LGB/LRB vs. MLSAT

theycallmefoes
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LGB/LRB vs. MLSAT

Postby theycallmefoes » Sun Nov 11, 2012 10:24 pm

I've solely been using the LGB and LRB [Powerscore], and I think they are quite brilliant. That being said, quite a few people on TLS have recommended the MLSAT [Manhattan] books, and I've seen a few claims that they are superior to the Powerscore books. That inspired me to buy the MLSAT e-books for LR and LG, but I'm not sure how much supplemental help they will be. I read the first bit of their LR book and, so far, am not impressed.

In the interest of budgeting my time as December approaches, I was hoping that those of you who have used both sets of books and/or those of you who have really strong favorable opinions of MLSAT could help me decide how to focus my prep. Rather:

Where do the MLSAT books shine?
What concepts do they explain particularly well?
What strategies are especially helpful?
Given the limited amount of time I have, what are the most important chapters for me to read?


For those of you who have used both sets of books:

Where/in what ways are the MLSAT books superior to the Powerscore books?
Are there any areas where MLSAT provides a more comprehensive explanation of a concept, technique, etc.?
For LR, are there certain question types where MLSAT's explanations, strategies, etc. go above and beyond what is presented in the LRB?
For LG, are there any diagramming techniques, etc. in MLSAT that are superior to those in the LGB?


[/redundant questions are redundant]
Last edited by theycallmefoes on Mon Nov 12, 2012 11:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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NoodleyOne
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Re: LGB/LRB vs. MLSAT

Postby NoodleyOne » Sun Nov 11, 2012 10:28 pm

This has been discussed ad nauseum, but I'll give it a go.

For LR, MLR is just plain and simple the best guide out there. The Powerscore strategy of relating the answers to the stim is... unintuitive, and frankly doesn't make much sense. MLR's focus on the argument core is really intuitive, and the way it groups them just makes sense. Also, they absolutely DESTROYED Necessary Assumption/Sufficient Assumption.

theycallmefoes
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Re: LGB/LRB vs. MLSAT

Postby theycallmefoes » Sun Nov 11, 2012 10:57 pm

NoodleyOne wrote:This has been discussed ad nauseum, but I'll give it a go.

Sorry about that! Honestly, I don't want to clutter up the discussion forum, so if this has already been covered, I can delete this thread (...if that's possible. I'm pretty new here, so I don't actually know whether or not I can delete a thread once someone has already commented on it). While I've seen some discussion of the two, I hadn't really seen much of an explanation as to *how* they were actually different/in *what ways* one was superior to the other. Of course, it's completely possible that I missed it, in which case I am sorry for rehashing an old topic. Regardless, I really appreciate that you've taken the time to reply!

For LR, MLR is just plain and simple the best guide out there. The Powerscore strategy of relating the answers to the stim is... unintuitive, and frankly doesn't make much sense.

Which part do you find unintuitive? The whole question family organization where "the-information-in-the-stimulus-is/isn't-suspect" thing with the diagrams and the arrows pointing towards the boxes? Because I found all of that to be not just unintuitive but also completely unnecessary. Aside from that, though, I thought the rest of the guide was pretty thorough.

Also, they absolutely DESTROYED Necessary Assumption/Sufficient Assumption.

See, this is the type of information I was hoping for! Again, sorry if this has been covered elsewhere, but thanks for your reply - I'll definitely be reading that part of the book.

If I've done the LRB several times, do you think I could still benefit from the MLSAT book? I'm willing to spend the time going through it if it will help me increase my score. On the other hand, I know from your guide (which is a really great resource, by the way) that you really advocate drilling for the LR section. In your opinion, would I be better of just focusing on the Cambridge LR by question-type bundle?

Thanks again!

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gaud
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Re: LGB/LRB vs. MLSAT

Postby gaud » Sun Nov 11, 2012 11:00 pm

They're both great but Manhattan has the edge.

theycallmefoes
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Re: LGB/LRB vs. MLSAT

Postby theycallmefoes » Sun Nov 11, 2012 11:10 pm

gaud wrote:They're both great but Manhattan has the edge.


I guess what I'm wondering is this: Let's say the LSAT is tomorrow. I'm already done with the Powerscore guides. With only a few hours left to prep, what parts of the MLSAT guides do I absolutely have to read (e.g., NoodleyOne said necessary & sufficient assumptions)?

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gaud
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Re: LGB/LRB vs. MLSAT

Postby gaud » Sun Nov 11, 2012 11:11 pm

theycallmefoes wrote:
gaud wrote:They're both great but Manhattan has the edge.


