Struggling with ID'ing game types

Wohast
Posts: 8
Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2013 5:11 pm

Struggling with ID'ing game types

Postby Wohast » Wed Feb 06, 2013 3:07 am

I started off with reading chapters 1-3 of the PS LGB. These chapters covered linear and advanced linear games.

I decided I wanted to drill Basic Linear and Advanced Linear for a day or two before moving on to the next chapters.

I have the list that breaks the games down by type:
Basic Linear - Balanced (23)
Basic Linear - Overloaded (5)
Basic Linear - Underfunded (5)
Advanced Linear - Balanced (25)
etc etc etc

So I drilled about 8 games in the "BL - B" section today...nothing out of the ordinary. Finishing games very quick and missing usually 0 or 1.

I tried two games in the "BL - O" section, and immediately I was clueless on how to set these games up. My setup was bad, and i missed 1-2 questions and took way too much time. I watched the 7sage video's and immediately I notice he is referring to them as "grouping games"...yet everywhere I have seen online shows these 2 as "BL-O". Im referring to PT 10 #2 and PT 21 #2. How is this grouping if its labeled as "BL - O"?

I decide to try a "BL - U" game, and go with PT2 G4. Struggled with this game, and upon watching 7sage, I notice he refers to this game as "In/Out". Is "In/Out" a type of "BL - U"?


Theres so many damn names for each type of game...Manhattan calls it one thing, PS calls it another...Basic Linear section has games not shown in the Linear section of PS LGB...im getting frustrated because I cant sort the games properly besides the Basic Lin - Balanced section.

Do I need to just do the entire PS LGB and then try and drill games?
Is there any list online that groups games correctly and not in such broad categories?
Is there a site that shows what each and every game type means?

Thanks

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dirtrida2
Posts: 474
Joined: Sat Oct 09, 2010 3:54 pm

Re: Struggling with ID'ing game types

Postby dirtrida2 » Wed Feb 06, 2013 3:59 am

Wohast wrote:I started off with reading chapters 1-3 of the PS LGB. These chapters covered linear and advanced linear games.

I decided I wanted to drill Basic Linear and Advanced Linear for a day or two before moving on to the next chapters.

I have the list that breaks the games down by type:
Basic Linear - Balanced (23)
Basic Linear - Overloaded (5)
Basic Linear - Underfunded (5)
Advanced Linear - Balanced (25)
etc etc etc

So I drilled about 8 games in the "BL - B" section today...nothing out of the ordinary. Finishing games very quick and missing usually 0 or 1.

I tried two games in the "BL - O" section, and immediately I was clueless on how to set these games up. My setup was bad, and i missed 1-2 questions and took way too much time. I watched the 7sage video's and immediately I notice he is referring to them as "grouping games"...yet everywhere I have seen online shows these 2 as "BL-O". Im referring to PT 10 #2 and PT 21 #2. How is this grouping if its labeled as "BL - O"?

I decide to try a "BL - U" game, and go with PT2 G4. Struggled with this game, and upon watching 7sage, I notice he refers to this game as "In/Out". Is "In/Out" a type of "BL - U"?


Theres so many damn names for each type of game...Manhattan calls it one thing, PS calls it another...Basic Linear section has games not shown in the Linear section of PS LGB...im getting frustrated because I cant sort the games properly besides the Basic Lin - Balanced section.

Do I need to just do the entire PS LGB and then try and drill games?
Is there any list online that groups games correctly and not in such broad categories?
Is there a site that shows what each and every game type means?

Thanks


TBH I didn't read much of your post, just the title...

Forget about memorizing the game types, that's a crock of shit. Just keep practicing and you will get good at LG all together. You are sitting there confusing yourself with all this excess memorization. Once you get good at recognizing the way the pieces work together and get used to making the inferences, it will all come together and you will be able to master any game they throw at you.

This is just my opinion and how my mind works; though, I do feel like these prep books try too hard to categorize and force you too sweat over the game "type" too much!

--

Additionally, I spent countless hours just watching solution videos on youtube. I borrowed game setup styles from a multitude of resources. 7SAGE has a pretty comprehensive list of videos, covering most - if not all - logic games.

http://7sage.com/logic-game-explanations/

CR2012
Posts: 238
Joined: Mon Jul 09, 2012 3:27 am

Re: Struggling with ID'ing game types

Postby CR2012 » Wed Feb 06, 2013 4:21 am

dirtrida2 wrote:
Wohast wrote:I started off with reading chapters 1-3 of the PS LGB. These chapters covered linear and advanced linear games.

