I'm really getting frustrated, I DROPPED 11 points

MiracleNeeded
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I'm really getting frustrated, I DROPPED 11 points

Postby MiracleNeeded » Tue Mar 19, 2013 2:32 pm

I took a break from studying today. Yesterday I took my second LSAT prep test and did worse than ever with a 130.

Once again, the time is killing me. I was able to get 9 or 10 game questions done. games are a disaster. i missed a full passage on reading comp, and 4 questions on the 3rd passage.

While my logical reasoning were faster this time, and I finished one with 5 minutes to spare, the other one I fell short by 4 questions and did worse than I ever have on LR.


Should I just stop doing full length tests for a while?

I keep hearing to slow down and look for accuracy and I will, maybe taking the whole exam again tomorrow with no time limit looking to be perfect. But how do you speed up from there? Any good methods for increasing speed?

I keep trying to find common ground between things I'm familiar with where speed and accuracy are key. Like Brazilian Jiu Jitsu, and target shooting, you drill slowly, get your form down and speed it up, but how does that translate to a test?
Last edited by MiracleNeeded on Tue Mar 19, 2013 3:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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ManOfTheMinute
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Re: I'm really getting frustrated, I DROPPED 11 points

Postby ManOfTheMinute » Tue Mar 19, 2013 2:36 pm

Sounds like you need to start at the building blocks and work your way up.

Get the bibles, and drill them (esp. for the games)
Read the Economist, WSJ, Atlantic, etc.
Get the bibles, and drill them (esp. for the games)

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fruitoftheloom
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Re: I'm really getting frustrated, I DROPPED 11 points

Postby fruitoftheloom » Tue Mar 19, 2013 2:44 pm

Also, I found it really helpful when I started to take sections without a timer and focus on accuracy. Speed will come with time as you start knowing the sections well enough to anticipate questions (esp. in logic games/reading). Take sections and give yourself a break because you're basically teaching yourself to think the way you need to. Keep in mind that you absolutely need to save probably 10-20 tests or so to take as entire tests.

My recommendation:
1) Get the bibles (or whatever other method you prefer) and work through those. Drill after each section w/ tests 1-30 (ish). Don't exhaust the tests for drilling though.
2) After you've finished your first bible, alternate between doing 1 entire section of tests 30-45 and working on the next bible.
3) Keep drilling when you get questions wrong.
4) After you've finished with the bibles and have a good idea of what you're doing and/or they're looking for, begin taking full tests. If the clock stresses you (and it did me) instead of setting a timer yourself for the first several tests, set a stop watch to see how long it takes you (and thus how much you need to shave off).
5) At least a month before the test begin taking full, timed exams and scoring them. Thoroughly review any questions you get wrong and drill that type of question. Use one of the websites (lsatqa.com ?) to track the type of questions you get wrong on a regular basis.

MiracleNeeded
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Re: I'm really getting frustrated, I DROPPED 11 points

Postby MiracleNeeded » Tue Mar 19, 2013 3:06 pm

Thanks guys. I have all three bibles, test number 63, and the 10 test book.

The stop watch idea sounds like a good one.

I've been jumping around all three bibles without finishing one. I started with the LG bible, got to grouping then moved on to LR, finished a chapter, then moved on to reading comp with 3 chapters to go. I committed a lot of time to reading comp since it was my worst portion on my first diagnostic.

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objection_your_honor
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Re: I'm really getting frustrated, I DROPPED 11 points

Postby objection_your_honor » Tue Mar 19, 2013 3:38 pm

You need to go through the bibles or MLSAT guides, one at a time, chapter by chapter, and drill questions of ONLY THE TYPE COVERED IN THAT CHAPTER until you are confident in your ability to handle it. No jumping around.

So, for example, when you read about basic linear games, print off every single basic linear game released between PTs 1-38 and do them at least 3 times each. Then move on to the next chapter and the next associated game type. Flag any games you still have problems with, and come back to them over and over again in the course of your prep. This will take one month.

Do the same with LR. Learn how to tackle ONLY sufficient assumption questions, and do every question of that type released between PTs 1-38. Work through them untimed and make sure you thoroughly understand any mistakes you make. Only then can you move on to the next chapter and the next associated question type. This will take another month.

Print out every RC passage between PTs 1-38 and do a section every other day.

Only after you've done all of that over the course of about 2 months should you move on to taking actual preptests.

You need to learn this test from the ground up; it takes a very particular kind of individual to just pick this up over the course of a few PTs, and your 130 demonstrates that you aren't that kind of individual. Welcome to the club. Put in the work and I promise you will see results.

