How long before LGs began to click for you?

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LegaleZy
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How long before LGs began to click for you?

Postby LegaleZy » Wed Feb 13, 2013 12:03 am

I've heard over and over again that LG is te easiest section to improve, but for me it's a slow going and painful process. I feel like once I understand LG I can really unlock my LSAT potential, but I can't even get every question right on a simple ordering game. I need some encouragement, so I'm asking how long did it take until you mastered LG? I have the MLSAT Guide, Powerscore bible, and Cambrdige LG by types, but I just want LG to improve so badly and it's not happening. I don't plan on taking the LSAT until October, but I'm becoming impatient with my slow results :(

cooldude87
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Re: How long before LGs began to click for you?

Postby cooldude87 » Wed Feb 13, 2013 12:12 am

I did powerscore three times and it worked. Practice

Daily_Double
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Re: How long before LGs began to click for you?

Postby Daily_Double » Wed Feb 13, 2013 12:16 am

LegaleZy wrote:I've heard over and over again that LG is te easiest section to improve, but for me it's a slow going and painful process. I feel like once I understand LG I can really unlock my LSAT potential, but I can't even get every question right on a simple ordering game. I need some encouragement, so I'm asking how long did it take until you mastered LG? I have the MLSAT Guide, Powerscore bible, and Cambrdige LG by types, but I just want LG to improve so badly and it's not happening. I don't plan on taking the LSAT until October, but I'm becoming impatient with my slow results :(


Took me three months. Most of which was spent reviewing Powerscore and Manhattan over and over again. Plus I took a class at my undergrad. But times differ person to person depending upon a number of things. You're ahead of the game, keep up the good work and just know that it will come with time.

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eliztudorr
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Re: How long before LGs began to click for you?

Postby eliztudorr » Wed Feb 13, 2013 12:37 am

think of the game as a real game. its really fun actually. <---- convince yourself its fun!

speed is my main problem for LG so im not sure when it "clicked." the "grouping" type prob took me about 1 month to really get a hang of it. but compare to other sections, LG is less energy consuming for me. LR always make my head hurt LOL

what im gonna say might be really simple, and intuitive but maybe you just need to think like this.

after reading the main paragraph, can you make a setup. the truth is, all LG are similar by its types. so there's really only a few kinda setups, just the variables changing, using different letters names...
so first, ask yourself, can you make the diagram into something that's according to the story and can YOU read it? (because if you cannot even understand what you map out, its all lost game)

then, understand what the question is asking. i find myself getting questions wrong because of stupid careless mistakes. because under time pressure, all words can suddenly trick your mind. so make sure you understand what the questions are asking for. most LG books will teach you the differences so make sure you read them.

then now its anticipating "who" might be the main player in the game. there's going to be a rule (or variable) the game will revolve around. if you see enough LGs it will come to you. also, its important to know what the rules really implies (or the inferences). again this is all practice.

don't worry. LG is trainable. def. just do them like a test-MAKER. there's always a reason why they designed the questions the way they did. they didn't just dream them up and throw it on. so take your time. :)

best of luck

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jselson
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Re: How long before LGs began to click for you?

Postby jselson » Wed Feb 13, 2013 3:07 am

For speed and organization, about 2 months. As the previous poster said, they actually are pretty fun once you've learned how to organize them. Once I learned how to keep my paper clean, in clear rows and columns, things clicked, and I just needed to fine-tune my speed and fix common errors (forgetting to apply a rule that wasn't often used was my biggest one).

Theopliske8711
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Re: How long before LGs began to click for you?

Postby Theopliske8711 » Wed Feb 13, 2013 11:28 am

LegaleZy wrote:I've heard over and over again that LG is te easiest section to improve, but for me it's a slow going and painful process. I feel like once I understand LG I can really unlock my LSAT potential, but I can't even get every question right on a simple ordering game. I need some encouragement, so I'm asking how long did it take until you mastered LG? I have the MLSAT Guide, Powerscore bible, and Cambrdige LG by types, but I just want LG to improve so badly and it's not happening. I don't plan on taking the LSAT until October, but I'm becoming impatient with my slow results :(


Stop....

faithfulcounsellor
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Re: How long before LGs began to click for you?

Postby faithfulcounsellor » Wed Feb 13, 2013 4:26 pm

Great question... it definitely took me a while. At first it would take me 1.5 hours to get through a LG section with -2. I would just "brute force" my way through, trying every possible combination. Eventually I got faster but then just kind of plateaued right before the Dec. LSAT (where I bombed the LG section). I did several things before the Feb. LSAT that really helped me:

1) I listened to the 7 Sage LG explanations (7sage.com/logic-game-explanations). This helped me tremendously. I only found this probably a week or so before my test and wish I had known about it longer. Hearing the matter-of-fact explanations helped me overcome my fear of LG, replacing it with a "this can't really be that hard, I just have to put it into simple terms" mentality.

2) I retook practice tests and just worked, and reworked, on speed. Some tests I retook probably 3-4 times. Sure, I know the game inside and out. But I kept trying to see if I could diagram it faster, if I could think of a better way to notate important things for myself (and I did came up with some cool things that really helped me). I just kept retaking games sections until I could get them down to 25ish minutes. If nothing else, I just gave me the confidence that I really COULD do it within the time limit.

