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Josh4737
Posts: 56
Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2013 5:43 pm

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Postby Josh4737 » Tue Jan 29, 2013 8:42 pm

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Last edited by Josh4737 on Wed Dec 24, 2014 6:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.

magickware
Posts: 359
Joined: Sun Nov 04, 2012 1:27 pm

Re: Need help with my next step

Postby magickware » Tue Jan 29, 2013 10:27 pm

Why're you studying so early?

I'd honestly say put off the 7sage guide until you've done many games (at least half the existing games) multiple times. While guidance is absolutely required to get to the -0 everyone wants, you want to develop your own intuitive feel and understanding of the games before you start receiving help. Personally, I just used their guides to find out how to make inferences that I never quite intuitively grasped myself.

It is also worth noting that games are not all equal. Some are incredibly easy, while others may just dazzle you with their language or the way their rules are written. Therefore, having one particular game confuse you doesn't really mean much. It may mean a whole lot more if similar game types consistently confuse you. So be sure to check that.

Personally, I saw little to no improvements in games until I got to about four-five weeks of doing lots of games and trying to understand them myself. Then, suddenly, I made a break from a consistent -5 to -7 to -0 to -4, seemingly overnight. Later, once I discovered the 7sage guides, I am consistently in -0 to -2, depending on stupid errors.

So, don't worry about your current progress. 3-4 weeks is not a whole lot in LSAT prep, unless you're quite good at logical reasoning as is and just need to get the LSAT question types.

The CambridgeLSAT that everyone talks about is this-http://www.cambridgelsat.com/bundles/logic-games-by-type/

Basically, that company was nice enough to organize the first 38 tests into their proper types for the RC/AR/LR. They are incredibly helpful at studying the test, because you can do focused work on each game type/LR type/etc. You just have to pay a lot of money for it.

And do not aim for 8:45 for each game. Aim for 7:00 or under. That way you will have some time left for brutally hard games/grinders that do not have inferences/ questions that you think you may have made stupid mistakes on.

But you shouldn't be timing yourself until you're capable of getting every game a -0 untimed anyhow.

Josh4737
Posts: 56
Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2013 5:43 pm

Re: Need help with my next step

Postby Josh4737 » Tue Jan 29, 2013 11:19 pm

Personally I'm taking the LSAT this early because I'll be abroad next year and I won't have the proper time to dedicate for LSAT prep. Thanks for the advice. So my next step should be to buy/go through the LSAT Logic Games by Type (PrepTests 1–38)? I've also heard some people say on TLS that games 1-39 are the ones to practice on as they are more difficult than more recent games, is there any truth to this?

Also, should I continue to read the other bible books and study for LR and RC as I study for LG? Or should I wait until I have LG down to 0-2 consistently before moving on. If it changes the strategy at all, my goal is a 170+. Thanks

magickware
Posts: 359
Joined: Sun Nov 04, 2012 1:27 pm

Re: Need help with my next step

Postby magickware » Wed Jan 30, 2013 1:51 am

It doesn't particularly matter, so long as you put focused question type work (doing LG by question type/ LR by family groups) before doing PTs or section tests. That was the mistake I made for my first LSAT test, and so everyone I talk to concerning the LSAT I tell them to not make the same mistake.

You can just study bits by bits for the LSAT. Hell, it's probably better than trying to learn everything within a couple of months. That way, you can get a general feel for your weakness and build familiarity with the test before you go into dedicated study 3-4 months before the test.

The earlier games are not more difficult. The games from about 50-59ish are just really easy because LSAC didn't throw a whole lot of hard grouping games iirc. Plus, the AR gets easier as you just do it, and so doing the games in the first 38 tests basically means you'll be a lot more prepared to do the later games.

In terms of studying, it may help if you prioritize RC and LG before LR. RC will be the hardest to raise your points in, depending on how strong of a reader you already are. If you are a strong reader, then it's just a matter of finding the method that works for you. If you're a weak reader, then spending a shit-ton of time learning how the RC works by spending hours dissecting passages and finding what they do. I strongly recommend that you get the Manhattan LSAT RC guide. It will cut the time in studying RC in half by letting you know what to look for, and then it just becomes a matter of finding your style.

LG is the easiest to raise points in because it's just a matter of repetition. The vast majority of LGs are effectively the same thing. You're using the rules they give you to create inferences and then solve the questions by using said inferences. Beyond that, grouping games build upon concepts in ordering games and so on. Therefore, imo it helps to consider every game types as a natural progression. Get your ordering games down perfectly before you move onto grouping. Then go from games that have equal distribution of spaces/terms (forget what they're called), then to uneven distribution of spaces and terms.

If you study them in such a progression there's really no reason why you'd ever get anything under a -2 (leaving space for silly errors). Of course there are games types that are quite rare and unusual in their design, but those are very rare in the recent (2004 and upwards) tests. The time you spent on learning the progression and the way the games work will help on those though, so long as you remain flexible and remember that all rules must work with one another in some manner.

In fact, that's probably the single most important thing about the games that I wished someone told me straight from the start- All the rules are designed to work with one another in some form. Either combining the rules will outright create inferences, or the questions themselves will define limitations that allow you to work the rules together to create inferences for that particular question.

LR is a coin-toss, depending on your own prior background/eye for logical reasoning. If you have a very solid, inquisitive mindset, then you're probably solid. If you're used to reading things and not questioning specifics wordings/what have you, then you'll probably have to hunker down and prepare to work your ass off. The only advice I can give for LR is that you spend at least a week on each question type and get them down perfectly. Focus mostly on the hardest questions. There is a WORLD of difference between the easy ones and the hard ones, and if you get the hardest ones then the easy ones will be cake. And as many 180ers have written on this site before, find a method in which you can copy/cut out questions you get wrong when you start doing the PTs. Look at those daily and concretely find out why they're wrong. Even if you memorize the questions themselves, still take the time to be able to write out why A/B/C/D/E are wrong. If you do this in an serious manner instead of breezing through it, your LR will probably be solid.

