To the full-time workers..

Theopliske8711
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Re: To the full-time workers..

Postby Theopliske8711 » Fri Mar 08, 2013 6:42 pm

KFV wrote:I'm baffled by some of the responses here, especially people saying that you "can" write the LSAT while working and going to school and caring for infants and so on. Yeah, of course you "can"... you "can" write the LSAT without any prep after having spent the whole night drinking, but that certainly doesn't mean you should.

A lot of people do well on the LSAT after having studied only part-time, but that doesn't mean they wouldn't have done better if they'd studied more. If you can't treat studying like a full-time job, then you can't. If you can, and you don't, then you may regret it when you don't get into the school of your choice. Hey, maybe you still will! But why not do everything in your power to make it as likely as possible an outcome?

I studied full-time for the two weeks immediately before the LSAT and it was absolutely the right decision for me. Besides the fact that I had more time to devote to prepping, I was also just way more focused on the test itself. Going into the test, I mostly just thought about the LSAT. While I ate, while I bathed, even while I slept. Come test day, the only thing that mattered to me was going out and beating the LSAT. There's no way I could've had that intensity if I'd been concerning myself with work.


We are talking way longer than two weeks.

KFV
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Re: To the full-time workers..

Postby KFV » Fri Mar 08, 2013 7:10 pm

I would've done two years if I could afford it! Sorry, I never really ended up responding to the OP in my post I guess. He's wondering if he should work PT or FT, and I'd suggest he works as little as he's able to while he's preparing.

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alwayssunnyinfl
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Re: To the full-time workers..

Postby alwayssunnyinfl » Sat Mar 09, 2013 11:03 am

KFV wrote:I would've done two years if I could afford it! Sorry, I never really ended up responding to the OP in my post I guess. He's wondering if he should work PT or FT, and I'd suggest he works as little as he's able to while he's preparing.

He says he's studying for the June test, which is in 3 months. Even if he were working 60 hours per week, I'm sure he'd be able to cover more material than someone who studied "full time" for two weeks.

When you're studying over such a long period of time, you need to factor in things like sanity and balance. For me personally, I would have gone insane if I hadn't had work and classes to help distract me and feel like my life had meaning outside of the LSAT. Everyone's balance is different, so I don't think you can say with any certainty that a person working or going to school while studying is at a disadvantage.

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RhymesLikeDimes
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Re: To the full-time workers..

Postby RhymesLikeDimes » Sat Mar 09, 2013 11:13 am

I work ~30 hours a week, but that's as a fitness center supervisor. My duties include: sitting at a desk, occasionally using the bathroom, and eating lunch.

toothbrush
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Re: To the full-time workers..

Postby toothbrush » Sat Mar 09, 2013 11:15 am

alwayssunnyinfl wrote:
KFV wrote:I would've done two years if I could afford it! Sorry, I never really ended up responding to the OP in my post I guess. He's wondering if he should work PT or FT, and I'd suggest he works as little as he's able to while he's preparing.

He says he's studying for the June test, which is in 3 months. Even if he were working 60 hours per week, I'm sure he'd be able to cover more material than someone who studied "full time" for two weeks.

When you're studying over such a long period of time, you need to factor in things like sanity and balance. For me personally, I would have gone insane if I hadn't had work and classes to help distract me and feel like my life had meaning outside of the LSAT. Everyone's balance is different, so I don't think you can say with any certainty that a person working or going to school while studying is at a disadvantage.

it's also about being diligent. You can work 60 hours a week or go to class FT and work PT and study PLENTY for the lsat. On the other hand, you can take off to study for the lsat and not do enough.

I feel like you have to strike a perfect balance of studying a good amount and studying right.

It's doable in any of the aforementioned situations and more.

drive4showLSAT4dough
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Re: To the full-time workers..

Postby drive4showLSAT4dough » Sat Mar 09, 2013 11:45 am

RhymesLikeDimes wrote:I work ~30 hours a week, but that's as a fitness center supervisor. My duties include: sitting at a desk, occasionally using the bathroom, and eating lunch.


Shitting and eating lunch sounds mentally draining. You will absolutely need to quit so that you can study for the LSAT properly.

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Dr. Dre
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Re: To the full-time workers..

Postby Dr. Dre » Sat Mar 09, 2013 4:35 pm

drive4showLSAT4dough wrote:Shitting and eating lunch sounds mentally draining. You will absolutely need to quit so that you can study for the LSAT properly.

