Tips for studying and working full time?

linkx13
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Tips for studying and working full time?

Postby linkx13 » Wed Apr 24, 2013 9:22 pm

I know there's somewhat about this, but it's for some one who MAY get a job. I already have a 40hour a week job. I want to know what other people have done to make studying easier.

I've got the basics down and am going to be taking the June 2013 test. I don't need work on any really specific section now, but more so just general practice. I'm still averaging mid 160s. I have a job that's pretty high pressure, so I'm just kind of mentally drained when I get home after work. However, I still do time sections, usually 1-2 a day. The issue is that I'll still make careless mistakes and get things wrong, typically averaging 3/5 wrong a section. Any tips for beating this? I'm thinking of just drinking coffee or something before doing the sections to give me the extra boost. Attention to detail is just SO important for this test that being mentally tired really puts one at a severe disadvantage.

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objection_your_honor
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Re: Tips for studying and working full time?

Postby objection_your_honor » Wed Apr 24, 2013 9:28 pm

It can be difficult. I took the test last year and am retaking this year. Overall, I have spent about a year in prep. You have to give yourself enough time, but slow and steady will get you there.

I've taken a PT every Saturday and every Sunday since February. I review and drill during the week.

In the end, do what you can during the week, but remember that one day of well-rested, fully-alert studying beats out three days of half-studying. Don't be afraid to stay away from LSAT stuff every now and then.

03152016
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Re: Tips for studying and working full time?

Postby 03152016 » Wed Apr 24, 2013 11:11 pm

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Skill Game
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Re: Tips for studying and working full time?

Postby Skill Game » Thu Apr 25, 2013 9:12 am

It would probably be a lot better to study before work.

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tuffyjohnson
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Re: Tips for studying and working full time?

Postby tuffyjohnson » Thu Apr 25, 2013 9:19 am

Good to know I'm not the only one. Hang in there. I work full-time/3 small kids.

Mon-Thurs: kids to bed at 8:30pm and study 8:45-10pm
Fri-Sat study from 9:15 am to 12:30 pm
Sunday Study 1.5 hours before church 1 hour after church

This gives me about 14 hours. Yes, I wish I had more time. I also take a timed section here and there during lunch at work or if I get a spare 35 minutes that was unexpected before or after work. I keep flash cards of conditional rules in my pocket that I drill (keep forgetting that ONLY presents the necessary and that ANY presents the sufficient).

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guano
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Re: Tips for studying and working full time?

Postby guano » Thu Apr 25, 2013 9:29 am

Deal with it?

I was working roughly 60 hours a week and had a young child while studying for the LSAT.

The best advise is to start prepping earlier than everyone else, and be more diligent about it

LSATGamesTutor
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Re: Tips for studying and working full time?

Postby LSATGamesTutor » Thu Apr 25, 2013 12:10 pm

Not only do you not need to dedicate hours at a time to studying for the LSAT, but I'd recommend that you don't. Do one game or one RC passage or 5-6 LR questions whenever you've got a few minutes to spare. Just make sure that you mix up which questions you're doing (don't always do the first 6 LR questions in a section).

Some times you can fit in studying for an LSAT:
-commercial breaks
-while eating breakfast
-while on the toilet
-while in the bath
-in lieu of surfing the internet at work
-right before bed
-many more...

Good luck.

03152016
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Re: Tips for studying and working full time?

Postby 03152016 » Thu Apr 25, 2013 12:29 pm

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Last edited by 03152016 on Tue Mar 15, 2016 6:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.

LSATGamesTutor
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Re: Tips for studying and working full time?

Postby LSATGamesTutor » Thu Apr 25, 2013 12:39 pm

Max324 wrote:doing a few LR questions on line in the bank is fine, but it's no substitute for a real drilling session where you can cover dozens of questions and really analyze for patterns. It's certainly no substitute for PTs.

OP, I'm not sure what this guy's motives are (or if he's just a really committed troll), but I recommend you ignore his advice.


Thanks for the kind words! Apparently you must do dozens of questions at a time, otherwise you will not be able to "really analyze for patterns".

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guano
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Re: Tips for studying and working full time?

Postby guano » Thu Apr 25, 2013 12:39 pm

Additionally, spending too much time studying on the toilet can lead to hemarhoids

03152016
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Re: Tips for studying and working full time?

Postby 03152016 » Thu Apr 25, 2013 12:56 pm

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Midas Whale
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Re: Tips for studying and working full time?

