October 2013 (re)take Thread

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RuleSubstitution
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Re: October 2013 (re)take Thread

Postby RuleSubstitution » Tue Jul 02, 2013 11:07 pm

capricorn13 wrote:Hello! Checking in also. I've been studying for 6 months for the June exam but canceled the score because the experimental RC in the first section ruined me and I thought that I could do better. The test anxiety coupled with stress ruined me also! Going over PTs and trying to make my weakest section (LG) to my strongest.
Good luck everyone!


Here's to making our weaknesses into strengths! July is the month of AR monomania.

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snagglepuss
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Re: October 2013 (re)take Thread

Postby snagglepuss » Tue Jul 02, 2013 11:15 pm

snagglepuss wrote:I'm going to jump in here.

I got 5 wrong on the !Kung passage alone.
Last edited by snagglepuss on Fri Apr 18, 2014 2:19 am, edited 2 times in total.

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ScottRiqui
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Re: October 2013 (re)take Thread

Postby ScottRiqui » Tue Jul 02, 2013 11:26 pm

RuleSubstitution wrote:
ScottRiqui wrote:Checking in. Scored 167 in June, but lost more than half of my total points in LG (8 of 15), which was typical for me up to that point. Changed my games strategy and been hitting it hard since a week after test day, and seeing great improvements already.

Aiming for ~175 in October. I already have the numbers for one of the schools I'm interested in, but trying to bump up the LSAT to improve my chances at my other choice.


How have you stepped it up? That's a good score btw. Some impressive test takers here.


Thanks. The biggest difference has been going from a Velocity prep style, where you don't worry about inferences, instead just getting the rules and diagram written down and then diving right into "plugging and chugging" the questions. I initially went with Velocity because I was slow to make inferences, so I thought the brute-force/no pauses style would work better for me. But you end up having to generate a LOT of hypos, and it turns out I wasn't super-fast at that, either. My accuracy was fairly good, but I'd consistently run out of time with up to a full game left in the section. By brute-forcing every game all the way through, I never got any of those quick times that give you cushion to use on the longer games. That's what happened to me on test day.

Now, I've gone more to a Manhattan/7sage method where I spend more time on the front end of the game, finding inferences and framing out several different diagrams if the game warrants it. It takes longer to get to the questions, but I find that for many of the questions, I can either read the answer right off of my diagram(s), or at least rule out several answer choices right off the bat. I'm still drilling by type, so I haven't gotten to all of the various game types using the new strategy, but it's not uncommon now for me to finish a game in 3:30-5:00, which *never* happened before.

xmking07
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Re: October 2013 (re)take Thread

Postby xmking07 » Wed Jul 03, 2013 12:11 am

RuleSubstitution wrote:
capricorn13 wrote:Hello! Checking in also. I've been studying for 6 months for the June exam but canceled the score because the experimental RC in the first section ruined me and I thought that I could do better. The test anxiety coupled with stress ruined me also! Going over PTs and trying to make my weakest section (LG) to my strongest.
Good luck everyone!


Here's to making our weaknesses into strengths! July is the month of AR monomania.


Well, the good thing about retaking is that you have three months to practice, and probably up your target score. I know I will.

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johmica
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Re: October 2013 (re)take Thread

Postby johmica » Wed Jul 03, 2013 7:17 am

PotenC wrote:Checking in, got a 167 yesterday, well below my PT average. Shooting for a 175+ to pair with my GPA. Anybody planning on buying The LSAT Trainer book in preparation for the retake? I used the Manhattan ones for June but a new book might be a good change of pace for the next three months.


I just learned about the LSAT Trainer yesterday. Does seem a bit expensive. Anyone with experience with the product? Even the one Amazon review focuses more on the author and less on the content of the book. Apparently, the guy also contributed to the Manhattan series? Does the LSAT trainer differ substantially enough from Manhattan to justify the price-tag?

