JUNE 2013 Study Group / Study Partner Thread

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crazyrobin
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Re: JUNE 2013 Study Group / Study Partner Thread

Postby crazyrobin » Tue Mar 12, 2013 11:44 pm

It's a in/out game.
Just as DD said, link the first and fourth rule together, you have NP(new pop)---->S---->R, then write down contrapositive whenever you feel you have to.

The last rule is tricky, the best way to diagram is just R----->S

Then link the second and third rule together, you'll have a clean chain about in/out relationship.

Let me know if you have any specific questions.

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kmc
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Re: JUNE 2013 Study Group / Study Partner Thread

Postby kmc » Wed Mar 13, 2013 12:43 am

lsatkid007 wrote:
How about the new and used CDs. I think it's pt 31 game 2.


i'm currently hating on Q10. hating hard. i'm sure once i look at it in the morning it will make all the sense in the world, but for now, not so much.

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Re: JUNE 2013 Study Group / Study Partner Thread

Postby Daily_Double » Wed Mar 13, 2013 12:47 am

Here's my diagram, I'll walk you through it really quickly. First I listed the rules, then I connected them, but what's important is that I connected them in a way to make the maximum number of connections, so the relationships below the rules are not the same as in the rules themselves, there's a couple of slight tweaks. The first logic chain is formatted the same as the rules. But the contrapositive is a little funky. So technically:

if either R ---> ~S and ~S,

But, if ~S or ~S ---> ~New P

So I used ~S and ~S to capture the necessary condition of the presence of R, and juggled the original relationship mentally. The contrapositive is still valid, it just doesn't capture each relationship as well as the rules.

Now, moving on.

Image

To begin with, there's not a lot of inferences up front, so you should expect a bunch of conditional questions. Before we begin, keep in mind that O is the only real variable here. So moving into the questions which I actually did a little work, and/or thought, during the questions:

#8, Conditional, If ~New S

So if ~New Soul (or ~Used Soul, or both) ---> ~New Pop

Since Used Pop is already on sale, and this is only the second question, I looked to see if my brief inference would yield the credited response. Hey look, there's E, that's it. Trigger pulled, time for #9

#9, Conditional, if J and J, minimum of New CDs on Sale

Whenever I have a minimum question, I start at the smallest possible number, one in this case, and see if it would work:

So if J and J ---> ~R and ~R

But we want the minimum, so let's knock off New P, because that would lead to both S and S:

If New Pop ---> S and S

So now we have New J, ~(New P, New S, New R, and let's throw New O in there), look that works, so the answer is one

#10, Absolute, Must be False

We know two things for sure, I expect the credited response to hit on these:

If R ---> ~S and ~S, if S or S ---> ~R and ~R

If ~J and ~J ---> S and S, if ~S and ~S ---> J or J

Boom, the answer hits on the second relationship

#11, Conditional, ~J and ~J

If both Js are out, then New P is in, since New P is in, both S and S are in, since both S and S are in both R and R must be out. This eliminates the wrong answers, which is what you should've done, but whenever you have a must be true, except question, with an unrelated variable, the credited answer will likely contain that random variable.

#12, Conditional, Must be False, New Soul is the only NEW one on sale

So if New S is the only one, then New (J, O, P, and R) are not on sale. But if both Js are out, then New P is in, and if new P is in, then both S and S are in. But we only have New S in, therefore, we must have one J in, since it can't be new, it must be used.

#13, Conditional, four of five are the only ones on sale

Now, if four used ones, of the original five, are the only ones on sale, then all of the new ones, New (J, O, P, R, and S) are not on sale. We know used P is in, we know O must be in, because 4/5, there's nothing on O, the others are restricted so O must be in, now we're down to R, S, and J. Let's look a little closer:

You can immediately eliminate answer choices D and E, via my diagram and the fact that only one is out. Now let's look at answer choice A: If Used J is not on sale, then both J and J would be out, triggering New P to be in, both S and S to be in, and both R and R to be out. Well, that would be two out, that's not right. Let's look at answer choices B: We know used O must be on sale, so this isn't it. Now C: so if both R and R are out, then we can still have J, and look we can still have S, this is it.

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99.9luft
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Re: JUNE 2013 Study Group / Study Partner Thread

Postby 99.9luft » Wed Mar 13, 2013 12:48 am

PSA that might be relevant to this thread's interests:

99.9luft wrote:too lazy to create a new topic but earlier today the LSAC posted the # of Feb '13 exam takers:

# of takers/ % change from last year
19,286/-12.9%

THIS IS THE LOWEST FEB. # EVER (well, since 1987).

Overall, the total # of takers was 112,515 or -13.4% decrease from last year.

Source: http://www.lsac.org/lsacresources/data/ ... stered.asp

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Re: JUNE 2013 Study Group / Study Partner Thread

Postby Daily_Double » Wed Mar 13, 2013 1:01 am

Solid post, thanks, I'm interested in June's numbers.

