154, 154, 157, 171, 166.... what's going on??

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francesfarmer
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Re: 154, 154, 157, 171, 166.... what's going on??

Postby francesfarmer » Thu Jan 31, 2013 4:45 pm

Theopliske8711 wrote:
TripTrip wrote:Oh god OP. Take June. Spend the meantime on this site until you understand why we're telling you to wait until June.

Then enjoy T6.

Here's the schools you can go to if you break into the 99th percentile: http://myLSN.info/w3r5ha

Many you'll get for free.


So even if you have a 4.0 and 180, you only have a 30% shot at Yale and 50% shot at Stanford? :shock:

This is why you never see anyone saying "you're a lock for YS."

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DoveBodyWash
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Re: 154, 154, 157, 171, 166.... what's going on??

Postby DoveBodyWash » Thu Jan 31, 2013 4:49 pm

bogydog wrote:Yikes okay well yes I timed myself, no I'm not a URM, GPA 4.0, and before you ask, I majored in Spanish at a small liberal arts school in WI.

Yes I'm taking it in February, and I haven't studied other than what I posted. Honestly I'm not sure how much good studying would even do because looking back on all the questions I missed, other than maybe 2 questions it was mostly just stupid mistakes like skipping over the word "not" in questions and stuff like that...

I never really looked into schools besides Madison, it just seems like a good school which I assumed would also be the best financial option for me as a WI resident. I thought that public schools don't give out very much merit-based financial aid, but maybe that's mainly for undergrad? Anyway while yeah there's a slight chance I could go to Harvard or something, it just seems a little too pretentious for me. Yeah getting a 160k/year job at a big firm sounds a little exciting, but don't think I want my life to revolve around my job.

Anyway let's say I wait until June to test. What do I do all year in the meantime? Actually I would LOVE to do some kind of volunteering/teaching ESL or something like that, but I would have to start looking into it right away. It would also be nice to be 21 when I start law school...

But from a purely financial perspective, I'm not too sure it makes sense. I'll round tuition to 15k/year. Let's say I wait until June to take the test and get an extra 5k/year from a higher score. So for 3 years of law school, I pay 30k total. Let's say I can also earn 15k working from August-May since I would't be in school this coming school year. So in the 4 year span, I'm -15k.
Now let's say I take the test in February and forfeit that extra 5k/year I could *possibly* have gotten taking it later. So I'm down 45k for tuition. Let's say I get a 50k/year paying job right away, so for the 4 year span, I'm +5k. Does that make sense?

Keep throwing advice and opinions at me if you have any!! I don't really have anyone to go to so I'm glad I stumbled onto this forum.



If you're a Wisconsin native, it will be possible for you to get back to the WI market even if you go to a different (theoretically better) school. Also taking a year off isn't so bad, i'm doing it myself. With your GPA, opportunities are yours to lose. There are so many different teaching fellowships out there that would probably reinforce the soft factor of your application next year.

Your math could make sense if everything goes according to plan. It likely won't. The market's terrible, your interests might change, your career goals might change, and after three years of law school you might want to settle down somewhere other than WI. Re-taking the LSAT, going to a better school (with potentially more money) will maximize your options even if things change or if things stay the same.

Trust me, taking a year off was probably the best decision I ever made. I got an interesting/engaging job that pays around 45k, re-took LSAT and improved by 6 points, GPA is higher because the last semester of Senior grades were factored in, and it's giving me the chance to explore other career paths. I'm currently in the final stages of TFA (Teach for America) admissions.....debating whether to stay at my current company and move up, or go to law school.

Trying to decide whether or not you wanna go to law school as a college senior is difficult to do objectively. Because you're just terrified of "what the heck am i gonna do?" Trust me. There are things to do out there, and it'll be a good learning experience. This is all in addition to the strategic benefit of improving your LSAT and soft factors (work experience etc..). If you have a 4.0 it's probably because you smart/work hard. I'm really skeptical that you're gonna end up just bumming around in your parent's house for a full year. Strategically (as far as admission chances), and just for your own professional/personal development, taking a year off is the best choice here.

That said, there's nothing wrong with taking the LSAT multiple times, so try taking it in February and see how you do. If you do well enough, then consider just going to Madison. If not, then you'll know that taking a year off is the better choice.


