misconduct at the dec lsat! HELPPP

eap12123
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misconduct at the dec lsat! HELPPP

Postby eap12123 » Sat Dec 01, 2012 6:20 pm

I took the test today and thought it was pretty straight forward, however, I (along with 4 other people in my room!) got written up for a misconduct violation, for apparently “filling in answers after time was called”. I did no such thing, my test booklet was closed, which the proctor admitted, and she didn’t see me write anything, because i DIDN’T! What I am guilty of is holding my pencil. I put my pencil down initially after she called time on section 5, and closed my test booklet. As the supervisor mentioned that the second proctor was going to come around and collect the test, I mindlessly (after 5 grueling test hours) picked up my pencil. At no time was it ANYWHERE near my test paper. The proctor saw my pencil (and my closed booklet) and told me to put it down or i would be written up. I immediately complied and apologized! I hadn’t even realized it was in my hand. My test was collected and i thought the whole thing was over. I finished the writing sample and as i was getting ready to leave the room, she began passing out all of these yellow slips! When i spoke to her I asked if she could at least write on the slip that she didnt see me writing and that my test book was closed, but she said that once a slip was written she wouldn’t change it!!

I’m so upset and wrote LSAC a long email detailing the situation. This was the last time I could take the test and still apply in this cycle. I was wondering if you had ever heard of any similar situations and what normally happens in cases like this. Any info you can provide would help because I am freaking out

SEngland
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Re: misconduct at the dec lsat! HELPPP

Postby SEngland » Sat Dec 01, 2012 6:22 pm

damn, sounds like you got trolled.

eap12123
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Re: misconduct at the dec lsat! HELPPP

Postby eap12123 » Sat Dec 01, 2012 6:38 pm

pretty much. i'm miserable.

SEngland
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Re: misconduct at the dec lsat! HELPPP

Postby SEngland » Sat Dec 01, 2012 6:43 pm

Contact LSAC, explain your side. I think you will be fine. They know the proctors are typically bums off the streets.

Cellar-door
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Re: misconduct at the dec lsat! HELPPP

Postby Cellar-door » Sat Dec 01, 2012 6:46 pm

I'd contact LSAC, hopefully they will be ok with it. Though you did technically not follow the proctor's instructions since pencils down is part of the instructions and in the proctor script I believe.

Edit- to clarify I hope you get it changed, but in a case like this don't be surprised if they tell you they can't since the reason they ask for pencils down is to avoid any ambiguity as to whether you were working after time was called.
Last edited by Cellar-door on Sat Dec 01, 2012 6:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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dingbat
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Re: misconduct at the dec lsat! HELPPP

Postby dingbat » Sat Dec 01, 2012 6:53 pm

You're an idiot. Good luck trying to get them to change it.

eap12123
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Re: misconduct at the dec lsat! HELPPP

Postby eap12123 » Sat Dec 01, 2012 7:00 pm

Thanks for the advice, already contacted them, hope it turns out okay. And yeah I def did screw up, but I did put my pencil down when she initially said to. I picked it up again mindlessly and didn't have it anywhere near the answer sheet. I'm just nervous because she seems so nasty and power hungry im not sure what she'll say. I'm all for the proctors doing their jobs, but she wrote up 4 others in my room without telling them until we were all ready to leave, and then refused to discuss it with us after the test.

"Dingbat" your user name is appropriate. Fellow test takers should be aware of the stress we're all under and refrain from insulting just for the sake of it.

SEngland
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Re: misconduct at the dec lsat! HELPPP

Postby SEngland » Sat Dec 01, 2012 7:04 pm

eap12123 wrote:Thanks for the advice, already contacted them, hope it turns out okay. And yeah I def did screw up, but I did put my pencil down when she initially said to. I picked it up again mindlessly and didn't have it anywhere near the answer sheet. I'm just nervous because she seems so nasty and power hungry im not sure what she'll say. I'm all for the proctors doing their jobs, but she wrote up 4 others in my room without telling them until we were all ready to leave, and then refused to discuss it with us after the test.