EDIT: As for your analogy with martial arts — when it comes time for a particular form, move, punch, kick, jab, grab, whatever — you want to execute it as precisely and as efficiently as possible. These things need to be learned individually before deploying them in concert. Right now you're trying to jump in the ring before even knowing how to stand correctly, much less throw a punch.

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tuffyjohnson
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Re: I'm really getting frustrated, I DROPPED 11 points

Postby tuffyjohnson » Tue Mar 19, 2013 4:22 pm

objection_your_honor wrote:You need to go through the bibles or MLSAT guides, one at a time, chapter by chapter, and drill questions of ONLY THE TYPE COVERED IN THAT CHAPTER until you are confident in your ability to handle it. No jumping around.

So, for example, when you read about basic linear games, print off every single basic linear game released between PTs 1-38 and do them at least 3 times each. Then move on to the next chapter and the next associated game type. Flag any games you still have problems with, and come back to them over and over again in the course of your prep. This will take one month.

Do the same with LR. Learn how to tackle ONLY sufficient assumption questions, and do every question of that type released between PTs 1-38. Work through them untimed and make sure you thoroughly understand any mistakes you make. Only then can you move on to the next chapter and the next associated question type. This will take another month.

Print out every RC passage between PTs 1-38 and do a section every other day.

Only after you've done all of that over the course of about 2 months should you move on to taking actual preptests.

You need to learn this test from the ground up; it takes a very particular kind of individual to just pick this up over the course of a few PTs, and your 130 demonstrates that you aren't that kind of individual. Welcome to the club. Put in the work and I promise you will see results.

EDIT: As for your analogy with martial arts — when it comes time for a particular form, move, punch, kick, jab, grab, whatever — you want to execute it as precisely and as efficiently as possible. These things need to be learned individually before deploying them in concert. Right now you're trying to jump in the ring before even knowing how to stand correctly, much less throw a punch.


This is good, thanks.

MiracleNeeded
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Re: I'm really getting frustrated, I DROPPED 11 points

Postby MiracleNeeded » Tue Mar 19, 2013 5:23 pm

objection_your_honor wrote:You need to go through the bibles or MLSAT guides, one at a time, chapter by chapter, and drill questions of ONLY THE TYPE COVERED IN THAT CHAPTER until you are confident in your ability to handle it. No jumping around.

So, for example, when you read about basic linear games, print off every single basic linear game released between PTs 1-38 and do them at least 3 times each. Then move on to the next chapter and the next associated game type. Flag any games you still have problems with, and come back to them over and over again in the course of your prep. This will take one month.

Do the same with LR. Learn how to tackle ONLY sufficient assumption questions, and do every question of that type released between PTs 1-38. Work through them untimed and make sure you thoroughly understand any mistakes you make. Only then can you move on to the next chapter and the next associated question type. This will take another month.

Print out every RC passage between PTs 1-38 and do a section every other day.

Only after you've done all of that over the course of about 2 months should you move on to taking actual preptests.

You need to learn this test from the ground up; it takes a very particular kind of individual to just pick this up over the course of a few PTs, and your 130 demonstrates that you aren't that kind of individual. Welcome to the club. Put in the work and I promise you will see results.

EDIT: As for your analogy with martial arts — when it comes time for a particular form, move, punch, kick, jab, grab, whatever — you want to execute it as precisely and as efficiently as possible. These things need to be learned individually before deploying them in concert. Right now you're trying to jump in the ring before even knowing how to stand correctly, much less throw a punch.


Thanks again Objection.

My score shows that I'm not exactly bright, so to be clear, should I take a month for each game type, or for the entire LG bible? Same goes for LR, a month for the book, or a month for each question type?

I have about 6 1/2 months before the October LSAT, so I assume it isn't the latter. I guess I'll revisit the LG Bible and try to master the lbasic linear games. I kinda sorta got it before I moved on to advanced linear which I never really got before moving on to grouping I've only been at this for 13 days, so yeah, I have moved kind of fast.

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objection_your_honor
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Re: I'm really getting frustrated, I DROPPED 11 points

Postby objection_your_honor » Tue Mar 19, 2013 5:32 pm

MiracleNeeded wrote:Thanks again Objection.

My score shows that I'm not exactly bright, so to be clear, should I take a month for each game type, or for the entire LG bible? Same goes for LR, a month for the book, or a month for each question type?

I have about 6 1/2 months before the October LSAT, so I assume it isn't the latter. I guess I'll revisit the LG Bible and try to master the lbasic linear games. I kinda sorta got it before I moved on to advanced linear which I never really got before moving on to grouping I've only been at this for 13 days, so yeah, I have moved kind of fast.


