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Re: misconduct at the dec lsat! HELPPP

Posted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 11:23 am
by eap12123
dingbat wrote:
eap12123 wrote:I also didn't say anywhere that I shouldn't be disadvantaged, rather that if some people ge away with actual infractions all the time, i shouldn't be punished on an ambiguity. My "mistake" does warrant an investigation, but a fair one. My violation slip should read as what happened. It should say I picked my pencil up, not that I was "filling in answers after time was called", because I was doing no such thing.

So just because some speeders don't get caught, others should not get ticketed?
If absolute certainty was the standard for cheating very few would get caught. How many people would be filling in extra bubbles with the knowledge that they could challenge if they got caught?
This isn't a court of law where proof beyond a reasonable doubt is required for a felony conviction. This is entry to a profession that aims to be above reproach. In an academic setting an accusation of cheating is serious and a lawyer's reputation should be spotless. If you have issues with that, you should not enter.
Hell, a judge once had his career ended for accepting a bowl of spaghetti at a charity fundraiser.


Other speeders should get ticketed, but people driving in cars that look like they might speed shouldn't.

I'm very aware of how terrible an accusation of cheating looks in an academic setting, which is exactly why they shouldn't go around pointing fingers at people without being aware of how serious the consequences are. The majority of these proctors are random people that have never taken tests like this in their lives. LSAC should work to hire legitimate people that know what they're doing, or, even better, computerize the exam to avoid crap like this happening. I really don't want to argue about whether I acted similarly to a drunk driver anymore. I came on this forum to see if anyone else has been in a similar situation that could provide advice, not to have you lecture me on the effects of cheating and the "ignorance" of holding a pencil.

Re: misconduct at the dec lsat! HELPPP

Posted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 11:30 am
by A → B ⊨ ¬B → ¬A
eap12123 wrote:
dingbat wrote:
eap12123 wrote:I also didn't say anywhere that I shouldn't be disadvantaged, rather that if some people ge away with actual infractions all the time, i shouldn't be punished on an ambiguity. My "mistake" does warrant an investigation, but a fair one. My violation slip should read as what happened. It should say I picked my pencil up, not that I was "filling in answers after time was called", because I was doing no such thing.

So just because some speeders don't get caught, others should not get ticketed?
If absolute certainty was the standard for cheating very few would get caught. How many people would be filling in extra bubbles with the knowledge that they could challenge if they got caught?
This isn't a court of law where proof beyond a reasonable doubt is required for a felony conviction. This is entry to a profession that aims to be above reproach. In an academic setting an accusation of cheating is serious and a lawyer's reputation should be spotless. If you have issues with that, you should not enter.
Hell, a judge once had his career ended for accepting a bowl of spaghetti at a charity fundraiser.


Other speeders should get ticketed, but people driving in cars that look like they might speed shouldn't.

I'm very aware of how terrible an accusation of cheating looks in an academic setting, which is exactly why they shouldn't go around pointing fingers at people without being aware of how serious the consequences are. The majority of these proctors are random people that have never taken tests like this in their lives. LSAC should work to hire legitimate people that know what they're doing, or, even better, computerize the exam to avoid crap like this happening. I really don't want to argue about whether I acted similarly to a drunk driver anymore. I came on this forum to see if anyone else has been in a similar situation that could provide advice, not to have you lecture me on the effects of cheating and the "ignorance" of holding a pencil.

You got fucked and you should fight it tooth and nail, just not with anything you've said here other than what you did and what the rules say.

Re: misconduct at the dec lsat! HELPPP

Posted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 11:43 am
by dingbat
eap12123 wrote:
dingbat wrote:
eap12123 wrote:I also didn't say anywhere that I shouldn't be disadvantaged, rather that if some people ge away with actual infractions all the time, i shouldn't be punished on an ambiguity. My "mistake" does warrant an investigation, but a fair one. My violation slip should read as what happened. It should say I picked my pencil up, not that I was "filling in answers after time was called", because I was doing no such thing.

So just because some speeders don't get caught, others should not get ticketed?
If absolute certainty was the standard for cheating very few would get caught. How many people would be filling in extra bubbles with the knowledge that they could challenge if they got caught?
This isn't a court of law where proof beyond a reasonable doubt is required for a felony conviction. This is entry to a profession that aims to be above reproach. In an academic setting an accusation of cheating is serious and a lawyer's reputation should be spotless. If you have issues with that, you should not enter.
Hell, a judge once had his career ended for accepting a bowl of spaghetti at a charity fundraiser.


Other speeders should get ticketed, but people driving in cars that look like they might speed shouldn't.