I decided I wanted to drill Basic Linear and Advanced Linear for a day or two before moving on to the next chapters.

I have the list that breaks the games down by type:
Basic Linear - Balanced (23)
Basic Linear - Overloaded (5)
Basic Linear - Underfunded (5)
Advanced Linear - Balanced (25)
etc etc etc

So I drilled about 8 games in the "BL - B" section today...nothing out of the ordinary. Finishing games very quick and missing usually 0 or 1.

I tried two games in the "BL - O" section, and immediately I was clueless on how to set these games up. My setup was bad, and i missed 1-2 questions and took way too much time. I watched the 7sage video's and immediately I notice he is referring to them as "grouping games"...yet everywhere I have seen online shows these 2 as "BL-O". Im referring to PT 10 #2 and PT 21 #2. How is this grouping if its labeled as "BL - O"?

I decide to try a "BL - U" game, and go with PT2 G4. Struggled with this game, and upon watching 7sage, I notice he refers to this game as "In/Out". Is "In/Out" a type of "BL - U"?


Theres so many damn names for each type of game...Manhattan calls it one thing, PS calls it another...Basic Linear section has games not shown in the Linear section of PS LGB...im getting frustrated because I cant sort the games properly besides the Basic Lin - Balanced section.

Do I need to just do the entire PS LGB and then try and drill games?
Is there any list online that groups games correctly and not in such broad categories?
Is there a site that shows what each and every game type means?

Thanks


TBH I didn't read much of your post, just the title...

Forget about memorizing the game types, that's a crock of shit. Just keep practicing and you will get good at LG all together. You are sitting there confusing yourself with all this excess memorization. Once you get good at recognizing the way the pieces work together and get used to making the inferences, it will all come together and you will be able to master any game they throw at you.

This is just my opinion and how my mind works; though, I do feel like these prep books try too hard to categorize and force you too sweat over the game "type" too much!

--


+1

When I first started LSAT Prep, I was so confused about game types and would sometimes lose valuable time during PTs. The problem with the classifications is that, while sometimes helpful, they can really make you rigid. Sometimes the LSAT throws a curveball your way, such as Zones from Oct 12 and many others in the past. If you are trying to classify every game you see and force it too fall into some quasi-arbitrary classification, you could have a bad time.

User avatar
dirtrida2
Posts: 474
Joined: Sat Oct 09, 2010 3:54 pm

Re: Struggling with ID'ing game types

Postby dirtrida2 » Wed Feb 06, 2013 4:34 am

FWIW I was terrible at LG's and I was making the same mistakes as you, following these prep books to a "T" - trying to squeeze the games into their molds.

I just started drilling the games and watching solutions videos and now my average is -1 or -0.

I even took the Oct Zones... didn't waste time trying to fit it into a category and just started making a "common-sense" diagram and began my inferences.

Whatever works for you... circles, squares, grids, horizontal sequencing, vertical sequencing, etc...

You will figure it out over time, don't stress - especially if this is your first time attacking LG's.

Mik Ekim
Posts: 102
Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2012 12:06 pm

Re: Struggling with ID'ing game types

Postby Mik Ekim » Wed Feb 06, 2013 1:39 pm

In cooking, you can take just a few different ingredients - say, for example, soy sauce, sugar, garlic, vinegar, and honey - and come up with hundreds of different taste combinations --

The same thing happens with games -- there are actually just a few things that can happen in a game, but, when we think about all of the various combinations of factors, and we think of each combination as a "game type" it can get overwhelming --

Your issue is that you are having trouble "telling the dishes apart from one another," and you also don't like that the different companies do not all name these dishes in the same way.

One suggestion I have is to think about games in terms of their basic ingredients/characteristics:

1) All games in the modern era involve assigning elements to positions
2) Two or three of the four games you see on your exam will also involve ordering
3) One to three of your four games will involve grouping (some games have both ordering and grouping)

Furthermore, game scenarios can be complicated in one of two ways:
1) There could be subsets, either in the elements, or in the positions
2) There could be a numbers mismatch (number of elements don't = number of positions) and you'll have to think about which elements might get left out, or repeat, etc.