"Dingbat" your user name is appropriate. Fellow test takers should be aware of the stress we're all under and refrain from insulting just for the sake of it.


+1

Uncalled for Dingbat

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Br3v
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Re: misconduct at the dec lsat! HELPPP

Postby Br3v » Sat Dec 01, 2012 7:14 pm

Well I imagine LSAC will of course always side with the proctor, but I believe they investigate all misconduct things so if your proctor truthfully admits what you claim to be the truth, then I don't think LSAC will punish you because I don't think "holding pencil" is a misconduct write up but clearly "bubbling after time" is.

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CyanIdes Of March
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Re: misconduct at the dec lsat! HELPPP

Postby CyanIdes Of March » Sat Dec 01, 2012 7:15 pm

I could see how this could happen, sounds like you just got some really anal proctors. Some people really get off on asserting the little power they've been granted.

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byronmullens
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Re: misconduct at the dec lsat! HELPPP

Postby byronmullens » Sat Dec 01, 2012 7:33 pm

I've seen ads for proctors on craigslist, so it kinda makes you wonder about the institutional control.

eap12123
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Re: misconduct at the dec lsat! HELPPP

Postby eap12123 » Sat Dec 01, 2012 7:38 pm

This woman was out for blood so i'm not really sure what she'll say. Another girl who got written up for a similarly ridiculous reason burst into tears and the woman laughed and said "it's just a test"

That's really easy to say when you're just standing at the front of the room and haven't been studying for months or mapping out your entire law school career. I'm hoping my email was detailed enough or that they at least manually grade my exam and see all the work I did on every question, at least that might show that I had no reason to just mindlessly bubble in. :(

SEngland
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Re: misconduct at the dec lsat! HELPPP

Postby SEngland » Sat Dec 01, 2012 7:49 pm

eap12123 wrote:This woman was out for blood so i'm not really sure what she'll say. Another girl who got written up for a similarly ridiculous reason burst into tears and the woman laughed and said "it's just a test"

That's really easy to say when you're just standing at the front of the room and haven't been studying for months or mapping out your entire law school career. I'm hoping my email was detailed enough or that they at least manually grade my exam and see all the work I did on every question, at least that might show that I had no reason to just mindlessly bubble in. :(


sounds like that lady needs to get laid by a BDB.

tepper
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Re: misconduct at the dec lsat! HELPPP

Postby tepper » Sat Dec 01, 2012 7:50 pm

Rules are rules, the fact was that you did have the pencil in your hand, and it was reasonable for the proctor to suspect that you wrote with it. It doesn't matter that you didn't, suspicion alone will suffice.

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dingbat
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Re: misconduct at the dec lsat! HELPPP

Postby dingbat » Sat Dec 01, 2012 8:04 pm

eap12123 wrote:This woman was out for blood so i'm not really sure what she'll say. Another girl who got written up for a similarly ridiculous reason burst into tears and the woman laughed and said "it's just a test"

That's really easy to say when you're just standing at the front of the room and haven't been studying for months or mapping out your entire law school career. I'm hoping my email was detailed enough or that they at least manually grade my exam and see all the work I did on every question, at least that might show that I had no reason to just mindlessly bubble in. :(

You can't have it both ways. Either it's just a test and they shouldn't take it seriously. Or it's really important and they should be very strict about it.

That being said:
1) it's just a test.
2) exams are not graded manually
3) even if they saw you did a lot of work, that doesn't mean you finished on time, nor is is persuasive that you did not try to cram in another answer after the allotted time ended.

Suck it up, buttercup

jared6180
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Re: misconduct at the dec lsat! HELPPP

Postby jared6180 » Sat Dec 01, 2012 8:06 pm

tepper wrote:Rules are rules, the fact was that you did have the pencil in your hand, and it was reasonable for the proctor to suspect that you wrote with it. It doesn't matter that you didn't, suspicion alone will suffice.


