basics pretty well, and then touch the uncommon games.

As of right now (about 80% done with first round of LG drilling) I've been going -1 or -0 on every game I've tried. I haven't missed a single level 3 question yet. :)


I would say focus on all the other game packets first, and then go on to practicing the miscellaneous games. I recall the bread loaves game in that packet to be pretty relevant.

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SnakySalmon
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Re: The Official June 2014 Study Group

Postby SnakySalmon » Fri Feb 14, 2014 5:36 am

Hey guys, I just took my diagnostic test, and am starting my studying. I may postpone till October if I'm not ready, but June is the goal.

Got a 164 on PT number 29. I didn't want to waste a super new one.

-4 LR
-2 RC (I also had made notes on both missed problems wondering if the correct answer was right)
-14 LG

I had no time trouble, except on the LG section, where I only answered ten questions before it ran out. Since I got the ten I did answer right, and hadn't done an logic game in over a decade, I'm hopeful that I can improve this quickly with drilling.

Wish me luck!

rebexness
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Re: The Official June 2014 Study Group

Postby rebexness » Fri Feb 14, 2014 5:55 am

Honestly that's a great place to start from. LGs are the most learnable part. Welcome!

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SnakySalmon
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Re: The Official June 2014 Study Group

Postby SnakySalmon » Fri Feb 14, 2014 6:19 am

rebexness wrote:Honestly that's a great place to start from. LGs are the most learnable part. Welcome!


Thanks!

I'm going to start the power score LG book when it comes in the mail tomorrow.

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WaltGrace83
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Re: The Official June 2014 Study Group

Postby WaltGrace83 » Fri Feb 14, 2014 11:20 am

SnakySalmon wrote:Hey guys, I just took my diagnostic test, and am starting my studying. I may postpone till October if I'm not ready, but June is the goal.

Got a 164 on PT number 29. I didn't want to waste a super new one.

-4 LR
-2 RC (I also had made notes on both missed problems wondering if the correct answer was right)
-14 LG

I had no time trouble, except on the LG section, where I only answered ten questions before it ran out. Since I got the ten I did answer right, and hadn't done an logic game in over a decade, I'm hopeful that I can improve this quickly with drilling.

Wish me luck!


If that LR and RC score was not a fluke (which it would be an AMAZING fluke), you are on your way to get a REALLY REALLY good score.

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WaltGrace83
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Re: The Official June 2014 Study Group

Postby WaltGrace83 » Fri Feb 14, 2014 1:42 pm

I am going to add something here that I am thinking about as I am studying today: don't write off "easy" questions as easy in review. What I mean is that there really isn't a difference between the "easy" stimuli and the "hard" stimuli. The difference is in the answer choices. So instead of just quickly going through the easy questions and saying "this answer choice is bad because XYZ..." think instead about the stimuli. Think about all the gaps. Ask "how could I ask different questions from these stimuli?" Ask "if this stimuli was Q17 instead of Q3, how would my approach change? Why?"

I'll give you an example.

Here is my explanation for an "easy" question, PT9 S4 Q6 taken from the Manhattan forums. This was done at the tail-end of my last summer trying to study (didn't work out with school and what not)

Argument:
Countries in labor shortages drive away workers at 65
-->
Labor shortages could be averted if this practice was eliminated

Thought process
The big assumption here is that workers wouldn't leave on their own. Just because workers are asked to leave doesn't mean that they would want to stay anyway. Some people retire at 65, not because they are asked to, but because it is generally accepted as the "time" to retire. In addition, the argument is assuming that labor shortages as a whole would be averted if these particular workers stayed. Perhaps these workers were not enough to compensate for the labor shortage. This may be something to think about when looking at the answer choices.


However, i failed to notice something here that I noticed when reviewing this question 5 months later...

WaltGrace1983 wrote:Experienced and productive older workers are going to be driven from work at age 65

If this were not the case, then the labor shortages would be averted.

Look at how STRONG this conclusion is! This is saying that the older workers are absolutely sufficient to completely thwart the labor shortages. If workers 65+ are working → ~Labor shortage. Do these answer choices attack this gap? Nah, not really. However, I think that you can almost guarantee to see a conclusion very similar to this for a sufficient assumption question. Just something to keep in mind...


This could very well be something that a different question with the same stimulus would get onto. I guess what I am trying to say is "don't feel bad for spending lots of time on 'easy' questions. The answer choices may be easy but the stimulus is just as hard and there is a lot to learn from that alone!"

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flash21
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Re: The Official June 2014 Study Group

Postby flash21 » Fri Feb 14, 2014 6:19 pm

walt grace --- great post.

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famousblueraincoat
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Re: The Official June 2014 Study Group

Postby famousblueraincoat » Fri Feb 14, 2014 8:34 pm

flash21 wrote:walt grace --- great post.


+1. Will definitely keep this in mind while drilling this weekend! :)




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