Pure Protein
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Re: October 2013 (re)take Thread

Postby Pure Protein » Wed Jul 03, 2013 7:28 am

Anyone know of a website that has all of the Logic Games organized by question type? I bought the Cambridge Bundle that has all 68 but LSAT Blog only has them categorized through 38.

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ScottRiqui
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Re: October 2013 (re)take Thread

Postby ScottRiqui » Wed Jul 03, 2013 8:31 am

Pure Protein wrote:Anyone know of a website that has all of the Logic Games organized by question type? I bought the Cambridge Bundle that has all 68 but LSAT Blog only has them categorized through 38.


LSAT Blog has the later ones, too - it just might be hard to find them by navigating through the site. I ended up there directly from a Google search:

39-51

52-present

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patfeeney
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Re: October 2013 (re)take Thread

Postby patfeeney » Wed Jul 03, 2013 8:57 am

Checking in because I had my ticket for the June exam but withdrew at the last minute. The October is essentially a retake in my opinion.

Pure Protein
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Re: October 2013 (re)take Thread

Postby Pure Protein » Wed Jul 03, 2013 9:59 am

ScottRiqui wrote:
Pure Protein wrote:Anyone know of a website that has all of the Logic Games organized by question type? I bought the Cambridge Bundle that has all 68 but LSAT Blog only has them categorized through 38.


LSAT Blog has the later ones, too - it just might be hard to find them by navigating through the site. I ended up there directly from a Google search:

39-51

52-present



Wow, I completely missed that. Thanks for the help.

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TheMostDangerousLG
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Re: October 2013 (re)take Thread

Postby TheMostDangerousLG » Wed Jul 03, 2013 10:27 am

Just received a fee waiver from Florida International University College of Law (a college and a university, how exciting!). Looks like there's no need to retake after all! :wink:

Cambridge LSAT
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Re: October 2013 (re)take Thread

Postby Cambridge LSAT » Wed Jul 03, 2013 10:35 am

Pure Protein wrote:Anyone know of a website that has all of the Logic Games organized by question type? I bought the Cambridge Bundle that has all 68 but LSAT Blog only has them categorized through 38.

You can use our LSAT PrepTest classifications page to see how we categorize them. Pull down the type filter to "LG." The types are also listed in our LSAT Logic Games tracker spreadsheet.

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Beercules
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Re: October 2013 (re)take Thread

Postby Beercules » Wed Jul 03, 2013 10:36 am

Checking in. June 2013 taker. October retaker. What's everyone's gameplan when it comes to getting applications in? I suppose so long as everything is in before Thanksgiving, we're solid? Just makes this test that much more important. Let's get it.

NanaP
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Re: October 2013 (re)take Thread

Postby NanaP » Wed Jul 03, 2013 12:47 pm

TheMostDangerousLG wrote:Just received a fee waiver from Florida International University College of Law (a college and a university, how exciting!). Looks like there's no need to retake after all! :wink:



I am confused as to why you are retaking. You got a 175, at this point it's all about your PS, and soft factors

xmking07
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Re: October 2013 (re)take Thread

Postby xmking07 » Wed Jul 03, 2013 1:10 pm

TheMostDangerousLG wrote:Just received a fee waiver from Florida International University College of Law (a college and a university, how exciting!). Looks like there's no need to retake after all! :wink:


Me too, and W&M for literally the fourth time...

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Ambitious1
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Re: October 2013 (re)take Thread

Postby Ambitious1 » Wed Jul 03, 2013 1:14 pm

goldbh7 wrote:I've been posting this all over TLS and haven't gotten a response so I'm just going to spam it here:

For people going to their third attempt, is there any unbiased evidence publicly available that shows that a third attempt is or isn't harmful to law school admissions chances? I've heard a lot of anecdotal evidence of the value of a third attempt (TLS) and of how a third attempt can really hurt your chances because it shows desperation and any improvement short of 4+ points won't do anything (some law school admins).