Additionally, the Powerscore drills and practice sections are great and the Princeton Review approach of working through the game and completing all the specific questions and then coming back to answer the general questions really helped ("Which professor couldn't present 4th?" - if you have already worked out scenarios in other questions, you might be able to immediately eliminate several answers).

What impact did these things have? A lot! On the Dec. LSAT, I kind of bombed the LG section, having just gotten lost on one of the games and losing it on the time. Last Saturday, I easily was hitting my 4th game in the section with 12-15 minutes remaining and am fairly confident that I was close to 100%. :D

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star fox
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Re: How long before LGs began to click for you?

Postby star fox » Wed Feb 13, 2013 7:11 pm

LegaleZy wrote:I've heard over and over again that LG is te easiest section to improve, but for me it's a slow going and painful process. I feel like once I understand LG I can really unlock my LSAT potential, but I can't even get every question right on a simple ordering game. I need some encouragement, so I'm asking how long did it take until you mastered LG? I have the MLSAT Guide, Powerscore bible, and Cambrdige LG by types, but I just want LG to improve so badly and it's not happening. I don't plan on taking the LSAT until October, but I'm becoming impatient with my slow results :(


If you're not taking the test until October don't stress about it not clicking right away yet. You have so much time. For now, keep focusing on the setup. That's the most important thing. Once you have the setup you'll begin seeing deductions soon enough. Don't worry about speed yet. Just keep cranking away different games and reading the explanations. Stressing now is the worst thing to do. You should be focusing on learning the LSAT material at this point, worry about mastering it in a few months.

ws81086n
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Re: How long before LGs began to click for you?

Postby ws81086n » Wed Feb 13, 2013 7:17 pm

If you've got something upstairs, they will click for you, no doubt about it. Just takes time.

Aequitas_
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Re: How long before LGs began to click for you?

Postby Aequitas_ » Thu Feb 14, 2013 2:04 pm

Drill drill drill drill drill. So much of this will auto correct itself simply from drilling. The rest is case by case and analysis. For me that last bit had to do more with slowing down when I read the question because I'd go too fast.

totoro
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Re: How long before LGs began to click for you?

Postby totoro » Thu Feb 14, 2013 2:20 pm

How many LG sections have you done? It took me about 30 LG sections (so that's 120 logic games) before I felt very comfortable and could complete them in the time limit allowed.

Practice first getting -0 without the time restriction (just find the best way to diagram them; get familiar with the different kinds of games; different strategies to answer questions). Then start drilling to cut it down to 35 minutes.

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LegaleZy
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Re: How long before LGs began to click for you?

Postby LegaleZy » Thu Feb 14, 2013 6:29 pm

Thanks for all the suggestions and please keep them coming. I've decided to go back to the beginning and re-read the chapter on simple ordering then complete every single game until I'm able to get every answer correct. Once that has been accomplished I'll work on timing until I can complete the game in under 8 minutes. I realized progressing to harder game types is stupid when I haven't completely mastered the earlier types.

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elterrible78
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Re: How long before LGs began to click for you?

Postby elterrible78 » Thu Feb 14, 2013 6:36 pm

Wormfather wrote:Its not about doing different games, but doing the same games over and over. Even though you will remember the deduction that unlocks the game, the process of drawing out the game, etc will build a sort of muscle memory.


+1

It builds muscle memory, and it helps you "see" the game better. Every time you redo a game, you're likely to pick up something new that makes it easier/faster for you. A couple more tips:

Questions that take you a long time to figure out the answers to, especially ones you have to power through a bunch of hypotheticals on, are ripe for reviewing and figuring out "what was it that made this the right answer, and how could I have seen that sooner?"

The biggest "epiphany" moment for me on games was when I understood (and I mean really understood) that on each and every question, the rules and the question itself provide you with all you need to find the answer. It is *never* a matter of having to stumble blindly through hypotheticals.

magickware
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Re: How long before LGs began to click for you?

Postby magickware » Thu Feb 14, 2013 7:28 pm

It took me a month and a half to actually get LG. Another month to start getting them right in a consistent manner, and then another month to finally get them down good.

But that too me doing every game that you can get about twice.

And now I need to memorize them all so that a repeat of the Feb. LSAT never happens to me again. It really sucks when you mess up on easy games simply because you're flustered.

But, ya, just keep doing games and spend a lot of time trying to figure the rules out. The most important thing to realize about games is that the rules all work together in some fashion, and every question gives you details that are very useful at answering that specific question.

ek266
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Re: How long before LGs began to click for you?

Postby ek266 » Fri Feb 15, 2013 2:28 am

I went through an old exam (timed) when I first started studying for the LSAT. I had no idea what to do with the logic games section; I got two questions right (both were the first questions of each game). In panic mode, I went to the library and grabbed the first book I saw - the examkrackers book on logic games. Read through it over the next few days, did every single example, sample questions, and chapter quizzes. I'd say in the next week or two, they just made complete sense. I love them and would do multiple every day for the rest of my life, if there were that many. Taking your time to practice is key. If I didn't understand something, I searched online, watched youtube tutorials, and read other books. If I stumble across a particularly difficult one, I just keep going because by the third or fourth question, I realize what I interpreted incorrectly and how the game should have been set up.