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John_rizzy_rawls
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Re: JUNE 2013 Study Group / Study Partner Thread

Postby John_rizzy_rawls » Wed Mar 13, 2013 1:02 am

Daily_Double wrote:Solid post, thanks, I'm interested in June's numbers.


June is always high but it looks like the numbers are going to keep declining.

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kmc
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Re: JUNE 2013 Study Group / Study Partner Thread

Postby kmc » Wed Mar 13, 2013 1:02 am

i was just being dense. i guess the second time i added the word "if" to the first condition. uh... dense.

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Re: JUNE 2013 Study Group / Study Partner Thread

Postby Daily_Double » Wed Mar 13, 2013 1:08 am

kmc wrote:i was just being dense. i guess the second time i added the word "if" to the first condition. uh... dense.


I do have a quick note, the different levels of this game make it funky. But they don't really matter, by they, I mean new v. used (except in the case of Used P and New O), still they don't matter that much. Which is why I just represented the elements in twos and basically cast the new v. used nonsense aside, just think of it as either one or both or none. It makes the game easier.

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kmc
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Re: JUNE 2013 Study Group / Study Partner Thread

Postby kmc » Wed Mar 13, 2013 1:24 am

Daily_Double wrote:
kmc wrote:i was just being dense. i guess the second time i added the word "if" to the first condition. uh... dense.


I do have a quick note, the different levels of this game make it funky. But they don't really matter, by they, I mean new v. used (except in the case of Used P and New O), still they don't matter that much. Which is why I just represented the elements in twos and basically cast the new v. used nonsense aside, just think of it as either one or both or none. It makes the game easier.


yup. i got the question right, but circled it. so, when i come back to look at circled questions (before checking answers), i usually try to prove my answer AND disprove the others. when i was checking through, my brain decided to be silly and add an "if," so i couldn't prove the correct answer and it was driving me nuts. took *forever* to see what the issue was.

and i don't know if that's a valid review method, but LG has never been a problem section for me, so i don't have to do it very often.

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Re: JUNE 2013 Study Group / Study Partner Thread

Postby Daily_Double » Wed Mar 13, 2013 1:29 am

kmc wrote:
Daily_Double wrote:
kmc wrote:i was just being dense. i guess the second time i added the word "if" to the first condition. uh... dense.


I do have a quick note, the different levels of this game make it funky. But they don't really matter, by they, I mean new v. used (except in the case of Used P and New O), still they don't matter that much. Which is why I just represented the elements in twos and basically cast the new v. used nonsense aside, just think of it as either one or both or none. It makes the game easier.


yup. i got the question right, but circled it. so, when i come back to look at circled questions (before checking answers), i usually try to prove my answer AND disprove the others. when i was checking through, my brain decided to be silly and add an "if," so i couldn't prove the correct answer and it was driving me nuts. took *forever* to see what the issue was.

and i don't know if that's a valid review method, but LG has never been a problem section for me, so i don't have to do it very often.


Sounds like a great method. Keep up the hard work.

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Re: JUNE 2013 Study Group / Study Partner Thread

Postby TurnUpCollardGreens » Wed Mar 13, 2013 2:42 am

When do you guys plan to start taking the 5 section practice tests? And when is the break, after 3?

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CardozoLaw09
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Re: JUNE 2013 Study Group / Study Partner Thread

Postby CardozoLaw09 » Wed Mar 13, 2013 12:10 pm

LR questions that pertain to geology are the worst.

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objection_your_honor
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Re: JUNE 2013 Study Group / Study Partner Thread

Postby objection_your_honor » Wed Mar 13, 2013 12:49 pm

TurnUpCollardGreens wrote:When do you guys plan to start taking the 5 section practice tests? And when is the break, after 3?


Many have been already.

And the official LSAT will be S1, S2, S3, BREAK, S4, S5.

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Re: JUNE 2013 Study Group / Study Partner Thread

Postby rebexness » Wed Mar 13, 2013 12:56 pm

objection_your_honor wrote:
TurnUpCollardGreens wrote:When do you guys plan to start taking the 5 section practice tests? And when is the break, after 3?


Many have been already.

And the official LSAT will be S1, S2, S3, BREAK, S4, S5.


Don't forget the EVER IMPORTANT writing section (sect 6).

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052220151
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Re: JUNE 2013 Study Group / Study Partner Thread

Postby 052220151 » Wed Mar 13, 2013 1:12 pm

My two cents about new/used CDs:

I just did it and I took 6:14 to finish. I think you guys are stressing it too much. All of the questions except for ten are situational. Plug and chug a hypo for all of the Qs. On ten, you can eliminate three of the answers quickly just by knowing used opera is a free agent. Draw a hypo to get the correct answer. There is no grouping to this game, it is pure in and out.