Postby Midas Whale » Thu Apr 25, 2013 1:04 pm

Max324 wrote:
LSATGamesTutor wrote:Not only do you not need to dedicate hours at a time to studying for the LSAT, but I'd recommend that you don't. Do one game or one RC passage or 5-6 LR questions whenever you've got a few minutes to spare. Just make sure that you mix up which questions you're doing (don't always do the first 6 LR questions in a section).

Some times you can fit in studying for an LSAT:
-commercial breaks
-while eating breakfast
-while on the toilet
-while in the bath
-in lieu of surfing the internet at work
-right before bed
-many more...

Good luck,
Nope, not going to plug your site

You posted something similar in another thread (which I just responded to: http://top-law-schools.com/forums/viewt ... 6&t=208667). My advice in that thread applies here as well -- doing a few LR questions on line in the bank is fine, but it's no substitute for a real drilling session where you can cover dozens of questions and really analyze for patterns. It's certainly no substitute for PTs.

OP, I'm not sure what this guy's motives are (or if he's just a really committed troll), but I recommend you ignore his advice.


Yeah I'm just gonna echo what Max said, this is fucking terrible advice. Doing a few problems at work or during your commute can't hurt as a supplement but you really need to do full sections/extensive drilling by question type/full PTs to make any significant progress.

Also, having worked full time while studying for the LSATs, I will say that you shouldn't have too many commercial breaks as TV should be one of the first recreational activities to cut.

LSATGamesTutor
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Re: Tips for studying and working full time?

Postby LSATGamesTutor » Thu Apr 25, 2013 2:24 pm

Rather than making unsubstantiated claims about what must be done in order to do well on the LSAT, let's provide some helpful advice to people studying for the test. I'm assuming that people like linkx13 and tuffyjohnson don't want to have miserable lives by allowing themselves little time to do anything but work and study for the LSAT. Just because you felt you had to do this doesn't mean it was necessary. When the time you have available for something is limited, efficiency is very important.

I believe that doing 5-6 questions at a time is the most efficient way to study. It's unconventional and seems to bring out the wrath of people who studied from 10pm-2am "fueled by a tremendous amount of coffee and Red Bull" and prepped "through the sunrise", but that doesn't mean it's wrong.

If you want to do well on the LSAT, you need to be able to answer each question correctly and quickly. If you're not answering a question correctly and quickly, then there's room to learn something and improve. I believe that the most efficient way to learn and retain that something is to figure it out while the question is still fresh in your mind and you have the energy to focus on learning. If a person is doing 25 or 100 questions at a time before discovering that something, then the questions will not be fresh in that person's mind. Furthermore, if a person waits until after doing a section or a full pt, then that person will be tired when reviewing questions, and will find it harder to concentrate on learning. Also, when a person has made more than a handful of mistakes on an LSAT, it's much harder to properly concentrate on each question being reviewed if one has to review the 10+ (or whatever) answers he or she either got wrong or wasn't sure about than just reviewing the perhaps 1 or 2 questions a person got wrong or wasn't sure about out of the 5-6.

As for whether doing 5-6 questions at a time is sufficient, I believe it is, but would recommend occasionally doing full sections and even less occasionally doing a full test so you can measure your progress and get an idea of what it's like to answer 25 or 100 questions at a time. If a person can answer 6 questions correctly in 7 minutes, it doesn't take a leap of faith to believe that a person could answer 25 questions correctly in 35 minutes.

JDeezy
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Re: Tips for studying and working full time?

Postby JDeezy » Thu Apr 25, 2013 2:43 pm

Haven't read all the replies, but I worked full time and exceeded my target score.

Started studying ~4.5 months before.

First few weeks: Went through LG bible, in depth, at my own pace
Next few weeks: Went through LR bible, in depth, at my own pace (mix in LG)
Next few weeks: Read the RC passages from PTs 1-20, did the questions untimed (mix LG)

All the above is do-able averaging about an hour per day. I tried to wake up early and get some practice in before work.

Edit: Forgot that I spent about a month drilling before went into PTs. "Drilling" often meant one or two timed sections. Other times I just worked out of the Cambridge LR packets.

After that, start PTing 2ish times per week, drilling for an hour or so if you have time on non-PT days. You can start PTing untimed if needed.

If you start studying 4-5 months before the test, there's no reason you can't put in sufficient time studying and maintain a similar lifestyle.

If you're starting studying now, maybe wait til October instead of cramming for June? Personal decision though...

Don't take the test if you feel like you haven't hit your peak.

03152016
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Re: Tips for studying and working full time?

Postby 03152016 » Thu Apr 25, 2013 2:58 pm

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mlansky
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Re: Tips for studying and working full time?

