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Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2013 2:56 pm
by Sourrudedude
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Re: LG Speed

Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2013 2:57 pm
by gaud
Redo every game multiple times and use different strategies/change your approach. See what works the best and keep track of it.

Re: LG Speed

Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2013 3:02 pm
by mindarmed
If you're in UG still, consider registering for a calculus class. The critical thinking skills you learn will help on the LSAT. Law schools will also consider this as a plus when you apply because you took a rigorous class when it was not required of you.

Re: LG Speed

Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2013 3:10 pm
by ManOfTheMinute
armedwithamind wrote:If you're in UG still, consider registering for a calculus class. The critical thinking skills you learn will help on the LSAT. Law schools will also consider this as a plus when you apply because you took a rigorous class when it was not required of you.


Haha thats cute... thinking law schools actually look at the classes you take

Re: LG Speed

Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2013 3:44 pm
by dusters
armedwithamind wrote:If you're in UG still, consider registering for a calculus class. The critical thinking skills you learn will help on the LSAT. Law schools will also consider this as a plus when you apply because you took a rigorous class when it was not required of you.

They don't really care what classes you take other than not particularly liking a pre-law major, and they certainly won't care if you do/do not take a 100/200 level calculus course.

Re: LG Speed

Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2013 3:48 pm
by mindarmed
Are you guys sure about that? A law school admissions dean told me that schools will look for students to challenge themselves in their curriculum. I think they know better than some random 0Ls.

Re: LG Speed

Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2013 3:54 pm
by totoro
You should challenge yourself and they will look for that, but only if it doesn't hurt your GPA too much. Just do what you're good at.

But to answer OP's original question - don't worry. I took 10-15 extra minutes per LG section when I first started out, literally. You get naturally faster as you do more games. I think just seeing all the different types of games is the best way to get faster. I did about 200 LG's before I got down to -0-3 consistently within the time limits. Be patient and it will come!

Also: Are you using the answers from previous questions to help you answer later questions? Do you know when to skip a question when it's going to take too much time? Do you know when to use POE or when to just try out every hypothetical? These types of strategies come with doing more games too.

Also: Do not waste any time checking over answers. Once you find the right one, move on. Check over if you have time at the end only.

Re: LG Speed

Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2013 4:01 pm
by stacy
The tick for me was to become proficient in the easy games so you have more time for the harder ones. i.e. the first 2 games you should be able to finish in 5min. each giving you much more time for the later games.

Re: LG Speed

Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2013 4:08 pm
by suralin
armedwithamind wrote:If you're in UG still, consider registering for a calculus class. The critical thinking skills you learn will help on the LSAT. Law schools will also consider this as a plus when you apply because you took a rigorous class when it was not required of you.


LOL just lol. Also, calculus = rigorous? Okay.

Re: LG Speed

Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2013 4:12 pm
by mindarmed
Suralin wrote:
armedwithamind wrote:If you're in UG still, consider registering for a calculus class. The critical thinking skills you learn will help on the LSAT. Law schools will also consider this as a plus when you apply because you took a rigorous class when it was not required of you.


LOL just lol. Also, calculus = rigorous? Okay.


Math is hard for most people, law schools like when students are well rounded in their education.

Re: LG Speed

Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2013 4:33 pm
by dusters
armedwithamind wrote:
Suralin wrote:
armedwithamind wrote:If you're in UG still, consider registering for a calculus class. The critical thinking skills you learn will help on the LSAT. Law schools will also consider this as a plus when you apply because you took a rigorous class when it was not required of you.


LOL just lol. Also, calculus = rigorous? Okay.


Math is hard for most people, law schools like when students are well rounded in their education.

One calculus course isn't going to make something think you had more or less or a rigorous course schedule over your 4ish years of undergrad. Sure, they might give a slight advantage to people who take difficult majors like physics but in the end taking easier classes and getting a better GPA probably helps you more anyways.

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Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2013 7:03 pm
by Sourrudedude
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Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2013 7:04 pm
by Sourrudedude
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Re: LG Speed

Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2013 8:16 pm
by totoro
I know it's tempting because you want to get every single question, I was like that too, but really if you are not finishing in time, you should be skipping at least 1-2 time consuming ones. Typical time consuming ones: modification of the rules, ones where you have to try out every answer. You can circle them and come back to them at the end if you find you still have time. You should stop working on a question as soon as you know you have the right answer. If you know D works, don't try E.

For answers, I usually bubbled them in groups - for lg, this was after each game. This saves time and gives you a quick breather between games.