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Re: JUNE 2013 Study Group / Study Partner Thread

Postby Daily_Double » Wed Mar 13, 2013 1:35 pm

Just as a reminder, the Manhattan session is in about 25 minutes.

bdeans91
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Re: JUNE 2013 Study Group / Study Partner Thread

Postby bdeans91 » Wed Mar 13, 2013 1:50 pm

deputydog wrote:My two cents about new/used CDs:

I just did it and I took 6:14 to finish. I think you guys are stressing it too much. All of the questions except for ten are situational. Plug and chug a hypo for all of the Qs. On ten, you can eliminate three of the answers quickly just by knowing used opera is a free agent. Draw a hypo to get the correct answer. There is no grouping to this game, it is pure in and out.


I read that it was considered one of the hardest games because of timing.

On my first and only go at the game, I got -0 in 13m00. It is a very easy game just very time consuming.

http://blog.powerscore.com/lsat/bid/153 ... f-All-Time (#7)

http://lsatblog.blogspot.ca/2009/01/har ... -hard.html (#5)

By the way, what is In and Out? The only categorizations of games I have done so far are Grouping (DFB, DFU, DM, PD, UD), Advanced and Basic Linear (UB and B), and I know there is Pattern, Mapping, Pure Sequencing, and G/L Combination.

What makes a game In-Out? Or Matching? Or Splitting? I've never read these distinctions before... what classification system are they?

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Re: JUNE 2013 Study Group / Study Partner Thread

Postby Daily_Double » Wed Mar 13, 2013 1:55 pm

bdeans91 wrote:What makes a game In-Out? Or Matching? Or Splitting? I've never read these distinctions before... what classification system are they?


When you have two different bases that receive the variables, usually it's in one thing (base 1), and base 2 is not in that thing. For example, in the forrest and out of the forrest. Also a common in out game is group one or group two. In-Outs are full of conditional logic, but they're not too bad once you get used to them.

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Re: JUNE 2013 Study Group / Study Partner Thread

Postby Daily_Double » Wed Mar 13, 2013 1:55 pm

Also, the Manhattan session is beginning.

bdeans91
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Re: JUNE 2013 Study Group / Study Partner Thread

Postby bdeans91 » Wed Mar 13, 2013 1:57 pm

Daily_Double wrote:
bdeans91 wrote:What makes a game In-Out? Or Matching? Or Splitting? I've never read these distinctions before... what classification system are they?


When you have two different bases that receive the variables, usually it's in one thing (base 1), and base 2 is not in that thing. For example, in the forrest and out of the forrest. Also a common in out game is group one or group two. In-Outs are full of conditional logic, but they're not too bad once you get used to them.


Oh I think PS calls these a two domain game?

So if you have variables P and N and groups 1 and 2 then

P1 --> N2 is the same thing as N1 --> P2

Is this what in-n-out games feature?

bdeans91
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Re: JUNE 2013 Study Group / Study Partner Thread

Postby bdeans91 » Wed Mar 13, 2013 2:00 pm

Daily_Double wrote:
bdeans91 wrote:What makes a game In-Out? Or Matching? Or Splitting? I've never read these distinctions before... what classification system are they?


When you have two different bases that receive the variables, usually it's in one thing (base 1), and base 2 is not in that thing. For example, in the forrest and out of the forrest. Also a common in out game is group one or group two. In-Outs are full of conditional logic, but they're not too bad once you get used to them.


Oh I think PS calls these a two domain game?

So if you have variables P and N and groups 1 and 2 then

P1 --> N2 is the same thing as N1 --> P2

Is this what in-n-out games feature?

I would really like to know what text you guys get these distinctions of grouping games from, because they probably help a lot with structuring one's initial diagram.

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052220151
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Re: JUNE 2013 Study Group / Study Partner Thread

Postby 052220151 » Wed Mar 13, 2013 2:07 pm

bdeans91 wrote:
Daily_Double wrote:
bdeans91 wrote:What makes a game In-Out? Or Matching? Or Splitting? I've never read these distinctions before... what classification system are they?


When you have two different bases that receive the variables, usually it's in one thing (base 1), and base 2 is not in that thing. For example, in the forrest and out of the forrest. Also a common in out game is group one or group two. In-Outs are full of conditional logic, but they're not too bad once you get used to them.


Oh I think PS calls these a two domain game?

So if you have variables P and N and groups 1 and 2 then

P1 --> N2 is the same thing as N1 --> P2

Is this what in-n-out games feature?

I would really like to know what text you guys get these distinctions of grouping games from, because they probably help a lot with structuring one's initial diagram.


I don't think diagramming is helpful for in and out games. Just familiarize your self with the rules, find any rules you can link together and then plug and chug.

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Re: JUNE 2013 Study Group / Study Partner Thread

Postby rebexness » Wed Mar 13, 2013 2:35 pm

Innundated with old dumbs calling me.

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052220151
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Re: JUNE 2013 Study Group / Study Partner Thread

Postby 052220151 » Wed Mar 13, 2013 2:45 pm

rebexness wrote:Innundated with old dumbs calling me.


I feel your pain.

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Re: JUNE 2013 Study Group / Study Partner Thread

Postby Daily_Double » Wed Mar 13, 2013 3:25 pm

That feeling you get when you know you're getting better. Having it.




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