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echamberlin8
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Re: To the full-time workers..

Postby echamberlin8 » Tue Mar 12, 2013 1:25 pm

bizzybone1313 wrote:Don't get a job until your done with the LSAT. You won't ever make a bigger mistake than if you do that. You will never do anything more important for your career than study for the LSAT.


This is an attitude that bothers me sometimes on TLS. Not all of us have the luxury of being able to live without a job by living at our parents' house or whatever. Not everyone on TLS comes from money. I know that a lot of people on here are fresh out of college or (a lot of times) still in it, but there are older members that have been in the working world for some time now. It's not realistic for people like that, especially if they have families to support, but even if they don't, to "study all day every day" for a test. Sometimes there ARE bigger things than the LSAT.

I'm 26-years-old (well, almost) and work 60+ hour weeks, and I definitely can relate to the OP. It's tough studying for the LSAT while working, especially if you have a high-pressure, drop-things-at-a-moment's-notice type of job, but I agree with the others who say that it can be done. It's tough, and I won't lie, my annoyance with the type of people I mentioned above is probably because I envy them. I have lots of bills to pay, so giving up my job isn't an option. Plus, I work at a good law firm, and I think burning bridges here just to study for the LSAT wouldn't be a good idea. That being said, it is nice to work at a law firm, since obviously people here more than at most companies can understand the need to take time off to study for the LSAT. Still, it's so much easier said than done when you feel like you're letting your team down by taking off work early (6 or 7pm is "early"), while others have to stay later than you doing work you could've been doing.

Honestly, I find that working a very intense job and studying for the LSAT is very tough, and sometimes I wish there were more threads on TLS addressing this. It seems that 99% of TLS is people in college or just leaving college now, and I guess that indicates the overall percentages age-wise who go to law school anyways, but I'm sure there are people who have a family PLUS a full-time job who think that I'm bitching about nothing here.

Still, like I said, I wish there were more threads on the LSAT Prep section about working full-time and studying for the LSAT. Hope I didn't mean to offend anyone, as I wasn't trying to do that, but just I get annoyed (and perhaps this is a sign of my own insecurity or bitterness) with people with little real-world experience dominating TLS and acting like they are superior to everyone else. Especially the whole bro culture on here, which nearly turned me against law school altogether.

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echamberlin8
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Re: To the full-time workers..

Postby echamberlin8 » Tue Mar 12, 2013 1:32 pm

Dee32 wrote:I've been preparing for the June administration for about two weeks now. So far I enjoy preparing for the LSAT much more than I did when I was in college. Studying for the LSAT while working keeps me balanced and ensures that when I do study I give my prep 100% focus and effort, because I know that nights are the only times I am going to be able to hit the books during the weekdays. I work 60-70 hours/week (or more, but recently closer to 60) as a paralegal at a V5 in NYC. I generally try to make it home around 8 or 9 and devote a couple of hours to solid prep. Weekends when I am not working are also generally devoted to prep. I'm not foreseeing any problems come June due to lack of preparation. If you really want it, you can make it happen nearly regardless of your schedule. I think how you prepare is much more important than how often you prepare. As another poster mentioned, it is all about discipline.

Disclaimer: As mentioned above, I also studied for the test one other time (for June 2011), in college, so by the time I started studying for this June's administration I already had I pretty solid foundation with many concepts on the test as well as a deep familiarity with the content. I think this definitely helped me when I picked up the books again despite a pretty hectic work schedule.


I have a similar situation to you, Dee. I studied last year for the test. I was going to take it in October and then December, but both times I got so completely swamped with work at my law firm that I had to postpone the LSAT to this year. I'm sure you know that work as a paralegal at a BigLaw firm is a ton more work than people who don't have experience with it would suspect. I too generally leave at 8 or 9, but oftentimes work later than that (I'm sure you do too, especially as you are in a NYC office--I'm in DC). I feel like I work the same hours as the lawyers here a lot, but they make about 4-5 times what I do.

Still, I feel like this prepares us for BigLaw hours, and that they aren't generally as bad as people on here say. Yes, they are awful, but that is mostly coming from people who've never had real jobs before fresh out of college. I feel like at most the lawyers work maybe 10 or 15 more hours here per week than I do (at max), BUT they make a huge salary for that price. Seems like a nice gig to me (although I'm aware the work does suck, but hey, so does being a paralegal at a BigLaw firm).