Re: LG Speed

Posted: Mon Feb 04, 2013 12:12 pm
by bp shinners
Sourrudedude wrote:I went through the LGB and I get the general strategies. If I take my time I get get every question right fairly consistently but I have a lot of trouble finishing most games in 8 min 45 seconds. Obviously I'm going to keep practicing and that should naturally increase my speed but does anyone have any tips on how to work through LG more quickly?


1***) Stars mean this one is important. Have a method for how to attack every single portion of the logic game. Have a method for how to attack each question type. Stick to it like your life depends on it. Most time wasted on the LG section comes from you doing work that isn't getting you close to a correct answer. You feel like you're doing something, but you're not. If you have a set process and move on from each step when you complete it, it'll keep you on track and get you through it a lot faster. See the bottom of this post for my method.

2) Don't try to finish every game in 8:45. Some games are 10 minute games. Some are 5 minute games. It's a good goal to get through every game in the 8:45 when you're practicing, but it's not a reality most of the time. When doing sections, you're going to have some games that fly by and others that take more time. That's fine, and you should factor that in when you're doing hard games.

1: Read the introduction and make your setup

2: Read the rules and symbolize them using your preferred method

3: Recheck your symbolization of the rules (seriously, do it)

4: Identify any player that doesn't show up in the rules - this person can go anywhere, and is thus important to keep in your back pocket as a random

5: Make deductions - 'deduction' is a fancy word for 'combination of 2 or more rules'. There's nothing special about it - you're literally looking for the same letter/player/group/slot to show up twice, and that's about it.
a) Check your first rule. See if it interacts with any other rule (either because they share a player, both talk about the same slot/group, both limit distributions)
b) Repeat step 5a for each other rule

6: Make scenarios
a) Check to see if any single player (or group of players) is so constrained that they're only able to fit in 2-3 different places. Make scenarios based on these placements, especially if they interact with any other rules. Bam, you now have 2-3 skeletons that define all the possibilities. This usually comes in the form of blocks for ordering games, an ordering chain with a 'focal point' of one player in ordering games, a Must Be Together rule in grouping games, or a player that shows up in 3 or more rules in any game (count each part of a multi-part rule for this purpose).
b) Check to see if any single slot is so constrained that there are only 1-2 different players that will go there. Make scenarios based on those players in that slot. Bam, you now have 1-2 skeletons that define all the possibilities. This usually comes from an option in an ordering game (if at least one of the option players shows up in other rules), or a group that is almost-but-not-completely filled out in a grouping game.
c) Check if there's anything else that limits the possibilities to 2-3. Make scenarios based on this. This is a catch-all based on those weird rules that sometimes show up (like mauve dinos). It also shows up in grouping games where you’re selecting members from subgroups (3 types of scientists on a panel of 5)/ If you have a rule that you know is weird (because it's not one of the normal rules for that type of game), think about scenarios based around it.

7: Go to the questions
a) Elimination (which of the following could be a complete and accurate) - Don't look at your work. Read a rule, eliminate an answer or two. This is the fastest way, by far, to approach these problems.
b) Conditional ("If _______", or anything that gives you a new piece of information) - Draw a NEW diagram with the piece of information and any deductions you made in your setup. See if the new piece of info interacts with your first rule. Then, your second, and so on until you've gotten through all of the rules. If one of the rules lets you make a deduction, start over again with the first rule (but this time you can skip the rule you already used to make a deduction). If you have scenarios, see if the new piece of info limits you to 1-2 of them, and use them.
c) Absolute ("Which of the following must/could be true/false?") - If you made the deductions, you should be able to answer these without doing any work. Use your setups/scenarios to answer them. If you don't have the answer in your setup, you missed a deduction. If this is a "Which of the following Must Be True?" question, the answer will be the deduction, and you can add it to your setup. THIS IS THE ONLY TIME YOU SHOULD EVER ADD ANYTHING TO YOUR SETUP AFTER YOU FINISH IT AT THE BEGINNING OF THE GAME!

8: Do the Happy Dance.

Re: LG Speed

Posted: Mon Feb 04, 2013 1:35 pm
by Sourrudedude
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Re: LG Speed

Posted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 12:06 pm
by bp shinners
Sourrudedude wrote:^ Thanks a lot. Do you have any specific instructions on number 8?


It's just a jump to the left. And then a step to the right. Put your hands on your hips. You bring your knees in tight.