Esp. since your goal is 170+ (as it should be for everyone =P), I'd recommend that you focus on the parts before the whole. Getting a solid understanding of the LSAT is key to getting the top score. Don't try to use tricks. Learn the tricks and see why they work, but don't rely on them without knowing why they work.

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suralin
better than you
Posts: 15112
Joined: Wed Nov 14, 2012 1:52 am

Re: Need help with my next step

Postby suralin » Wed Jan 30, 2013 2:12 am

magickware wrote:It doesn't particularly matter, so long as you put focused question type work (doing LG by question type/ LR by family groups) before doing PTs or section tests. That was the mistake I made for my first LSAT test, and so everyone I talk to concerning the LSAT I tell them to not make the same mistake.

You can just study bits by bits for the LSAT. Hell, it's probably better than trying to learn everything within a couple of months. That way, you can get a general feel for your weakness and build familiarity with the test before you go into dedicated study 3-4 months before the test.

The earlier games are not more difficult. The games from about 50-59ish are just really easy because LSAC didn't throw a whole lot of hard grouping games iirc. Plus, the AR gets easier as you just do it, and so doing the games in the first 38 tests basically means you'll be a lot more prepared to do the later games.

In terms of studying, it may help if you prioritize RC and LG before LR. RC will be the hardest to raise your points in, depending on how strong of a reader you already are. If you are a strong reader, then it's just a matter of finding the method that works for you. If you're a weak reader, then spending a shit-ton of time learning how the RC works by spending hours dissecting passages and finding what they do. I strongly recommend that you get the Manhattan LSAT RC guide. It will cut the time in studying RC in half by letting you know what to look for, and then it just becomes a matter of finding your style.

LG is the easiest to raise points in because it's just a matter of repetition. The vast majority of LGs are effectively the same thing. You're using the rules they give you to create inferences and then solve the questions by using said inferences. Beyond that, grouping games build upon concepts in ordering games and so on. Therefore, imo it helps to consider every game types as a natural progression. Get your ordering games down perfectly before you move onto grouping. Then go from games that have equal distribution of spaces/terms (forget what they're called), then to uneven distribution of spaces and terms.

If you study them in such a progression there's really no reason why you'd ever get anything under a -2 (leaving space for silly errors). Of course there are games types that are quite rare and unusual in their design, but those are very rare in the recent (2004 and upwards) tests. The time you spent on learning the progression and the way the games work will help on those though, so long as you remain flexible and remember that all rules must work with one another in some manner.

In fact, that's probably the single most important thing about the games that I wished someone told me straight from the start- All the rules are designed to work with one another in some form. Either combining the rules will outright create inferences, or the questions themselves will define limitations that allow you to work the rules together to create inferences for that particular question.

LR is a coin-toss, depending on your own prior background/eye for logical reasoning. If you have a very solid, inquisitive mindset, then you're probably solid. If you're used to reading things and not questioning specifics wordings/what have you, then you'll probably have to hunker down and prepare to work your ass off. The only advice I can give for LR is that you spend at least a week on each question type and get them down perfectly. Focus mostly on the hardest questions. There is a WORLD of difference between the easy ones and the hard ones, and if you get the hardest ones then the easy ones will be cake. And as many 180ers have written on this site before, find a method in which you can copy/cut out questions you get wrong when you start doing the PTs. Look at those daily and concretely find out why they're wrong. Even if you memorize the questions themselves, still take the time to be able to write out why A/B/C/D/E are wrong. If you do this in an serious manner instead of breezing through it, your LR will probably be solid.

Esp. since your goal is 170+ (as it should be for everyone =P), I'd recommend that you focus on the parts before the whole. Getting a solid understanding of the LSAT is key to getting the top score. Don't try to use tricks. Learn the tricks and see why they work, but don't rely on them without knowing why they work.


+1, really good advice. I'd just reiterate that PT review is just as, if not more, important as taking PTs.

Legallybronzed180
Posts: 32
Joined: Tue Jan 29, 2013 9:50 pm

Re: Need help with my next step

Postby Legallybronzed180 » Wed Jan 30, 2013 9:44 am

You have to remember some games are easier then others. You can't always stick to 8 minutes per a game. You have to be strategic when you approach a full game section. So e games should be quick and take you 3 to 4 minutes while others might be harder and you will need 10 minutes. You have to do the easy games ( this goes for all sections) fast so you bank time for the harder stuff. You should practice easy and basic games and them down pat in 3/4 minutes. For example, this past dec test the first two games were easy should have taken you 3 minutes if you spent to much time you would not have enough time for the last two games which were more time consuming. That's how the test was designed do the first games fast and have extra time for the hard stuff. This is also true for lr do the first questions build up speed so you will have a few extra minutes to go through and read the really tough questions that might take a few reads.

Josh4737
Posts: 56
Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2013 5:43 pm

Re: Need help with my next step

Postby Josh4737 » Sat Feb 02, 2013 1:17 am

Just wanted to say thanks. I started working on the new strategies and so far it's been working great.

Redbandit
Posts: 28
Joined: Thu Jan 03, 2013 1:57 am

Re: Need help with my next step

Postby Redbandit » Sat Feb 02, 2013 3:11 am

One other point. I found that doing un-timed, at first, was how I raised my speed and accuracy.

Before you become to obsessed with lowering your time, just get comfortable diagramming and working within their frameworks.




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