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echamberlin8
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Re: To the full-time workers..

Postby echamberlin8 » Tue Mar 12, 2013 1:40 pm

Rory19 wrote:I cannot believe some of these responses...

If you have the financial means to not work full time do it. Some of us have had to work full time all throughout undergrad and continue to do so today because we do not have families and pocket books to support us; the supposition that law schools expect us to not make a wage to support ourselves while preparing is preposterous. Do the best you can with what you have. No one can tell you what you can afford to do today other than yourself.


Yep, I get the idea that large swathes of TLS have never had to really work much. It can be frustrating, to say the least. Hell, I can say that I've come from a pretty privileged family, but even then, I can't imagine ever not working after college. I mean...it just doesn't make sense to me. Oh well, I guess some people really don't have to work. Would you really go the full year or more waiting for law school without having a job at all? How would one have money?

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bizzybone1313
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Re: To the full-time workers..

Postby bizzybone1313 » Sat Apr 13, 2013 10:23 pm

echamberlin8 wrote:
bizzybone1313 wrote:Don't get a job until your done with the LSAT. You won't ever make a bigger mistake than if you do that. You will never do anything more important for your career than study for the LSAT.


This is an attitude that bothers me sometimes on TLS. Not all of us have the luxury of being able to live without a job by living at our parents' house or whatever. Not everyone on TLS comes from money. I know that a lot of people on here are fresh out of college or (a lot of times) still in it, but there are older members that have been in the working world for some time now. It's not realistic for people like that, especially if they have families to support, but even if they don't, to "study all day every day" for a test. Sometimes there ARE bigger things than the LSAT.

I'm 26-years-old (well, almost) and work 60+ hour weeks, and I definitely can relate to the OP. It's tough studying for the LSAT while working, especially if you have a high-pressure, drop-things-at-a-moment's-notice type of job, but I agree with the others who say that it can be done. It's tough, and I won't lie, my annoyance with the type of people I mentioned above is probably because I envy them. I have lots of bills to pay, so giving up my job isn't an option. Plus, I work at a good law firm, and I think burning bridges here just to study for the LSAT wouldn't be a good idea. That being said, it is nice to work at a law firm, since obviously people here more than at most companies can understand the need to take time off to study for the LSAT. Still, it's so much easier said than done when you feel like you're letting your team down by taking off work early (6 or 7pm is "early"), while others have to stay later than you doing work you could've been doing.

Honestly, I find that working a very intense job and studying for the LSAT is very tough, and sometimes I wish there were more threads on TLS addressing this. It seems that 99% of TLS is people in college or just leaving college now, and I guess that indicates the overall percentages age-wise who go to law school anyways, but I'm sure there are people who have a family PLUS a full-time job who think that I'm bitching about nothing here.

Still, like I said, I wish there were more threads on the LSAT Prep section about working full-time and studying for the LSAT. Hope I didn't mean to offend anyone, as I wasn't trying to do that, but just I get annoyed (and perhaps this is a sign of my own insecurity or bitterness) with people with little real-world experience dominating TLS and acting like they are superior to everyone else. Especially the whole bro culture on here, which nearly turned me against law school altogether.


Almost everything you wrote doesn't apply to me. It does apply to a lot of people on TLS and at the T-14, however.

#1: I grew up working class in a trailer in a small town in the middle of nowhere.

#2: I have had real, full time jobs after college. At both of these jobs, I was paid about $60K each. I saved diligently and was able to save about $60K during these 3-4 yrs.

#3: I quit my job to study for the LSAT, because I knew I was putting my future at risk. I was able to do this, because I only have about $350-$375 in monthly bills. In fact, I will list all 6 of my bills for the amusement of the entire TLS community. (1) Tempur-Pedic Bed (I spulrged on myself-- what can I say-- I earned it.) ($135), (2) Sallie Mae undergrad loans ($25), (3) Citi CC ($35), (4) Wells Fargo CC ($40), (5) T-Mobile ($95) and (6) Clear internet ($35). I would have an apartment to pay for, but why would I do that when I could just live with my parents? My parents were happy to have their lil birdy back at the nest. It is only temporary.