And people who think this way should not be an attorney if they are unable to see the test takers side on this one. Mitigating circumstances should always be considered when handing out a punishment. Your logic would have someone guilty of involuntary manslaughter on death row, so I guess maybe you could be a prosecutor on a TV drama at best!

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dingbat
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Re: misconduct at the dec lsat! HELPPP

Postby dingbat » Sat Dec 01, 2012 8:08 pm

jared6180 wrote:
tepper wrote:Rules are rules, the fact was that you did have the pencil in your hand, and it was reasonable for the proctor to suspect that you wrote with it. It doesn't matter that you didn't, suspicion alone will suffice.


And people who think this way should not be an attorney if they are unable to see the test takers side on this one. Mitigating circumstances should always be considered when handing out a punishment. Your logic would have someone guilty of involuntary manslaughter on death row, so I guess maybe you could be a prosecutor on a TV drama at best!

Strict liability. The rule says you can't hold your pencil - so don't hold your pencil.
Mitigating circumstances apply to punishment, not to whether or not an infraction has occurred.
I'm not sure how punishment can be mitigated here

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hichvichwoh
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Re: misconduct at the dec lsat! HELPPP

Postby hichvichwoh » Sat Dec 01, 2012 8:11 pm

jared6180 wrote:
tepper wrote:Rules are rules, the fact was that you did have the pencil in your hand, and it was reasonable for the proctor to suspect that you wrote with it. It doesn't matter that you didn't, suspicion alone will suffice.


And people who think this way should not be an attorney if they are unable to see the test takers side on this one. Mitigating circumstances should always be considered when handing out a punishment. Your logic would have someone guilty of involuntary manslaughter on death row, so I guess maybe you could be a prosecutor on a TV drama at best!


Sorry, but tepper's just trying to point out what the situation looks like objectively, and if you go to law school you'll find that ONLY people who think this way get to be attorneys.

uvabro
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Re: misconduct at the dec lsat! HELPPP

Postby uvabro » Sat Dec 01, 2012 8:14 pm

I don't think OP's an idiot. Picking up a pencil is a common reaction to stress, particularly for women (being totally serious). My presumption is OP is a girl. If u weren't near the test itself, I'd absolutely contact LSAC. I'd also work on getting other students to be witnesses. I'd be cool, calm and respectful. They're not out to get you.

eap12123
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Re: misconduct at the dec lsat! HELPPP

Postby eap12123 » Sat Dec 01, 2012 8:17 pm

dingbat wrote:
jared6180 wrote:
tepper wrote:Rules are rules, the fact was that you did have the pencil in your hand, and it was reasonable for the proctor to suspect that you wrote with it. It doesn't matter that you didn't, suspicion alone will suffice.


And people who think this way should not be an attorney if they are unable to see the test takers side on this one. Mitigating circumstances should always be considered when handing out a punishment. Your logic would have someone guilty of involuntary manslaughter on death row, so I guess maybe you could be a prosecutor on a TV drama at best!

Strict liability. The rule says you can't hold your pencil - so don't hold your pencil.
Mitigating circumstances apply to punishment, not to whether or not an infraction has occurred.
I'm not sure how punishment can be mitigated here



If you want to get technical, the rule doesn't say you can't hold your pencil, it says you can't finish working after time is called. When she told me to put my pencil down I put it down. It wasn't until later when I mistakenly picked it up again. Since she was next to me and could clearly see I didn't write anything and I immediately apologized once she said something about it, I didn't think the description she wrote was fair at all. I absolutely screwed up, but I definitely wasn't filling in answers after time was called.

eap12123
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Re: misconduct at the dec lsat! HELPPP

Postby eap12123 » Sat Dec 01, 2012 8:20 pm

uvabro wrote:I don't think OP's an idiot. Picking up a pencil is a common reaction to stress, particularly for women (being totally serious). My presumption is OP is a girl. If u weren't near the test itself, I'd absolutely contact LSAC. I'd also work on getting other students to be witnesses. I'd be cool, calm and respectful. They're not out to get you.