It's not about being bright. My comment was just that to most, it doesn't come naturally.

And it should take about one month, depending on your schedule, to get through one of the bibles/guides while drilling to proficiency. This means you'll be dedicating an average of 3-5 days solely to a particular game or question type until you're prepared to move on. You have enough time, but you can't sell yourself short.

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fruitoftheloom
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Re: I'm really getting frustrated, I DROPPED 11 points

Postby fruitoftheloom » Tue Mar 19, 2013 6:00 pm

objection_your_honor wrote:You need to go through the bibles or MLSAT guides, one at a time, chapter by chapter, and drill questions of ONLY THE TYPE COVERED IN THAT CHAPTER until you are confident in your ability to handle it. No jumping around.

So, for example, when you read about basic linear games, print off every single basic linear game released between PTs 1-38 and do them at least 3 times each. Then move on to the next chapter and the next associated game type. Flag any games you still have problems with, and come back to them over and over again in the course of your prep. This will take one month.

Do the same with LR. Learn how to tackle ONLY sufficient assumption questions, and do every question of that type released between PTs 1-38. Work through them untimed and make sure you thoroughly understand any mistakes you make. Only then can you move on to the next chapter and the next associated question type. This will take another month.

Print out every RC passage between PTs 1-38 and do a section every other day.

Only after you've done all of that over the course of about 2 months should you move on to taking actual preptests.

You need to learn this test from the ground up; it takes a very particular kind of individual to just pick this up over the course of a few PTs, and your 130 demonstrates that you aren't that kind of individual. Welcome to the club. Put in the work and I promise you will see results.

EDIT: As for your analogy with martial arts — when it comes time for a particular form, move, punch, kick, jab, grab, whatever — you want to execute it as precisely and as efficiently as possible. These things need to be learned individually before deploying them in concert. Right now you're trying to jump in the ring before even knowing how to stand correctly, much less throw a punch.


My only comment for this is that when I did that I would forget the items I learned before. So although I would be focusing/studying LR, I would also do a game or two every day just to keep that fresh in my mind. It can be recycled, you just don't want to fall back while you're moving on to a different part of the test.

MiracleNeeded
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Re: I'm really getting frustrated, I DROPPED 11 points

Postby MiracleNeeded » Tue Mar 19, 2013 6:30 pm

objection_your_honor wrote:
MiracleNeeded wrote:Thanks again Objection.

My score shows that I'm not exactly bright, so to be clear, should I take a month for each game type, or for the entire LG bible? Same goes for LR, a month for the book, or a month for each question type?

I have about 6 1/2 months before the October LSAT, so I assume it isn't the latter. I guess I'll revisit the LG Bible and try to master the lbasic linear games. I kinda sorta got it before I moved on to advanced linear which I never really got before moving on to grouping I've only been at this for 13 days, so yeah, I have moved kind of fast.


It's not about being bright. My comment was just that to most, it doesn't come naturally.

And it should take about one month, depending on your schedule, to get through one of the bibles/guides while drilling to proficiency. This means you'll be dedicating an average of 3-5 days solely to a particular game or question type until you're prepared to move on. You have enough time, but you can't sell yourself short.


Oh, no worries, I didn't mean anything by the "not bright" comment, I know you weren't being mean to me or anything, I just wanted to poke fun at myself for not fully understanding your post. So, tomorrow, I go back to the LG Bible. Today I watch TV for the first time in two weeks.

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objection_your_honor
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Re: I'm really getting frustrated, I DROPPED 11 points

Postby objection_your_honor » Tue Mar 19, 2013 10:13 pm

fruitoftheloom wrote:
objection_your_honor wrote:You need to go through the bibles or MLSAT guides, one at a time, chapter by chapter, and drill questions of ONLY THE TYPE COVERED IN THAT CHAPTER until you are confident in your ability to handle it. No jumping around.

So, for example, when you read about basic linear games, print off every single basic linear game released between PTs 1-38 and do them at least 3 times each. Then move on to the next chapter and the next associated game type. Flag any games you still have problems with, and come back to them over and over again in the course of your prep. This will take one month.

Do the same with LR. Learn how to tackle ONLY sufficient assumption questions, and do every question of that type released between PTs 1-38. Work through them untimed and make sure you thoroughly understand any mistakes you make. Only then can you move on to the next chapter and the next associated question type. This will take another month.

Print out every RC passage between PTs 1-38 and do a section every other day.

Only after you've done all of that over the course of about 2 months should you move on to taking actual preptests.

You need to learn this test from the ground up; it takes a very particular kind of individual to just pick this up over the course of a few PTs, and your 130 demonstrates that you aren't that kind of individual. Welcome to the club. Put in the work and I promise you will see results.