#4: You have probably most likely "created" a lot of unnecessary expenses over the past couple of years. During the time I was working, I drove a 10 yr old car, lived in a $550/month apt and generally lived a very cheap life. When you drove to the dealership and bought a new car, you created an unnecessary expense. When you decided to live in the trendy part of town and pay $1,200/mnth, you created another unnecessary expense. When you decided to buy a new smartphone every year, you created numerous unnecessary expenses. You don't "have" to work. You choose to live a luxurious lifestyle that costs you a lot of money.

#5: If I was directly out of undergrad and could do it all over again, I would have done one of two things. #1: Taken out $5,000-$7,500 in loans and studied for the LSAT full time or #2: Moved to a cheap small little town, rented a $350/mnth apt, substitute teached 2-3 times out of the week and studied for the LSAT the rest of the time (and met a girl to "spend some quality time with in the afternoons to relieve some stress". :)

Megstew
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Re: To the full-time workers..

Postby Megstew » Sun Apr 14, 2013 4:23 pm

^ Wow I don't even know how to react to this.

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Dr. Dre
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Re: To the full-time workers..

Postby Dr. Dre » Sun Apr 14, 2013 4:28 pm

Bizzybone is right; there are no excuses, just study for that fucking test as best as you can.

Humbert Humbert
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Re: To the full-time workers..

Postby Humbert Humbert » Mon Apr 15, 2013 9:33 am

Like some others in this thread, I too work at a biglaw firm in NY and have long hours. I am studying for the June test and I am wondering what others' study schedules look like. I take a PT every Saturday, and I try to drill as much as possible during the week when I have free time at work. I think I am going to try to take a PT after work every Wednesday from now until June, assuming I'm not tied up at work too late. My question is, for those of you in similar situations, do you take full PTs after work? Do you break it into sections? Do you do 4 section tests, instead of 5?

I'll have to try it for myself, but the thought of doing a full PT after a full day of work seems daunting.

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NoodleyOne
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Re: To the full-time workers..

Postby NoodleyOne » Mon Apr 15, 2013 9:40 am

I worked full time while I studied for the LSAT, and I turned out alright.

Damn, TLS overstates how much time is needed for prep sometimes. I hear about people studying 60 hours a week and not going out during the weekends and it just boggles my mind. Your brain needs a break. The best way to study for the LSAT is to give yourself a lot of time before the test, and then pace yourself so you can go through all of the material and have time to hone your weaknesses. At the same time, real life happens. People have SOs, jobs, kids and the like. These are facts of life, and just like anything else, you have to manage your time wisely. Study when you can, and make it a priority. The people closest to you have to understand that, and if they're in your corner they'll give you the space and time you need. But don't sacrifice your life and/or sanity.

Edit: For those working full-time and want some general advice... Find time where you can. Four section PTs are probably your best bet as long as you're honest with yourself and don't think fatigue will be an issue. Ten minutes drilling can be time well spent when you get the time, and don't skimp on review. It's hard... I had a full time job and a full time girlfriend, but it's certainly doable.

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echamberlin8
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Re: To the full-time workers..

Postby echamberlin8 » Wed Apr 24, 2013 5:37 pm

bizzybone1313 wrote:
echamberlin8 wrote:
bizzybone1313 wrote:Don't get a job until your done with the LSAT. You won't ever make a bigger mistake than if you do that. You will never do anything more important for your career than study for the LSAT.


This is an attitude that bothers me sometimes on TLS. Not all of us have the luxury of being able to live without a job by living at our parents' house or whatever. Not everyone on TLS comes from money. I know that a lot of people on here are fresh out of college or (a lot of times) still in it, but there are older members that have been in the working world for some time now. It's not realistic for people like that, especially if they have families to support, but even if they don't, to "study all day every day" for a test. Sometimes there ARE bigger things than the LSAT.

I'm 26-years-old (well, almost) and work 60+ hour weeks, and I definitely can relate to the OP. It's tough studying for the LSAT while working, especially if you have a high-pressure, drop-things-at-a-moment's-notice type of job, but I agree with the others who say that it can be done. It's tough, and I won't lie, my annoyance with the type of people I mentioned above is probably because I envy them. I have lots of bills to pay, so giving up my job isn't an option. Plus, I work at a good law firm, and I think burning bridges here just to study for the LSAT wouldn't be a good idea. That being said, it is nice to work at a law firm, since obviously people here more than at most companies can understand the need to take time off to study for the LSAT. Still, it's so much easier said than done when you feel like you're letting your team down by taking off work early (6 or 7pm is "early"), while others have to stay later than you doing work you could've been doing.

