Advice on raising score from low 160s to 170

steven21
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Advice on raising score from low 160s to 170

Postby steven21 » Wed Mar 06, 2013 5:37 pm

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jone7007
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Re: Advice on raising score from low 160s to 170

Postby jone7007 » Wed Mar 06, 2013 6:02 pm

Power Score bible for LR and Manhattan for RC.

steven21
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Re: Advice on raising score from low 160s to 170

Postby steven21 » Wed Mar 06, 2013 6:05 pm

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ManOfTheMinute
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Re: Advice on raising score from low 160s to 170

Postby ManOfTheMinute » Wed Mar 06, 2013 6:11 pm

Do you feel rushed during LR and RC? I say this b/c you're nailing the one that is all about thinking, and bombing the two that require you to read more than three sentences every six questions.

Maybe its a matter of not being able to read fast enough; practice reading shit like the economist so you can have more free time at the end/ability to think about the tougher ones more.

steven21
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Re: Advice on raising score from low 160s to 170

Postby steven21 » Wed Mar 06, 2013 6:24 pm

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jone7007
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Re: Advice on raising score from low 160s to 170

Postby jone7007 » Wed Mar 06, 2013 6:54 pm

The Power Score LR workbook really helped.

First I looked for patterns in the types of questions I was missing by making a list of questions I was missed on my practice tests.

Then I did the worked on the worst problem area sections of the LR workbook. I would do about 5 to 10 question to get in a rhythm. Then I would check my answers and figure out the few, if any in my answers. This let me assess where I was going wrong in my thinking. Then I would do another 5 to 10 question. I worked through each area I was having problem over the course of the work week. I think not doing them all at once help me to retain the information.

Then I sat down and took a new practice test on the weekend. This test let me assess if I had improved on the area I worked on. I would repeated the process the next week with the next most probably area, until I finished the workbook. This took about 6 weeks.

I went -3 on LR on my LSAT. It was the strongest area on my LSAT.

Edit: I did the Power Score bible for LR first. I also reviewed it for the problem area if I was still having trouble after I did that section of the Poswer Score workbook.

sighsigh
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Re: Advice on raising score from low 160s to 170

Postby sighsigh » Wed Mar 06, 2013 7:28 pm

In my experience, all wrong answers on the LSAT are due to one of two reasons:

1.) You didn't know exactly what to do in order to arrive at the correct answer choice. (Basically, you were at least somewhat lost while attacking the question, and had to at least partially guess).
2.) You knew exactly what to do in order to arrive at the correct answer choice, but you didn't do it. (In other words, you made a 'small mistake').

Each type of reason is really different from the other. You need to identify if your wrong questions are coming from small mistakes (e.g. you skipped over an essential word, you misread strengthen as weaken, you saw one of those entincing trick answer choices and picked it without hesitation, etc.) or lack of understanding of the fundamentals, where you don't properly know the laws that must be followed in order to answer the question correctly.

I think the first step is to figure out which reason your wrong answers are due to. Perhaps it is a split of both.

I find for LG, 1.) is almost never an issue because the laws you must follow in order to correctly answer the question are ever so clearly laid out for you by many sources, such as the LGB. But LR and RC are much much more cloudy. I found the LRB extremely lacking in this respect. It doesn't go into NEARLY enough detail on how to answer the harder LR questions. I found I had to do tons of theorycrafting myself for LR (and also RC).

steven21
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Re: Advice on raising score from low 160s to 170

Postby steven21 » Wed Mar 06, 2013 7:47 pm

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Jeffort
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Re: Advice on raising score from low 160s to 170

Postby Jeffort » Wed Mar 06, 2013 11:24 pm

steven21 wrote:thanks for all the feedback/advice. Given the information I provided is it possible to improve enough to reach 170-173 by May?


Yes, if you put in good quality study, prep and practice between now and then, focusing on identifying your weaknesses and fixing them, it is possible for you to reach or break the 170 mark. In order to significantly increase, you need to improve your argument analysis and evaluation skills (flawed vs. sound methods of reason for instance, identifying assumptions, etc.) to fix your LR issues. The number of LR questions you said you are missing indicates that you are applying some forms of flawed reasoning to a significant number of questions, so you must figure out and get rid of the flawed approaches/methods/reasoning you are currently applying to make answer choice decisions.

steven21
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Re: Advice on raising score from low 160s to 170

Postby steven21 » Tue Mar 12, 2013 7:05 pm

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steven21
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Re: Advice on raising score from low 160s to 170

Postby steven21 » Tue Mar 26, 2013 10:09 pm

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Dr. Dre
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Re: Advice on raising score from low 160s to 170

Postby Dr. Dre » Tue Mar 26, 2013 11:22 pm

What's better Manhattan LR or Powerscore LR?

steven21
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Re: Advice on raising score from low 160s to 170

Postby steven21 » Tue Mar 26, 2013 11:39 pm

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bizzybone1313
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Re: Advice on raising score from low 160s to 170

Postby bizzybone1313 » Tue Mar 26, 2013 11:42 pm

Dr. Dre wrote:What's better Manhattan LR or Powerscore LR?