I don't think it can hurt significantly unless your 3rd score is the same or less than any other administration. However, if you manage to raise your score 4 or more points, it can only help you significantly.

xmking07
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Re: October 2013 (re)take Thread

Postby xmking07 » Wed Jul 03, 2013 1:36 pm

Ambitious1 wrote:
goldbh7 wrote:I've been posting this all over TLS and haven't gotten a response so I'm just going to spam it here:

For people going to their third attempt, is there any unbiased evidence publicly available that shows that a third attempt is or isn't harmful to law school admissions chances? I've heard a lot of anecdotal evidence of the value of a third attempt (TLS) and of how a third attempt can really hurt your chances because it shows desperation and any improvement short of 4+ points won't do anything (some law school admins).


I don't think it can hurt significantly unless your 3rd score is the same or less than any other administration. However, if you manage to raise your score 4 or more points, it can only help you significantly.


Part of this may be that the majority of people that take the test more than once don't see improvement or do worse. If you think you underperformed both times or didn't study enough retaking is in your best interest so long as you prepare adequately. Also, a good number of top tier schools take the highest LSAT score and that should be taken into consideration.

Here is a spreadsheet detailing the top 35 schools (as of last year's USNWR rankings):

https://docs.google.com/a/g.fmarion.edu ... zcnc#gid=0

Column M details each school's LSAT policy, be it average, highest, or holistic.

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objection_your_honor
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Re: October 2013 (re)take Thread

Postby objection_your_honor » Wed Jul 03, 2013 1:42 pm

xmking07 wrote:
Ambitious1 wrote:
goldbh7 wrote:I've been posting this all over TLS and haven't gotten a response so I'm just going to spam it here:

For people going to their third attempt, is there any unbiased evidence publicly available that shows that a third attempt is or isn't harmful to law school admissions chances? I've heard a lot of anecdotal evidence of the value of a third attempt (TLS) and of how a third attempt can really hurt your chances because it shows desperation and any improvement short of 4+ points won't do anything (some law school admins).


I don't think it can hurt significantly unless your 3rd score is the same or less than any other administration. However, if you manage to raise your score 4 or more points, it can only help you significantly.


Part of this may be that the majority of people that take the test more than once don't see improvement or do worse. If you think you underperformed both times or didn't study enough retaking is in your best interest so long as you prepare adequately. Also, a good number of top tier schools take the highest LSAT score and that should be taken into consideration.

Here is a spreadsheet detailing the top 35 schools (as of last year's USNWR rankings):

https://docs.google.com/a/g.fmarion.edu ... zcnc#gid=0

Column M details each school's LSAT policy, be it average, highest, or holistic.


How accurate is this? It says that GULC takes an average if 2+ retakes. Currently I have OK admission chances there. If I retake again and score slightly higher, you're saying that could effectively lower my admission chances?

xmking07
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Re: October 2013 (re)take Thread

Postby xmking07 » Wed Jul 03, 2013 1:47 pm

objection_your_honor,

The GULC LSAT information is correct. I've emailed them and asked and the response I received was "The Admissions Committee will consider only the higher score if there are two scores on file. If there are more than two scores, the Committee will consider the averaged score."

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jingosaur
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Re: October 2013 (re)take Thread

Postby jingosaur » Wed Jul 03, 2013 1:51 pm

objection_your_honor wrote:
xmking07 wrote:
Ambitious1 wrote:
goldbh7 wrote:I've been posting this all over TLS and haven't gotten a response so I'm just going to spam it here:

For people going to their third attempt, is there any unbiased evidence publicly available that shows that a third attempt is or isn't harmful to law school admissions chances? I've heard a lot of anecdotal evidence of the value of a third attempt (TLS) and of how a third attempt can really hurt your chances because it shows desperation and any improvement short of 4+ points won't do anything (some law school admins).


I don't think it can hurt significantly unless your 3rd score is the same or less than any other administration. However, if you manage to raise your score 4 or more points, it can only help you significantly.