EDIT:: Also, taking a year off to work will give you time to make valuable professional connections. Connections that you wouldn't have as a K-JD, and that you're gonna need if you go to a school like Madison

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feralinfant
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Re: 154, 154, 157, 171, 166.... what's going on??

Postby feralinfant » Thu Jan 31, 2013 4:56 pm

I want to comment on your skepticism that you can improve your score since you made "stupid" mistakes. This is why, especially for someone like you who's got a knack for standardized testing, you just take lots of practice tests so you don't make these and the questions are just rote. It's like practicing free throws in basketball. Eventually you'll be so used to the questions you won't make as many minor mistakes and your score will improve.

And don't fret about taking a year off. If you have a 4.0 and nail the lsat and still want to go to law school, no school is going to reaally care what you did for that year. It's a straight numbers game. Make a little money, volunteer do whatever but you can seriously set yourself up to go to a great school (or a good regional) for pretty much free. Hell if you work for a bit and ED Northwestern you'd be a lock, you'll still be close to WI and getting in comes with a 150k scholarship and will open way more doors for you than going to school in WI would.

bogydog
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Re: 154, 154, 157, 171, 166.... what's going on??

Postby bogydog » Fri Feb 01, 2013 12:01 am

Thanks so much everyone, I really really appreciate your comments (even the snarky ones).

The more I think about it, the more appealing it sounds to take a year off in between, no matter where I end up going, although I definitely identify with the "what the heck am I gonna do?!" fear, especially since my only major is Spanish. I think you guys are probably right about being able to improve my score to 170+ with some studying. The question then would be where to go, or if there is a school I'd rather attend than Madison. I love WI, and I really can't imagine it being *that* hard to find a job. I'm assuming I could graduate in the top half or fourth of the class, which would probably make it more than 44% likely that I'd find a job.

It would be super cool to go to Stanford, but realistically my "soft" factors aren't Stanford-worthy, and I'm a decent writer but not exceptional. HY don't appeal to me, and I haven't really looked into other non-WI schools. Is there a site that offers campus environment descriptions of the for some of the mid-top schools?

Northwestern is an idea worth considering. I like Chicago, and a 150k scholarship would be fantastic, but I'm not sure about the whole work experience thing. Not only am I not sure what I would want to do, I'm not even sure what impressive looking job I could do with my Spanish major.

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feralinfant
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Re: 154, 154, 157, 171, 166.... what's going on??

Postby feralinfant » Fri Feb 01, 2013 12:13 am

bogydog wrote:Thanks so much everyone, I really really appreciate your comments (even the snarky ones).

The more I think about it, the more appealing it sounds to take a year off in between, no matter where I end up going, although I definitely identify with the "what the heck am I gonna do?!" fear, especially since my only major is Spanish. I think you guys are probably right about being able to improve my score to 170+ with some studying. The question then would be where to go, or if there is a school I'd rather attend than Madison. I love WI, and I really can't imagine it being *that* hard to find a job. I'm assuming I could graduate in the top half or fourth of the class, which would probably make it more than 44% likely that I'd find a job.

It would be super cool to go to Stanford, but realistically my "soft" factors aren't Stanford-worthy, and I'm a decent writer but not exceptional. HY don't appeal to me, and I haven't really looked into other non-WI schools. Is there a site that offers campus environment descriptions of the for some of the mid-top schools?

Northwestern is an idea worth considering. I like Chicago, and a 150k scholarship would be fantastic, but I'm not sure about the whole work experience thing. Not only am I not sure what I would want to do, I'm not even sure what impressive looking job I could do with my Spanish major.


If you have a 4.0 and get a 170 and ED Northwestern they wouldn't care if you'd worked at mcdonalds. Not saying you should go flip burgers, just don't sweat it being prestigious. And no other school really cares about softs outside of maybe HYS.

as far as descriptions just spend some time perusing this site.

ETA:http://www.top-law-schools.com/rankings.html -this will give you some descriptions.

But seriously it's more important to go to http://www.lawschooltransparency.com/ and look at employment numbers.

Because besides fit with the school you should really focus on what it is you want to do after law school and then figure out which school will get you there. If you're not sure you want to go/what you want to do you want to go where you'll maximize your options while minimizing debt. After you whittle that down to a few places then maybe make a decision based on "fit".