I have read both. I say this: Manhattan LR + Powerscore LR = perfect LR strategy. They both lack in very key areas. I have a much more firm understanding of conditional reasoning as well as flaw, assumption and necessary questions after having read Manhattan. The light bulb clicked for a lot of type of questions after reading Manhattan's LR book. In some areas, PS is too mechanical in their approach. Manhattan helps develop a key understanding of how to break down any kind of argument, which I think is really valuable.

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Dr. Dre
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Re: Advice on raising score from low 160s to 170

Postby Dr. Dre » Tue Mar 26, 2013 11:59 pm

bizzybone1313 wrote:
Dr. Dre wrote:What's better Manhattan LR or Powerscore LR?


I have read both. I say this: Manhattan LR + Powerscore LR = perfect LR strategy. They both lack in very key areas. I have a much more firm understanding of conditional reasoning as well as flaw, assumption and necessary questions after having read Manhattan. The light bulb clicked for a lot of type of questions after reading Manhattan's LR book. In some areas, PS is too mechanical in their approach. Manhattan helps develop a key understanding of how to break down any kind of argument, which I think is really valuable.



would u recommend powerscore LR first, then Manhattan LR?

steven21
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Re: Advice on raising score from low 160s to 170

Postby steven21 » Wed Mar 27, 2013 12:12 am

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Redfactor
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Re: Advice on raising score from low 160s to 170

Postby Redfactor » Wed Mar 27, 2013 2:59 am

Jeffort wrote:
steven21 wrote:In order to significantly increase, you need to improve your argument analysis and evaluation skills (flawed vs. sound methods of reason for instance, identifying assumptions, etc.) to fix your LR issues. The number of LR questions you said you are missing indicates that you are applying some forms of flawed reasoning to a significant number of questions, so you must figure out and get rid of the flawed approaches/methods/reasoning you are currently applying to make answer choice decisions.


It sounds to me like you're not actually working through the questions you're getting wrong and understanding why they're wrong. LR is very learnable. If you can nail games the way that you do, you should be fully capable to get LR to <-5 assuming you're not running out of time.

I suggest when you do your next test, you find out which type of questions you're getting wrong. Find out both why the right answer is correct but also ensure that you understand why each other answer must be wrong. Do this to each question. Why it's right, why the others are wrong. Then take that type of question and do only those until you no longer miss them.

che3055
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Re: Advice on raising score from low 160s to 170

Postby che3055 » Wed Mar 27, 2013 7:59 pm

Redfactor wrote:It sounds to me like you're not actually working through the questions you're getting wrong and understanding why they're wrong. LR is very learnable. If you can nail games the way that you do, you should be fully capable to get LR to <-5 assuming you're not running out of time.


This.

I started about where you are with very similar results in each section. With two months of dedicated study, I went from low 160s to just at (or slightly below) 170. The trick is finding your problem areas. I kept a detailed spreadsheet with each question type and how many times I missed a certain type of question. Then, after taking a practice test, I would wait about a week, and revisit each question that I got wrong, and redo it without any significant time restraint (give yourself maybe 1:30-1:45 per).

I found that when I would miss a certain types of questions, it was truly an anomaly or stupid mistake that under less of a time constraint I would be fine getting. These I didn't worry as much about. I also found certain question types - matching and weaken questions for me - were consistently causing me problems. Then, after redoing each question that I got wrong on the first go around, I would look at the questions that I missed on the second time around. I would compare my answers from my first try on that question to my answers on the second attempt. If they matched up (I would say approx. 75% of the questions I got wrong twice, I answered the same way twice), it could reveal a strong insight in to where my problem was.

I recently took about 4 months off from the LSAT, and recently decided to start gearing up for a June retake. Interestingly, with just some time off, my LR scores went from about 8 to 10 off per test to about 5 or 6. I'm not sure what made things click for me in the past few months without touching an LSAT book, but the real key to LR is just being able to strip away all the fluff from a question and set of answers, and figure out what makes the most sense.

steven21
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Re: Advice on raising score from low 160s to 170

Postby steven21 » Fri Mar 29, 2013 2:23 am

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bizzybone1313
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Re: Advice on raising score from low 160s to 170

Postby bizzybone1313 » Fri Mar 29, 2013 2:47 am

Dr. Dre wrote:
bizzybone1313 wrote:
Dr. Dre wrote:What's better Manhattan LR or Powerscore LR?


I have read both. I say this: Manhattan LR + Powerscore LR = perfect LR strategy. They both lack in very key areas. I have a much more firm understanding of conditional reasoning as well as flaw, assumption and necessary questions after having read Manhattan. The light bulb clicked for a lot of type of questions after reading Manhattan's LR book. In some areas, PS is too mechanical in their approach. Manhattan helps develop a key understanding of how to break down any kind of argument, which I think is really valuable.


would u recommend powerscore LR first, then Manhattan LR?


I would read them concurrently and then drill that particular question type. That is real important.

steven21
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Re: Advice on raising score from low 160s to 170

Postby steven21 » Tue Apr 09, 2013 1:00 am

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