I read through the examkrackers book and think it's great (it being the first book I read is influential though). It explains the questions and all possible scenarios in a manner I prefer. I've skimmed through powerscore, manhattan, kaplan, and princeotn. Powerscore is a great supplemental book; manhattan is skinny (read: very skimmable once you know the basics), but there are valuable tips scattered about. I've never been enthralled with the quality and structure of Kaplan and Princeton books, so can't say much there. Good luck!

gronk
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Re: How long before LGs began to click for you?

Postby gronk » Fri Feb 15, 2013 2:27 pm

Started at a consistent -10 to -13 (old exams) with definite time problems. After going through the Powerscore LG prep book (I can't tell you what in particular I thought helped the most from that book, but by the end I had already improved) and then doing about 15 PT's afterwards I was up to a consistent -5,-6. And that was still missing the last 2-3 questions.

Luckily on Feb test day it all came together for the first time, may have been my one and only -0/-1 LG section.

whereskyle
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Re: How long before LGs began to click for you?

Postby whereskyle » Fri Feb 15, 2013 2:39 pm

Once I had completed the advanced section of the LG Bible, I started drilling LG sections. After a couple of weeks, I was nearly perfect.

Theopliske8711
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Re: How long before LGs began to click for you?

Postby Theopliske8711 » Fri Feb 15, 2013 6:10 pm

The biggest epiphany moment came when I could just see the answer. It's weird, but it was as if it was the final scene in the Matrix, where all of the logic just "clicked" and I could see the answer, very often with minimal to no writing. On some it was just, "Oh yea, that's obvious!" where no obvious answer appeared in the past. Suddenly I could streamline through the first two logic games in 12 mins, and get to my fourth with as much as 12 to spare.

Theopliske8711
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Re: How long before LGs began to click for you?

Postby Theopliske8711 » Fri Feb 15, 2013 6:16 pm

Wormfather wrote:
Theopliske8711 wrote:The biggest epiphany moment came when I could just see the answer. It's weird, but it was as if it was the final scene in the Matrix, where all of the logic just "clicked" and I could see the answer, very often with minimal to no writing. On some it was just, "Oh yea, that's obvious!" where no obvious answer appeared in the past. Suddenly I could streamline through the first two logic games in 12 mins, and get to my fourth with as much as 12 to spare.


This doesnt happen for most people. Dont feel bad. I got to -0 to -2 plugging and chugging.


It's not perfect for me, for some of the more recent LSATs (in the late 50s and 60s) I had to plug and chuck since they have become a bit more complex, I think. There is also my tendency to get flustered if I don't quickly "see" the answer.

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tuffyjohnson
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Re: How long before LGs began to click for you?

Postby tuffyjohnson » Tue Feb 19, 2013 1:29 pm

Took me about 13 hours of solid study before I could understand an average linear game. Even then it took me over an hour to complete the first game I tried. I'm going to do all the linears 3 times in the powerscore and then progress to the next level of games.

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cricketlove00
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Re: How long before LGs began to click for you?

Postby cricketlove00 » Tue Feb 19, 2013 3:37 pm

eliztudorr wrote:think of the game as a real game. its really fun actually. <---- convince yourself its fun!



THIS.

Once I realized how fun the games were, the infamous click happened. Maybe you should give your LG study a little break. Go on to something else and then come back to it so it isn't so daunting.

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LSAT Hacks (Graeme)
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Re: How long before LGs began to click for you?

Postby LSAT Hacks (Graeme) » Tue Feb 19, 2013 8:38 pm

It really clicked for me when I started repeating games. The 2nd or 3rd time through, you'll find the path the LSAC intended you to take. And then you'll realize that similar paths exist on all games.

Learn the patterns behind a few games, and the rest become much simpler.

Games also got easier once I decided to NEVER forget rules. I teach the LSAT now, and I notice that students often have trouble retaining rules for even five minutes.

There are usually just 2-3 to remember. 1-2 rules can go directly on the diagram. List the rest, and review them briefly. If you can hold them in your head, things go much smoother.

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heythatslife
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Re: How long before LGs began to click for you?

Postby heythatslife » Thu Feb 21, 2013 9:19 am

I would say it clicked for me at around the 100th game section I did.

When I began prepping, I absolutely SUCKED at games. I would take a full hour to complete a section and still get 5 or 6 questions wrong. I knew the LG section would be my undoing unless I focused on improving my performance.

Every time I took finished a PT, I went over the answers and analyzed what I got wrong. Then, I made two copies of the LG section, redoing it once after a week (I waited for a few days, because if I didn't, I would just recall the ACs without solving the problems), and then a second time after a month or two.

As others have said, repetition is key, because you have to familiarize yourself with the pathways through which problems are designed to be cracked. Then, get it to a point where the whole process becomes automatic, almost to the point that your pencil can keep working without your thinking.




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