I guess what I'm wondering is this: Let's say the LSAT is tomorrow. I'm already done with the Powerscore guides. With only a few hours left to prep, what parts of the MLSAT guides do I absolutely have to read (e.g., NoodleyOne said necessary & sufficient assumptions)?


Go with NoodleyOne's recommendations. It's been so long since I've gone through either that I can only speak to the entirety of each guide. NoodleyOne did extremely well on the LSAT, he knows his stuff.

theycallmefoes
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Re: LGB/LRB vs. MLSAT

Postby theycallmefoes » Sun Nov 11, 2012 11:33 pm

gaud wrote:NoodleyOne did extremely well on the LSAT, he knows his stuff.

Oh, I know. I've only been hanging around on TLS for a couple of weeks now, but I've already come to the realization that NoodleyOne = legendary. :D
Last edited by theycallmefoes on Mon Nov 12, 2012 11:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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NoodleyOne
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Re: LGB/LRB vs. MLSAT

Postby NoodleyOne » Sun Nov 11, 2012 11:55 pm

Only thing legendary about me is my balls for making that thread before I got my score back. Plenty of other high scorers on here.

To answer the question, yes, MLR is VERY useful on top of PSB. I started with the LRB and then moved to MLR, and I saw instant benefits. As far as LG, I haven't personally used the MLG because I was getting consistent -0s without any book studying. I know I'm definitely the minority there. I got better in LG after I went through PSB, but I think their focus on defining each game is long-winded and unnecessary. From what I gather, the MLG 3rd edition is just as good for most game types, and I'm going to guess they fill it with less fluff. Still, you want to check with someone that used it.

Actually, that gets to my problem with Powerscore in general. I think it is a good tool, for the most part. However, I think it focuses so much on unnecessary detail that I think it can confuse the average test taker. Manhattan instead focuses on the core of argument, and taking a deep breath and focusing on the core can settle you down, instead of confusing you. It's intuitive and effective.

CR2012
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Re: LGB/LRB vs. MLSAT

Postby CR2012 » Mon Nov 12, 2012 11:17 am

The first 6 chapters of MLSAT LR book opened my eyes. If you follow their method religiously, and you don't cut corners, you will start picking arguments apart. Their method requires that you really understand each argument before looking at the answer choices. More often then not you will predict the correct answer before you even see it.

theycallmefoes
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Re: LGB/LRB vs. MLSAT

Postby theycallmefoes » Mon Nov 12, 2012 11:23 pm

NoodleyOne wrote:Only thing legendary about me is my balls for making that thread before I got my score back. Plenty of other high scorers on here.

Fair enough, I suppose. Though your 10-pt. improvement from your first attempt was also pretty legendary, in my opinion. :mrgreen:

To answer the question, yes, MLR is VERY useful on top of PSB. I started with the LRB and then moved to MLR, and I saw instant benefits.

Well, you convinced me to thoroughly go through the MLR guide, and I honestly can't thank you enough. You were definitely right about their explanation of necessary and sufficient assumptions - that bit alone is worth its weight in gold.

As far as LG, I haven't personally used the MLG because I was getting consistent -0s without any book studying. I know I'm definitely the minority there.

Also pretty legendary. :wink:

I got better in LG after I went through PSB, but I think their focus on defining each game is long-winded and unnecessary. From what I gather, the MLG 3rd edition is just as good for most game types, and I'm going to guess they fill it with less fluff. Still, you want to check with someone that used it.

My main problem with LG is timing. On the October exam, I was -0 leading up to zones. And the zones questions I missed were the ones I didn't have time to do (I got to the zones game right around the 5 minute warning). :(

Actually, that gets to my problem with Powerscore in general. I think it is a good tool, for the most part. However, I think it focuses so much on unnecessary detail that I think it can confuse the average test taker. Manhattan instead focuses on the core of argument, and taking a deep breath and focusing on the core can settle you down, instead of confusing you. It's intuitive and effective.

True. I just ignore some parts of the LRB, like the exercises about answer choices ('the correct AC will be X, and the 4 incorrect ones will be Y'), because I find them to be pointless. On the other hand, I find the MLR to be overly casual and less structured in comparison, but that may just be because I've developed a soft spot for the LRB after going through it so many times. As for focusing on the core of the argument, well, I actually don't find it to be particularly helpful at this point, but that's probably because I feel like I have already developed a strong understanding of the argument structure. I do think this would have been immensely helpful had I started my prep with MLR, though.

Sorry for the long-winded response - and thanks again for your input! :D




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