Postby mlansky » Thu Apr 25, 2013 3:38 pm

Routine, OP, routine. If you're really beat at 5pm (and you're not just convincing yourself that you've worked a full day and, since working a full day tires most men out, you're probably tired) then you'll have to sort out your priorities. Get up at 4am and study for a few hours, then go to work and get to sleep earlier, if that's what it takes. You might not need to, but the guy who said he was assuming you didn't want a "miserable life by allowing yourself little time to do anything but work and study for the LSAT" wasn't, I hope, implying that it would be overkill to do so.

Think of it this way: if the next 6 weeks are completely miserable, your gf thinks you don't care about her and starts talking to her ex and your parents think you're a fuck-up because you hit a parked car, causing you to miss your sister's wedding due to sleep deprivation after you have a hard time making rent because you ran yourself into the ground and your employer won't give you sick pay BUT- on July 5th you see a 179, will it have been worth it?

ETA- this erupting argument about whether or not it's a bad idea to do most of your prep in <10 minute study sessions is a joke, right? Imagine someone prepping for a marathon by squeezing in a mile whenever they got a chance.
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NoodleyOne
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Re: Tips for studying and working full time?

Postby NoodleyOne » Thu Apr 25, 2013 3:42 pm

Max324 wrote:
LSATGamesTutor wrote:Rather than making unsubstantiated claims about what must be done in order to do well on the LSAT, let's provide some helpful advice to people studying for the test. I'm assuming that people like linkx13 and tuffyjohnson don't want to have miserable lives by allowing themselves little time to do anything but work and study for the LSAT. Just because you felt you had to do this doesn't mean it was necessary. When the time you have available for something is limited, efficiency is very important.

I believe that doing 5-6 questions at a time is the most efficient way to study. It's unconventional and seems to bring out the wrath of people who studied from 10pm-2am "fueled by a tremendous amount of coffee and Red Bull" and prepped "through the sunrise", but that doesn't mean it's wrong.

If you want to do well on the LSAT, you need to be able to answer each question correctly and quickly. If you're not answering a question correctly and quickly, then there's room to learn something and improve. I believe that the most efficient way to learn and retain that something is to figure it out while the question is still fresh in your mind and you have the energy to focus on learning. If a person is doing 25 or 100 questions at a time before discovering that something, then the questions will not be fresh in that person's mind. Furthermore, if a person waits until after doing a section or a full pt, then that person will be tired when reviewing questions, and will find it harder to concentrate on learning. Also, when a person has made more than a handful of mistakes on an LSAT, it's much harder to properly concentrate on each question being reviewed if one has to review the 10+ (or whatever) answers he or she either got wrong or wasn't sure about than just reviewing the perhaps 1 or 2 questions a person got wrong or wasn't sure about out of the 5-6.

As for whether doing 5-6 questions at a time is sufficient, I believe it is, but would recommend occasionally doing full sections and even less occasionally doing a full test so you can measure your progress and get an idea of what it's like to answer 25 or 100 questions at a time. If a person can answer 6 questions correctly in 7 minutes, it doesn't take a leap of faith to believe that a person could answer 25 questions correctly in 35 minutes.

In my post discussing my study habits, I made it clear that I don't recommend that other people follow my hours. If you're going to be an LSAT tutor, you should learn to read carefully. I know that's difficult for you, but please consider that the advice you give on this forum could make a real difference in people's scores. People could screw up their admission chances if they follow your awful advice.

Lest anyone actually take this clown seriously, lets all take a moment to consider the irony here: LSATGamesTutor goes on a rant about how it is "unsubstantiated" that LSAT students need to prep for more than a few minutes at a time. Then, with the intellectual vigor of an elderly mastiff, he launches into a purported defense that has almost nothing to do with the topic at hand. Yes, you can review answers immediately after answering them even during lengthier drilling sessions. Yes, you can learn from taking full PTs with separate review sessions; there are literally hundreds of posts on TLS attesting to this. No, answering six questions in seven minutes doesn't mean you can answer 25 questions in 35 minutes; it's much more difficult to complete dozens of questions back to back. It is his claim, in fact, that is completely unsubstantiated.

So why don't we try to introduce some evidence into this enlightening argument. 170+ scorers of TLS, did you prep a few minutes at a time, or did you prep in lengthier sessions (say, a half hour or longer)?

My issue here is I feel that LSATGamesTutor is here to advertise, which his profile reveals. I do my own tutoring, and I know BP, Max, and the Manhattan guys do their own tutoring and classes as well, but I don't like using this place as a platform to advertise, especially without the "cred" of a lot of the other guys tutoring on here have. I know Max... I studied with him and know he's legit, so I would lean toward taking his advice over a guy with an adplant name with 12 posts on the forum.