Finally, rules can be made more complicated in one of two ways:
1) By being made conditional (and there will be some games for which most or all of the rules are in fact conditional)
2) They can involve complex either/or scenarios (John either goes after Bill or before Ted, but not both)

That's it -- all major complications for all games can be thought of in terms of the above-issues.

So, see if thinking about games in terms of "ingredients" makes things easier, and, when you learn about or read about different types of games, just realize that they represent different combinations of these basic ingredients --

I know that's a bit theoretical and not helpful for everyone, but I hope that's helpful for some of you -- good luck --

Mike Kim
Co-creator Manhattan LSAT

magickware
Posts: 359
Joined: Sun Nov 04, 2012 1:27 pm

Re: Struggling with ID'ing game types

Postby magickware » Wed Feb 06, 2013 1:45 pm

Don't bother with the question types themselves.

Just completely master the concepts as they come in the line in the Powerscore LG bible by drilling them to death with the problem sets from http://www.cambridgelsat.com/problem-sets/logic-games/

Only absolute requirement is that you absolutely understand each chapter before you move onto the next. Imo, LG is a progression and you should approach it as such. There's no way in hell you'll be able to do unbalanced grouping games if you struggle with linear games, etc. They're effectively the same thing, except grouping games require and build up from concepts that you learned in linear games.

The Powerscore LG bible and the cambridgeLSAT use different terminology for the games. Don't worry about that. Just look at what the games ask you to do and you'll more or less know how they fit into the Powerscore LG terminology.

Wohast
Posts: 8
Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2013 5:11 pm

Re: Struggling with ID'ing game types

Postby Wohast » Wed Feb 06, 2013 7:52 pm

Thanks for the replies.
I guess I was getting too caught up in separating every single game into types. I'm the type of person that likes to read/do a chapter in LGB, and then drill 15-20 games of that type...that way I know I got it down...before progressing to the next chapter. I have a binder with 3 copies of every single game 1-48, sorted in tabs by game type. I guess that's why I was surprised/frustrated to find that Advanced Linear chapter in LGB didn't prepare me that well for the games that I have in my Advanced Linear section...

Just gonna focus on getting through the entire LGB now before I even touch the binder full of games. Bought the Manhattan 3 pack too, since I've seen a lot of high scorers recommend browsing through MLG after completing the LGB.

magickware
Posts: 359
Joined: Sun Nov 04, 2012 1:27 pm

Re: Struggling with ID'ing game types

Postby magickware » Wed Feb 06, 2013 9:28 pm

Probably just lack of practice. Can you show us how you diagrammed the game that you did poorly on?

Diagramming is exactly the same for every game (save for those random rare ones).

You write down the variables that you have to deal with.
You write down the rules in a manner that you can read easily.
You create a diagram based upon the variables and the rules.
You look for inferences and write them down onto the diagram/spare space you got.

This is how it goes for every single game. It doesn't matter if it's a linear, advanced linear, grouping, whatever. Every game type beyond linear just happens to have more things you need to keep in check.

Wohast
Posts: 8
Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2013 5:11 pm

Re: Struggling with ID'ing game types

Postby Wohast » Wed Feb 06, 2013 10:21 pm

I started with reading/doing Ch2 (Linear) and then drilling a bunch of "Basic Linear - Balanced" games. After -0'ing the last few in a row, I decided to try a "Basic Linear - Overloaded" game.

First on the list:
February 1994 LSAT (PrepTest 10) - Section 2 (Logic Games) - Game 2

When I tried it I used the linear approach with 6 reviewers as base, that is what killed me. This game is 10x harder than it should be using them as the base.

Anyways, after bombing it I watched the 7sage video:
http://7sage.com/lsat_explanations/lsat ... -2-game-2/
and immediately notice him referring to it as grouping...having been frustrated at failing the game and having it happen again on a different game, I think this is why I overreacted and thought "if this is grouping why the hell is it in "BL-O" and posted.

Today with a clear head, I see now that while doing it with the 7sage grouping setup is very simple, IT CAN just as easily be diag'd using linear with the 4 movies as base instead...hence why its in the "Basic Linear - Overloaded" (8 cramming into 4 base) haha.

Anyways, glad I posted tho. Some replies def helped me see stuff differently.




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