Part of this may be that the majority of people that take the test more than once don't see improvement or do worse. If you think you underperformed both times or didn't study enough retaking is in your best interest so long as you prepare adequately. Also, a good number of top tier schools take the highest LSAT score and that should be taken into consideration.

Here is a spreadsheet detailing the top 35 schools (as of last year's USNWR rankings):

https://docs.google.com/a/g.fmarion.edu ... zcnc#gid=0

Column M details each school's LSAT policy, be it average, highest, or holistic.


How accurate is this? It says that GULC takes an average if 2+ retakes. Currently I have OK admission chances there. If I retake again and score slightly higher, you're saying that could effectively lower my admission chances?


Thanks for the help guys. Penn is my target school and I'm currently sitting at a 169->170 and 3.76. They take the highest so the goal is to retake for some more scholly money. Also my PT average would put me above Harvard and Columbia medians so maybe they'd forgive me.

As far as anecdotal retake evidence for Georgetown goes, I know someone with a 3.7 and a 170 and two mid 160s scores and got in on a half scholarship.

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RuleSubstitution
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Re: October 2013 (re)take Thread

Postby RuleSubstitution » Wed Jul 03, 2013 1:53 pm

ScottRiqui wrote:
Pure Protein wrote:Anyone know of a website that has all of the Logic Games organized by question type? I bought the Cambridge Bundle that has all 68 but LSAT Blog only has them categorized through 38.


LSAT Blog has the later ones, too - it just might be hard to find them by navigating through the site. I ended up there directly from a Google search:

39-51

52-present


Yesss. I got to avoid the arduous task of using google to find this! I am still debating whether to drop money on cambridge for lr.

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RuleSubstitution
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Re: October 2013 (re)take Thread

Postby RuleSubstitution » Wed Jul 03, 2013 1:57 pm

xmking07 wrote:
TheMostDangerousLG wrote:Just received a fee waiver from Florida International University College of Law (a college and a university, how exciting!). Looks like there's no need to retake after all! :wink:


Me too, and W&M for literally the fourth time...

Yeah, why not go teach english to orphans in a third world country?

Edit: I am kidding. I am sure you want more $ from schools? You may even die out there. How many LSAT related deaths have there been in 69 tests?

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RuleSubstitution
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Re: October 2013 (re)take Thread

Postby RuleSubstitution » Wed Jul 03, 2013 2:03 pm

xmking07 wrote:objection_your_honor,

The GULC LSAT information is correct. I've emailed them and asked and the response I received was "The Admissions Committee will consider only the higher score if there are two scores on file. If there are more than two scores, the Committee will consider the averaged score."


Addendums aren't just disregarded. If you have a ten pt increase on your 3rd attempt, I'd advise you write one.

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RuleSubstitution
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Re: October 2013 (re)take Thread

Postby RuleSubstitution » Wed Jul 03, 2013 2:05 pm

johmica wrote:
PotenC wrote:Checking in, got a 167 yesterday, well below my PT average. Shooting for a 175+ to pair with my GPA. Anybody planning on buying The LSAT Trainer book in preparation for the retake? I used the Manhattan ones for June but a new book might be a good change of pace for the next three months.


I just learned about the LSAT Trainer yesterday. Does seem a bit expensive. Anyone with experience with the product? Even the one Amazon review focuses more on the author and less on the content of the book. Apparently, the guy also contributed to the Manhattan series? Does the LSAT trainer differ substantially enough from Manhattan to justify the price-tag?

This.

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Clarity
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Re: October 2013 (re)take Thread

Postby Clarity » Wed Jul 03, 2013 2:18 pm

wtrcoins3 wrote:Checking in, reluctantly.


+1

norkanite
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Re: October 2013 (re)take Thread

Postby norkanite » Wed Jul 03, 2013 2:33 pm

Also checking in - last took it in 2011 and got a 170 on Kraplan. Restarting on Saturday.




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