Personally, I think one of the most important things to learn for the test is stamina, and that can't be done doing 6 minutes at a time. The LSAT is a 3+ hour marathon, not a sprint.

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Re: Tips for studying and working full time?

Postby LSATGamesTutor » Thu Apr 25, 2013 3:52 pm

You wrote that those 4 hour long coffee and Red Bull sessions and those times spent prepping through the sunrise were what you had to do given your work hours. If you say you had to put in 4 hour sessions, then aren't you also implicitly saying that other people that work and have a similar amount of time available also have to put in 4 hour sessions if they want to do as well as you? Kinda like a recommendation? What did you mean by writing that you had to do something to do well but wouldn't recommend that others do it?

I don't think it's necessary to devote such a large block of time to studying for the LSAT. If you want to do that, great. Not everyone wants to or has the time available to do that. I believe that you can study just as well or better in shorter increments as you can in longer increments. If you've only got 10 minutes available, you can still get effective studying done in that time. If you've got more time available, you can do more than one set of 5-6 questions. I'm sorry if I made it seem as though I was recommending that people stop studying after doing 5-6 questions and reviewing the answers.

If you'd like to post the reasons why study sessions should be long, go for it. It helps with your endurance, sure... but for the reasons I wrote above, I think it also negatively affects your success at learning and retaining the information that helps you improve when you review. I believe the negative effect of the latter outweighs the positive effect of the former, and that it's preferable to study in shorter increments.

03152016
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Re: Tips for studying and working full time?

Postby 03152016 » Thu Apr 25, 2013 5:31 pm

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Mik Ekim
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Re: Tips for studying and working full time?

Postby Mik Ekim » Thu Apr 25, 2013 6:33 pm

This thread has become quite enjoyable.

BTW -- I support getting up early in the morning before everything else and getting in a good hour or two or prep -- I'm sure your brain is fried at the end of workday/kids.

Uncle Ruslan
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Re: Tips for studying and working full time?

Postby Uncle Ruslan » Thu Apr 25, 2013 10:25 pm

If I could do mornings I would do mornings.
My day today:

7-12: work
lunch: drill
1-5: work
5-6: food
6-10: take/review PT

This fast-paced legal writing/editing job makes me feel like my entire day is preparation for the LSAT. I suppose you could break it up into big or little chunks, but you have to put the time in. Brain drain sucks, but you might as well get used to it in anticipation of law school and practice - I'd rather have this than a daddy-subsidized summer off. That last part was a lie. I can't imagine adding kids to the equation.

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stuckinthemiddle
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Re: Tips for studying and working full time?

Postby stuckinthemiddle » Thu Apr 25, 2013 10:30 pm

I work full-time and am prepping for a June retake.

I think prepping in the morning is crucial. Get yourself used to shaking of the grogginess because the real test will probably be in the early morning.

Also, if you have enough time, I'd suggest only taking your full tests on weekends. On any other day, do an old LG section or an old LR section while studying and reviewing your test and what you got wrong/right.

Good Luck!

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wtrc
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Re: Tips for studying and working full time?

Postby wtrc » Fri Apr 26, 2013 10:47 am

I work full-time (10-6, 30 minute commute on both ends if I am coming from/going straight home).

Fortunately, my job is often relaxed and I can fit a section in on some days during work or lunch.

Otherwise, I go straight to a cafe after work 3 or 4 days a week now, since I'm taking June and it's just around the corner. Study from 630-830. Go home, sometimes study a bit more (but often tell myself I will and then don't). Also use weekends to the fullest- with at least one PT and then review or drilling.

Planning on starting to study a bit in the mornings as well now that the test is so close.

I am (was) PTing at a score I was comfortable with. My schedule was really meant to maintain that score. I then went away for a week and didn't study and had a really disappointing score yesterday. Might need to mix up my schedule now, but hoping it was just an anomaly.

Mik Ekim
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Re: Tips for studying and working full time?

Postby Mik Ekim » Fri Apr 26, 2013 12:05 pm

I think someone else posted this on tls a while back -- thought it might be helpful here -- http://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/19 ... _athletic/

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LSAT Blog
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Re: Tips for studying and working full time?

Postby LSAT Blog » Fri Apr 26, 2013 12:15 pm

Mik Ekim wrote:This thread has become quite enjoyable.

BTW -- I support getting up early in the morning before everything else and getting in a good hour or two or prep -- I'm sure your brain is fried at the end of workday/kids.


+1

Just be aware of sleep inertia (I have a post on my site about this).

Try to do something else before you begin your studying (shower, walk the dog, prepare food) just to put a little bit of time between waking up and opening the books.




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