Haha I'm absolutely a girl, and it was a typical mindless fidget. It was almost like I did it expecting her to call the start of the next MC section, forgetting it was over. I sent them an email explaining the whole thing and that I really understood the proctor was trying to do her job but that I didn't think her description was very fair. I think it might also help that so many of us got violations. I know that the other three people are definitely appealing also. We'll see what happens...

uvabro
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Re: misconduct at the dec lsat! HELPPP

Postby uvabro » Sat Dec 01, 2012 8:34 pm

tepper wrote:Rules are rules, the fact was that you did have the pencil in your hand, and it was reasonable for the proctor to suspect that you wrote with it. It doesn't matter that you didn't, suspicion alone will suffice.

This isn't Nazi germany. Academic violations are like the criminal law of academia. There's no strict liability unless it's just a fine. Rules are rules doesn't apply in American law. Clearly, you're just a dork.

Tuler09
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Re: misconduct at the dec lsat! HELPPP

Postby Tuler09 » Sat Dec 01, 2012 8:39 pm

eap, fwiw on the Oct LSAT I made a baddd misbubbling mistake (reversed two entire games on the answer sheet). When I got my score I, like you, freaked out and came to tls for advice. Many people here as well as my friends and family were very pessimistic (which at the time seemed very realistic) and told me no way would LSAC change my score. After I wrote them a detailed letter explaining the situation, they did. Like uvabro said, LSAC is NOT out to get you. I can't say for certain what will happen in your case but I would try as much as you can not to freak out. Especially considering four other people in your room got written up, I think LSAC is likely to find that the proctor was perhaps being a little too strict.

I know it absolutely sucks but try not to get too down about it.

tepper
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Re: misconduct at the dec lsat! HELPPP

Postby tepper » Sat Dec 01, 2012 9:58 pm

uvabro wrote:
tepper wrote:Rules are rules, the fact was that you did have the pencil in your hand, and it was reasonable for the proctor to suspect that you wrote with it. It doesn't matter that you didn't, suspicion alone will suffice.

This isn't Nazi germany. Academic violations are like the criminal law of academia. There's no strict liability unless it's just a fine. Rules are rules doesn't apply in American law. Clearly, you're just a dork.


I think some of the people here have a tendency to make every argument into a personal attack, and that only reflects the weakness of your position. I was pointing out the obvious to the OP, the proctor did what she did according to LSAC's regulations, yes she might have been a jackass, but she didn't violate any rules, and thus the OP has pretty much no standing for contention.

OP, just retake, it's not the end of the world. I'm not sure what will be the consequence of your writeup, but from what I've heard before, LSAC will simply cancel your score, and that's the end of that.



PS: when I took the LSAT in 2010, one of my study buddies had the same infraction like yours, he didn't put down his pencil after time was called (right after section 3), he held his pencil for probably 5 more seconds, but he wasn't writing anything. He received a slip and the proctor warned him. None of us thought it was a big deal, since he wasn't removed from the room or anything like that, he was allowed to finish the test. But when scores came out, his was canceled by LSAC, due to the infraction.
Last edited by tepper on Sat Dec 01, 2012 10:13 pm, edited 3 times in total.

eap12123
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Re: misconduct at the dec lsat! HELPPP

Postby eap12123 » Sat Dec 01, 2012 9:58 pm

Tuler09 wrote:eap, fwiw on the Oct LSAT I made a baddd misbubbling mistake (reversed two entire games on the answer sheet). When I got my score I, like you, freaked out and came to tls for advice. Many people here as well as my friends and family were very pessimistic (which at the time seemed very realistic) and told me no way would LSAC change my score. After I wrote them a detailed letter explaining the situation, they did. Like uvabro said, LSAC is NOT out to get you. I can't say for certain what will happen in your case but I would try as much as you can not to freak out. Especially considering four other people in your room got written up, I think LSAC is likely to find that the proctor was perhaps being a little too strict.

I know it absolutely sucks but try not to get too down about it.



Thanks for the positivity, definitely makes me feel slightly better :)




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