I'm very aware of how terrible an accusation of cheating looks in an academic setting, which is exactly why they shouldn't go around pointing fingers at people without being aware of how serious the consequences are. The majority of these proctors are random people that have never taken tests like this in their lives. LSAC should work to hire legitimate people that know what they're doing, or, even better, computerize the exam to avoid crap like this happening. I really don't want to argue about whether I acted similarly to a drunk driver anymore. I came on this forum to see if anyone else has been in a similar situation that could provide advice, not to have you lecture me on the effects of cheating and the "ignorance" of holding a pencil.
The better course of action is to never put yourself in a position where you could be accused of cheating. You fucked up. It happens.
Draft a letter to LSAC, have it carefully scrutinized, send it in and hope for the best

Re: misconduct at the dec lsat! HELPPP

Posted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 11:46 am
by TripTrip
dingbat wrote:The better course of action is to never put yourself in a position where you could be accused of cheating. You fucked up. It happens.
Draft a letter to LSAC, have it carefully scrutinized, send it in and hope for the best

+1

Re: misconduct at the dec lsat! HELPPP

Posted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 11:49 am
by A → B ⊨ ¬B → ¬A
TripTrip wrote:
dingbat wrote:The better course of action is to never put yourself in a position where you could be accused of cheating. You fucked up. It happens.
Draft a letter to LSAC, have it carefully scrutinized, send it in and hope for the best

+1

+1 and good news: you can come to TLS for the scrutiny.

Re: misconduct at the dec lsat! HELPPP

Posted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 11:54 am
by SEngland
What is funny is numerous people cheat on the LSAT during every administration. Starting test early, sharing answers with friends at the break, going back to old sections, etc.


This is real life people, shit happens and people get by with it. Accept it and know that some brah who went back to on LR section took your seat at Duke because he rolled the dice.

Re: misconduct at the dec lsat! HELPPP

Posted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 12:00 pm
by A → B ⊨ ¬B → ¬A
SEngland wrote:What is funny is numerous people cheat on the LSAT during every administration. Starting test early, sharing answers with friends at the break, going back to old sections, etc.


This is real life people, shit happens and people get by with it. Accept it and know that some brah who went back to on LR section took your seat at Duke because he rolled the dice.

The lesson I've learned today is that if you pick up your pencil when you aren't allowed, at least try to get a few points and get a seat at Duke.

Re: misconduct at the dec lsat! HELPPP

Posted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 2:47 pm
by tepper
You know what, I think it's just in our country's tradition now that we bitch about someone or something when we ourselves fucked up. I really don't see the point of this topic anymore, no one here has an authoritative answer, and in fact no one here can really help the OP, you can't go back in time and change what happened. Just wait it out and see. Also, prepare for retake, because most likely they'll just cancel your score.

Re: misconduct at the dec lsat! HELPPP

Posted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 3:01 pm
by TheThriller
my bolded statement makes me sound like I am patronizing everyone

Re: misconduct at the dec lsat! HELPPP

Posted: Sun Dec 16, 2012 2:12 pm
by tepper
TheThriller wrote:my bolded statement makes me sound like I am patronizing everyone


yes

Re: misconduct at the dec lsat! HELPPP

Posted: Sun Dec 16, 2012 2:21 pm
by A → B ⊨ ¬B → ¬A
tepper wrote:
TheThriller wrote:my bolded statement makes me sound like I am patronizing everyone


yes

Dec 2 - Dec 16: the two-week dramatic pause.

Re: misconduct at the dec lsat! HELPPP

Posted: Sun Dec 16, 2012 2:23 pm
by tepper
now, let this thread sink.....

Re: misconduct at the dec lsat! HELPPP

Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 6:50 pm
by eap12123
Got the letter from LSAC today, the violation was waived and my scores will be sent out with everyone elses! So happy! Thanks to everyone for their kind words and advice!!

Re: misconduct at the dec lsat! HELPPP

Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 8:07 pm
by A → B ⊨ ¬B → ¬A
eap12123 wrote:Got the letter from LSAC today, the violation was waived and my scores will be sent out with everyone elses! So happy! Thanks to everyone for their kind words and advice!!

Glad it worked out.

Re: misconduct at the dec lsat! HELPPP

Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 11:02 pm
by TERS
I'm happy for you.

An examination of the situation would've been the reasonable thing for the proctor to do: Why does this person have a pencil in their hand? Is their booklet open? Are they trying to cheat? etc, rather than just seeing you with pencil in hand and automatically assuming you're trying to cheat.

In saying that, there is absolutely no ambiguity in a declaration like, "Your time is up; please put your pencils down and close your test booklets." In the future, follow instructions.