Struggling With Grouping Games

osubucknut
Posts: 80
Joined: Fri Apr 12, 2013 2:07 am

Struggling With Grouping Games

Postby osubucknut » Thu May 09, 2013 12:21 pm

Sorry for posting about grouping games again, but I really don't know what else to do. I've read through the lg bible, the manhattan guide, and watched the 7sage videos. While the 7sage videos helped me with setting games up, I still cannot figure out where to go from there. Can somebody please explain how to solve grouping games without making hypos for every single question/answer choice? I hate to bother everyone again but I've tried everything and I'm feeling like I just might never get it.

Journey180
Posts: 45
Joined: Wed Apr 17, 2013 5:22 pm

Re: Struggling With Grouping Games

Postby Journey180 » Thu May 09, 2013 2:20 pm

Just wondering... Are you having trouble with all grouping games or just a certain kind of grouping game ( single vs multiple groups, etc.)? What kind of diagram are you employing for your hypothetical? What exactly do you want to achieve/improve (assuming that you have a grip on at least some of the concepts)?

osubucknut
Posts: 80
Joined: Fri Apr 12, 2013 2:07 am

Re: Struggling With Grouping Games

Postby osubucknut » Thu May 09, 2013 6:27 pm

I'd say I'm decent at In/Out games and okay at open grouping, but terrible at basic grouping and 3d grouping. For my hypotheticals, I'm drawing out the entire diagram I start with after applying the rules and my original inferences then plugging the information from the stem and answer choices into my hypos. I want to improve both time and accuracy. I can get some questions right by using the hypotheticals, but that's an extremely long process that makes it difficult to finish the section. I guess I just want to know how to solve questions without writing out tons of hypos. Like I said, 7sage was great for learning how to set the games up, but they show you why the answer choice is correct and the others wrong by making hypos. I don't know how to answer questions without using that method, and I'm getting extremely nervous for the June test. I guess the good thing is I have nothing to do between now and the test but study.

osubucknut
Posts: 80
Joined: Fri Apr 12, 2013 2:07 am

Re: Struggling With Grouping Games

Postby osubucknut » Fri May 10, 2013 11:01 am

Anyone?

Mik Ekim
Posts: 102
Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2012 12:06 pm

Re: Struggling With Grouping Games

Postby Mik Ekim » Fri May 10, 2013 12:51 pm

I find grouping games to be harder than ordering games as well --

You're smart and right to see that creating so many hypos is less than ideal -- I'm not sure exactly what's causing your issues, but here are a couple of things to consider:

1) The challenge of ordering is more about the number of rules and possibilities (there are, mathematically speaking, far more ways an ordering game can play out than a grouping game), and the challenge of grouping is often about the disparities in the rules -- to give an analogy -- a tough ordering game is like having to juggle eight bowling pins at once, and a tough grouping game is like juggling just four things -- but they happen to be a bowling pin, a necklace, a glass cup, and a bowling ball -- things that are tough to bring together.

In order to juggle different types of issues/rules successfully, you need to have a strong big picture sense of what games are all about, and you need have diagramming systems that are consistent with one another.

Let's say, for example, that you have an ordering game with 4 places in an order, and the elements are described in terms of both subset and order (what is often described as 3-d ordering) -- how would you set up that basic board?

How about if you have a game with ordering and grouping -- say 4 pairs of students take turns doing something -- how would you set up that basic board?

Now here's the kicker: you've got a game involving all of those issues -- order, subset, group --
a) are your diagramming systems cohesive enough so that you can diagram all those things together, or does the way you diagram one type of game clash with how you diagram another?
b) do you feel comfortable bringing together various things you've learned/worked on?

A lot of test takers struggle because they can't say yes to those two questions.

2) Not always, but on average, ordering games tend to have more front of the game inferences (inferences to be made during the setup) and grouping games tend to have more back of the game inferences (inferences to be made during questions). So, you should expect to have to do a bit more work in the questions for grouping games. This is especially true if you get a very simple grouping situation in games 2, 3, or 4 -- chances are, that simple situation is going to come with some tough questions.

Though these grouping games require a bit more work in the questions, that does not mean they require a lot of hypotheticals -- in fact, if we're using the term "hypotheticals" in the same way, you should expect, depending on your strategies of course, to have to make very few of them to answer questions --

Here are a couple of suggestions that may help you be less dependent on them --

a) our ability to answer questions is most directly dependent on how comfortable we are with understanding the situation / how comfortable we are with our diagram. When you are done diagramming, take a few seconds to do two things- one, to make sure you have an exact understanding of what your notations mean. You can verify this by looking at each notation, saying to yourself what it means exactly, then checking it back against the written text. If your understanding is different at all (let's say your notes make it seem F must go after G, but the rule actually just states F can't go before G, and the game allows for ties), write some notes to yourself to clarify. Two, take a few seconds and just "play" around with your board mentally before getting in the questions -- think about which rules are most restrictive, and imagine placing elements in a few different ways. Once you have some experience, all of this will take very few seconds in real time. Understand that how comfortable you are with your diagram will determine how fast the questions go, and make sure you feel as much in control of it as possible before going in to the questions.

b) make sure you fully utilize the question stem to focus your attention. If the question stem gives you conditional information, you need to make inferences off of it (this is very different from making hypos) -- you'll be doing almost all of your major work before going into the answers, and for most problems, differentiating between right and wrong should be fairly straightforward. Additionally, there are certain questions (such as Must be true) for which it makes sense to go after the right answer, and the worst thing you can do is waste time on "could be false" wrong answers, and there are other questions (such as could be true) for which it makes sense to eliminate wrong choices instead of looking for the right one. If you have control over your diagram, ideally you shouldn't have to make many hypos, if any at all, to see that four of the answers for a could be true are answers that must be false.

Again, not sure if any of the above hits on your issues, but I hope you find at least some of it to be useful. Good luck.

mystikal
Posts: 46
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2012 10:07 am

Re: Struggling With Grouping Games

Postby mystikal » Fri May 10, 2013 1:57 pm

osubucknut wrote:Sorry for posting about grouping games again, but I really don't know what else to do. I've read through the lg bible, the manhattan guide, and watched the 7sage videos. While the 7sage videos helped me with setting games up, I still cannot figure out where to go from there. Can somebody please explain how to solve grouping games without making hypos for every single question/answer choice? I hate to bother everyone again but I've tried everything and I'm feeling like I just might never get it.



Which games are your struggling with?

osubucknut
Posts: 80
Joined: Fri Apr 12, 2013 2:07 am

Re: Struggling With Grouping Games

Postby osubucknut » Fri May 10, 2013 5:33 pm

Thnk you the advice was useful. I'm struggling mainly with basic grouping and 3d grouping. What kills me is unless an answer choice is in direct violation with the rules given I have to literally insert every choice into a hypo diagram.




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