Now i apologize if you're already familiar with this, but the top 14 schools are the only ones with a truly national reach in that they'll open the door to just about any market, as well as the most competitive jobs. Some of them are better than others, but if you're not sure you want big law and you have a really nice scholarship to say, Duke or even Georgetown it might make sense for you to pick them over say, Columbia. Also if you're really into public interest or something identifying a school that tends to feed more into that and has a good LRAP is something you also want to consider.

But since you asked about campus environments: there's a lot of Northwesterners on these boards and they seem like a very genial bunch and they've really made me want to go there really, really bad.

I'll also add that its really hard to predict where you'll end up in your class and you should assume you'll be at median, and then consider what might happen to you if you're below median.

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CyanIdes Of March
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Re: 154, 154, 157, 171, 166.... what's going on??

Postby CyanIdes Of March » Fri Feb 01, 2013 1:49 am

Zoomie wrote:Umm, you aren't willing to skip the superbowl to study for a test you are taking in a week and a half that could mean in/out, money/no money. Smh....my advice, watch the Super Bowl. Forget about law school.


This.

Because the OP bugs me with his/her pretty decent diagnostic and total lack of knowledge or even the most basic research into what he plans to do for a career. Don't study, don't apply to better schools, have fun with paying tuition Madison. The less people with 4.0s I have to compete with the better lol.

Theopliske8711 wrote:
TripTrip wrote:Oh god OP. Take June. Spend the meantime on this site until you understand why we're telling you to wait until June.

Then enjoy T6.

Here's the schools you can go to if you break into the 99th percentile: http://myLSN.info/w3r5ha

Many you'll get for free.


So even if you have a 4.0 and 180, you only have a 30% shot at Yale and 50% shot at Stanford? :shock:


No, that included everything from 170 to 180 and 3.9 to 4.1.

bogydog
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Re: 154, 154, 157, 171, 166.... what's going on??

Postby bogydog » Fri Feb 01, 2013 3:13 am

I'll admit to a lack of knowledge/research...why do you think I'm here? Sure, I'm a procrastinator, but it's not like I don't care about my future just because I'm not applying to Harvard. It seems like the main advantage of applying to a better school is to get a big law job. I know I would be tempted by the big $$, but I really don't want to be married to my job. Law is a career, and one I think I'll like and be good at, but I also want to have a family, go my kid's sporting events, etc. Worldly success isn't exactly my number one priority in life.

And thanks feralinfant... I'll definitely look into Northwestern some more and have started checking out some of the schools on your link. Michigan looks promising too now since I think I might be leaning toward international law.

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RhymesLikeDimes
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Re: 154, 154, 157, 171, 166.... what's going on??

Postby RhymesLikeDimes » Fri Feb 01, 2013 6:31 am

I completely respect that, but a handful of points on the LSAT can be the difference between paying sticker and getting a full scholarship. Especially if your goal school isn't that highly ranked. Even at a public school like Wisconsin, that could still save you $60K.

nmillette
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Re: 154, 154, 157, 171, 166.... what's going on??

Postby nmillette » Fri Feb 01, 2013 8:49 am

Hi,

I totally get where your coming from. I only started preparing for the LSAT exam about 1 month ago. Have not yet done a practice test but I intend to start that over the weekend.

However, I have read and re-read The LR, RC and LG Bibles from Power Score. I am not super confident about the exam but I want to start Law School in the 2012-2013 cycle so I am trying my best at this point.

You should still sit the Feb exam even if its just for practice! Good Luck, I am aiming for 165!

I have a question! LSAC processed my Transcripts (from a foreign University) and my GPA remained the same 3.85 but my University uses a 4.3 GPA scale. Can anyone tell me how this affects my GPA given that most US schools use a 4.0 GPA scale.

bogydog
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Re: 154, 154, 157, 171, 166.... what's going on??

Postby bogydog » Fri Feb 01, 2013 10:35 am

I completely respect that, but a handful of points on the LSAT can be the difference between paying sticker and getting a full scholarship. Especially if your goal school isn't that highly ranked. Even at a public school like Wisconsin, that could still save you $60K.


That makes sense... is it also true that even with the same score, I would probably get more scholarship money if I applied early rather than just barely squeezing in before the deadline? That they tend to run out of financial aid as the admissions cycle goes along?

I totally get where your coming from. I only started preparing for the LSAT exam about 1 month ago. Have not yet done a practice test but I intend to start that over the weekend.