EDIT: As for your analogy with martial arts — when it comes time for a particular form, move, punch, kick, jab, grab, whatever — you want to execute it as precisely and as efficiently as possible. These things need to be learned individually before deploying them in concert. Right now you're trying to jump in the ring before even knowing how to stand correctly, much less throw a punch.


My only comment for this is that when I did that I would forget the items I learned before. So although I would be focusing/studying LR, I would also do a game or two every day just to keep that fresh in my mind. It can be recycled, you just don't want to fall back while you're moving on to a different part of the test.


Good point.

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tuffyjohnson
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Re: I'm really getting frustrated, I DROPPED 11 points

Postby tuffyjohnson » Wed Mar 20, 2013 8:32 am

fruitoftheloom wrote:
objection_your_honor wrote:My only comment for this is that when I did that I would forget the items I learned before. So although I would be focusing/studying LR, I would also do a game or two every day just to keep that fresh in my mind. It can be recycled, you just don't want to fall back while you're moving on to a different part of the test.


Yes, this. I actually made it through advanced linear in two weeks after doing about 25 of them so I moved on to grouping. Worked on grouping exclusively for about a week and lost my edge in advanced linear. I guess I'm in the club too

One other thing. The new Blueprint book has a cool feature that aids with this very thing we're talking about. In the back of the book every single LG is listed with description and difficulty rating. It also tells you which games were one-offs and which ones to focus on from years prior PT's.

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jvincent11
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Re: I'm really getting frustrated, I DROPPED 11 points

Postby jvincent11 » Wed Mar 20, 2013 8:49 am

If you have the money, take a course. TestMasters did wonders for me 145 ---> 168

Scoring low on this test is not indicative of your intelligence, and I'm not sure self studying is the most effective way to prepare for someone who starts out below 150

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wtrc
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Re: I'm really getting frustrated, I DROPPED 11 points

Postby wtrc » Wed Mar 20, 2013 9:05 am

jvincent11 wrote:If you have the money, take a course. TestMasters did wonders for me 145 ---> 168

Scoring low on this test is not indicative of your intelligence, and I'm not sure self studying is the most effective way to prepare for someone who starts out below 150


Agreed on both these counts.

A course won't help you get a 180. But it will help you get the fundamental foundation that you need for self-study.

And a low score is definitely not an indicator of low intelligence, by any means.

MiracleNeeded
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Re: I'm really getting frustrated, I DROPPED 11 points

Postby MiracleNeeded » Wed Mar 20, 2013 5:39 pm

jvincent11 wrote:If you have the money, take a course. TestMasters did wonders for me 145 ---> 168

Scoring low on this test is not indicative of your intelligence, and I'm not sure self studying is the most effective way to prepare for someone who starts out below 150


Two questions:

1. is TestMasters similar enough to powerscore so that I'm not relearning a radically new system? You're like the 5th person to recommend them in a week.

2. Should I take the course now, and self study 3 months out?

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jvincent11
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Re: I'm really getting frustrated, I DROPPED 11 points

Postby jvincent11 » Wed Mar 20, 2013 7:57 pm

MiracleNeeded wrote:
jvincent11 wrote:If you have the money, take a course. TestMasters did wonders for me 145 ---> 168

Scoring low on this test is not indicative of your intelligence, and I'm not sure self studying is the most effective way to prepare for someone who starts out below 150


Two questions:

1. is TestMasters similar enough to powerscore so that I'm not relearning a radically new system? You're like the 5th person to recommend them in a week.

2. Should I take the course now, and self study 3 months out?


I don't know much about powerscore, but I heard Powerscore was created by someone who helped create TM, and that they are very very similar. TM will cover everything you need to know, and they give you more practice problems than you know what to do with. If you decide to take TM, be confident that you can VASTLY improve your score.

I'm worried that finishing the course 3 months before your exam is too long. Ideally the course would end 3-4 weeks before the test so you have plenty of time to do as many PTs as you can, but they usually set it up to end a week before the exam. When are you taking the test?

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fruitoftheloom
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Re: I'm really getting frustrated, I DROPPED 11 points

Postby fruitoftheloom » Wed Mar 20, 2013 8:17 pm

FYI - the owner of test masters is suing TLS and a former moderator. Do you want to support a company that wants to shut this site down?

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Dr. Dre
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Re: I'm really getting frustrated, I DROPPED 11 points

Postby Dr. Dre » Wed Mar 20, 2013 10:01 pm

fruitoftheloom wrote:FYI - the owner of test masters is suing TLS and a former moderator. Do you want to support a company that wants to shut this site down?