Honestly, I find that working a very intense job and studying for the LSAT is very tough, and sometimes I wish there were more threads on TLS addressing this. It seems that 99% of TLS is people in college or just leaving college now, and I guess that indicates the overall percentages age-wise who go to law school anyways, but I'm sure there are people who have a family PLUS a full-time job who think that I'm bitching about nothing here.

Still, like I said, I wish there were more threads on the LSAT Prep section about working full-time and studying for the LSAT. Hope I didn't mean to offend anyone, as I wasn't trying to do that, but just I get annoyed (and perhaps this is a sign of my own insecurity or bitterness) with people with little real-world experience dominating TLS and acting like they are superior to everyone else. Especially the whole bro culture on here, which nearly turned me against law school altogether.


Almost everything you wrote doesn't apply to me. It does apply to a lot of people on TLS and at the T-14, however.

#1: I grew up working class in a trailer in a small town in the middle of nowhere.

#2: I have had real, full time jobs after college. At both of these jobs, I was paid about $60K each. I saved diligently and was able to save about $60K during these 3-4 yrs.

#3: I quit my job to study for the LSAT, because I knew I was putting my future at risk. I was able to do this, because I only have about $350-$375 in monthly bills. In fact, I will list all 6 of my bills for the amusement of the entire TLS community. (1) Tempur-Pedic Bed (I spulrged on myself-- what can I say-- I earned it.) ($135), (2) Sallie Mae undergrad loans ($25), (3) Citi CC ($35), (4) Wells Fargo CC ($40), (5) T-Mobile ($95) and (6) Clear internet ($35). I would have an apartment to pay for, but why would I do that when I could just live with my parents? My parents were happy to have their lil birdy back at the nest. It is only temporary.

#4: You have probably most likely "created" a lot of unnecessary expenses over the past couple of years. During the time I was working, I drove a 10 yr old car, lived in a $550/month apt and generally lived a very cheap life. When you drove to the dealership and bought a new car, you created an unnecessary expense. When you decided to live in the trendy part of town and pay $1,200/mnth, you created another unnecessary expense. When you decided to buy a new smartphone every year, you created numerous unnecessary expenses. You don't "have" to work. You choose to live a luxurious lifestyle that costs you a lot of money.

#5: If I was directly out of undergrad and could do it all over again, I would have done one of two things. #1: Taken out $5,000-$7,500 in loans and studied for the LSAT full time or #2: Moved to a cheap small little town, rented a $350/mnth apt, substitute teached 2-3 times out of the week and studied for the LSAT the rest of the time (and met a girl to "spend some quality time with in the afternoons to relieve some stress". :)


There's a lot of truth to your response--thank you for it! You are right in that I do have lots of unnecessary expenses, but I guess it's fair to say I'm not willing to give them up. Yes, I could move back in with my parents and I could basically live for free. I need to really buckle down and study for the June and October exams, because it's been a rough past few months that have resulted in almost no studying. I was going to apply to law schools last year, but got too distracted by my job and the stress from that and other things (a relationship).

NoodleyOne, I hope you are right. I was able to score around the 165 range on PTs while still working quite a bit and not studying a huge amount, but I believe for others studying has to be FULL-TIME. For someone like me, though, that would burn me out and it's ultimately not worth it. Depends on the person I guess. I also agree with you that "real life happens." One has to learn to balance studying/work with the rest of life. Lessons learned now will carry over into law school and working at a law firm in the future. On the other hand, I really should be studying and busting my ass how.

So what is the opinion now on TLS about multiple LSAT scores? I'm worried I will get maybe a mid-160s score in June (I already signed up for the test and I've cancelled several over LSATs that I signed up for in the past due to not having enough time to study, so I was going to stick it out and take the test in June), and that that might affect my chances at getting into HCCN even with a 170+ score in October. Is it worth taking the LSAT for me in June to get experience? I've pushed back the LSAT so many times that I just want to take it once to get it over with, and then if the score isn't good enough, retake in October, but I know a lot of people act like Harvard won't accept you if you've gotten a 165 on the LSAT before, even if your final score is 176.




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