However, I have read and re-read The LR, RC and LG Bibles from Power Score. I am not super confident about the exam but I want to start Law School in the 2012-2013 cycle so I am trying my best at this point.

You should still sit the Feb exam even if its just for practice! Good Luck, I am aiming for 165!

I have a question! LSAC processed my Transcripts (from a foreign University) and my GPA remained the same 3.85 but my University uses a 4.3 GPA scale. Can anyone tell me how this affects my GPA given that most US schools use a 4.0 GPA scale.


Good luck!! I wish my school library had those books. If I take the LSAT in June, which I am now leaning toward, I'll probably shell out and buy them! Along with those books full of real practice tests.

I'm not sure about your GPA question. You might get lucky and get the answer from somewhere here, but you'll probably get it immediately if you start a new thread about it.

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francesfarmer
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Re: 154, 154, 157, 171, 166.... what's going on??

Postby francesfarmer » Fri Feb 01, 2013 10:52 am

nmillette wrote:Hi,

I totally get where your coming from. I only started preparing for the LSAT exam about 1 month ago. Have not yet done a practice test but I intend to start that over the weekend.

However, I have read and re-read The LR, RC and LG Bibles from Power Score. I am not super confident about the exam but I want to start Law School in the 2012-2013 cycle so I am trying my best at this point.

You should still sit the Feb exam even if its just for practice! Good Luck, I am aiming for 165!

I have a question! LSAC processed my Transcripts (from a foreign University) and my GPA remained the same 3.85 but my University uses a 4.3 GPA scale. Can anyone tell me how this affects my GPA given that most US schools use a 4.0 GPA scale.

The only GPA that matters is your LSAC GPA. That is the only GPA law schools will care about.

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francesfarmer
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Re: 154, 154, 157, 171, 166.... what's going on??

Postby francesfarmer » Fri Feb 01, 2013 10:53 am

bogydog wrote:I'll admit to a lack of knowledge/research...why do you think I'm here? Sure, I'm a procrastinator, but it's not like I don't care about my future just because I'm not applying to Harvard. It seems like the main advantage of applying to a better school is to get a big law job. I know I would be tempted by the big $$, but I really don't want to be married to my job. Law is a career, and one I think I'll like and be good at, but I also want to have a family, go my kid's sporting events, etc. Worldly success isn't exactly my number one priority in life.

And thanks feralinfant... I'll definitely look into Northwestern some more and have started checking out some of the schools on your link. Michigan looks promising too now since I think I might be leaning toward international law.

International law is incredibly niche and hard to get. If that's what you want (though I'm pretty sure you don't know what international law means--most people don't) then you need to go to HYS.

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francesfarmer
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Re: 154, 154, 157, 171, 166.... what's going on??

Postby francesfarmer » Fri Feb 01, 2013 10:56 am

bogydog wrote:Thanks so much everyone, I really really appreciate your comments (even the snarky ones).

The more I think about it, the more appealing it sounds to take a year off in between, no matter where I end up going, although I definitely identify with the "what the heck am I gonna do?!" fear, especially since my only major is Spanish. I think you guys are probably right about being able to improve my score to 170+ with some studying. The question then would be where to go, or if there is a school I'd rather attend than Madison. I love WI, and I really can't imagine it being *that* hard to find a job. I'm assuming I could graduate in the top half or fourth of the class, which would probably make it more than 44% likely that I'd find a job.It would be super cool to go to Stanford, but realistically my "soft" factors aren't Stanford-worthy, and I'm a decent writer but not exceptional. HY don't appeal to me, and I haven't really looked into other non-WI schools. Is there a site that offers campus environment descriptions of the for some of the mid-top schools?

Northwestern is an idea worth considering. I like Chicago, and a 150k scholarship would be fantastic, but I'm not sure about the whole work experience thing. Not only am I not sure what I would want to do, I'm not even sure what impressive looking job I could do with my Spanish major.

It is incredibly hard to find a job as a lawyer right now, and you have no idea what kind of grades you will get in law school. Everything is graded on a curve.

https://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/31/educ ... t.html?hpw

http://m.theatlantic.com/business/archi ... be/272729/

I'm not trying to harp on you or be a debbie downer, but you seriously need to educate yourself on law school and employment outcomes.




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