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Dr. Dre
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Re: I'm really getting frustrated, I DROPPED 11 points

Postby Dr. Dre » Wed Mar 20, 2013 10:02 pm

Manhattan LSAT is best

MiracleNeeded
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Re: I'm really getting frustrated, I DROPPED 11 points

Postby MiracleNeeded » Wed Mar 20, 2013 10:37 pm

jvincent11 wrote:
MiracleNeeded wrote:
jvincent11 wrote:If you have the money, take a course. TestMasters did wonders for me 145 ---> 168

Scoring low on this test is not indicative of your intelligence, and I'm not sure self studying is the most effective way to prepare for someone who starts out below 150


Two questions:

1. is TestMasters similar enough to powerscore so that I'm not relearning a radically new system? You're like the 5th person to recommend them in a week.

2. Should I take the course now, and self study 3 months out?


I don't know much about powerscore, but I heard Powerscore was created by someone who helped create TM, and that they are very very similar. TM will cover everything you need to know, and they give you more practice problems than you know what to do with. If you decide to take TM, be confident that you can VASTLY improve your score.

I'm worried that finishing the course 3 months before your exam is too long. Ideally the course would end 3-4 weeks before the test so you have plenty of time to do as many PTs as you can, but they usually set it up to end a week before the exam. When are you taking the test?


Yeah, that was my worry, to have the class end that long before taking the exam. I plan to take the Oct LSAT.

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Varys
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Re: I'm really getting frustrated, I DROPPED 11 points

Postby Varys » Fri Mar 22, 2013 9:25 am

There is some good information in this thread. It seems like I went about studying for the LSAT incorrectly. I got all three Powerscore Bibles, Princeton Review's Cracking the LSAT, and Nathan Fox Cheating/Breaking the LSAT. The Fox test books were not helpful at all, the Princeton Review book was a little better, but even though I think I might have gone through the Powerscore books too quickly, they were still the best.

I would go through each Powerscore book in about 2 or 3 days then do prep test sections to practice those questions. So it sounds like the better way to do is is to do one Powerscore Bible at a time, one problem-type section at a time, then drill that specific type of problem over the course of a few days?

I'm now PTing around 160. Would it be best to start over with the Powerscore Bibles to make sure I've really got a solid foundation then move onto Manhattan LSAT? I've got all the time in the world to prepare. Sorry, I don't mean to hijack the thread.

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objection_your_honor
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Re: I'm really getting frustrated, I DROPPED 11 points

Postby objection_your_honor » Fri Mar 22, 2013 12:30 pm

Varys wrote:I'm now PTing around 160. Would it be best to start over with the Powerscore Bibles to make sure I've really got a solid foundation then move onto Manhattan LSAT? I've got all the time in the world to prepare. Sorry, I don't mean to hijack the thread.


I've done both and prefer Manhattan (although PS is helpful). I think it'd be fine if you moved onto MLSAT right away. And yes, if you're PT'ing around 160 you will definitely see improvements using the drill-by-type approach. Cambridge has books/pdfs that arrange LR problems by type which are very helpful for this method.

Good luck.

Joeshan520
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Re: I'm really getting frustrated, I DROPPED 11 points

Postby Joeshan520 » Sat Mar 23, 2013 3:32 pm

Honestly, I would agree with those that mentioned taking a course. I'm taking Blueprint The Movie at the moment and while I find this test to be extremely frustrating, I do like the structure and the amount of practice they provide. There is no use in doing something the same way over and over that's not working.

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Clearly
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Re: I'm really getting frustrated, I DROPPED 11 points

Postby Clearly » Sat Mar 23, 2013 3:35 pm

Velocity Lsat

MiracleNeeded
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Re: I'm really getting frustrated, I DROPPED 11 points

Postby MiracleNeeded » Sat Mar 23, 2013 5:23 pm

objection_your_honor wrote:
Varys wrote:I'm now PTing around 160. Would it be best to start over with the Powerscore Bibles to make sure I've really got a solid foundation then move onto Manhattan LSAT? I've got all the time in the world to prepare. Sorry, I don't mean to hijack the thread.


I've done both and prefer Manhattan (although PS is helpful). I think it'd be fine if you moved onto MLSAT right away. And yes, if you're PT'ing around 160 you will definitely see improvements using the drill-by-type approach. Cambridge has books/pdfs that arrange LR problems by type which are very helpful for this method.

Good luck.


I got the MLSAT kindle LG book. It really is great, with some nice new ways of looking at the LG. I must say, if you don't have a oundation built with something more basic like PS, it would be hard to figure out the basics.




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