LG not improving, LR my favorite, am I the only one?

jared6180
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LG not improving, LR my favorite, am I the only one?

Postby jared6180 » Thu Nov 08, 2012 1:53 am

I have done 11/16 lessons on BP and I must say every time it comes time to do a LG lesson I try to justify skipping it. I am not good at it at all, which is a logical reason for why I don't want to do them, but LR I can't wait to work on. I really like LR.

That being said I feel really dumb, I have read thread after thread about how much you improve on LG and how it is the easiest to learn, but I have not experienced that AT ALL! I wish I could experience improvement on LG, it just isn't happening.

I am so dreading the LG section tonight that I stopped the lesson and came over to TLS to procrastinate doing the LG portion. I just don't get it!

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Mr. Elshal
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Re: LG not improving, LR my favorite, am I the only one?

Postby Mr. Elshal » Thu Nov 08, 2012 9:32 am

I actually had the opposite problem. I loved the games but hated LR.

Keep in mind that there are two LR sections and only one LG section. That means each type of question you master in LR gives you double returns because you pick up points in both LR sections. Each LG question type that you master only helps you in one section, so you're actually not in such a bad position, in terms of your interests.

That doesn't mean you shouldn't practice LG, though. I didn't focus on it and I ended up not finishing the last five or six questions in the LG section, which was roughly the difference between 175 and 180. That's a pretty depressing thought, so hopefully it'll help you motivate yourself to suffer through LG practice.

Long story short: LR practice will give you better returns for your effort, but definitely do not ignore any other section.

griffin.811
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Re: LG not improving, LR my favorite, am I the only one?

Postby griffin.811 » Thu Nov 08, 2012 11:09 am

I actually like doing the games, well I would like doing them if my future didnt depend so heavily on them. But I find doing them untimed or reviewing them interesting.

That said, I'm GOD AWFUL at new games! very good at games I've seen even once before, which unfortunately isnt very helpful.

Try this: do a timed problem, then after watch the 7sage LG video for that game. but while you watch the video actually do the problem again with the instructor. Be sure to take notes on the side about the major inferences!! Really take the time while watching the video to figure out what it was about a certain premise that should have been a signal to you that that particular premise would lead to a game changing inference. Usually cues that say in some way "No one can be alone" or something similar lead to HUGE inferences. Lately I've been finding that Premises that deal with all or most of the game pieces are the ones you should really take some extra time to figure out what implications they will have on the game.

Good Luck!

M.M.
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Re: LG not improving, LR my favorite, am I the only one?Joel

Postby M.M. » Thu Nov 08, 2012 1:53 pm

I am the same OP, and despite the consensus on TLS being that LG is super easy and that you can get to -0 easily on it, I've seen more and more posts like yours. In fact there's another on the front page right now where you might be able to get some help.

That said, I think you need to just practice more. You sound exactly like me during my Princeton Review courses and I'm telling you this now, you need to work on LG as hard as possible while you still have an instructor helping you and while you're still steeped in your LG lessons daily. Do not slack off. I did the same thing as you and I regret it a lot. What you also need to realize is that most of the people who say LG is easy have practiced them A TON. (like they've done each game 3x each).

Stop slacking on your BP courses, repeat each game multiple times, and drill, drill, drill, and you should be met with success. If you like I can link you to BP Shinners step by step process for LG that certainly helped me.

jared6180
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Re: LG not improving, LR my favorite, am I the only one?Joel

Postby jared6180 » Thu Nov 08, 2012 2:19 pm

M.M. wrote:
Stop slacking on your BP courses, repeat each game multiple times, and drill, drill, drill, and you should be met with success. If you like I can link you to BP Shinners step by step process for LG that certainly helped me.


Please do! Thank You

Theopliske8711
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Re: LG not improving, LR my favorite, am I the only one?

Postby Theopliske8711 » Thu Nov 08, 2012 3:44 pm

Even though the Logic Games, I feel, are the easiest, it also can be the most complicated if you are not mapping things out properly or if you feel rushed. I have not gotten to the point where I clear all the questions yet with a perfect score, but I can see how I can get there eventually; with the logical reasoning, I do enjoy them more as well, but I feel far more unsure. The reason being that things are not quantitative, they involve a bit more perception, and as a result, my ability to nail a section is harder to nail down. The LR is also, IMHO, far more exhausting, which makes the risk of mistake greater.

Ende
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Re: LG not improving, LR my favorite, am I the only one?

Postby Ende » Fri Nov 09, 2012 1:40 am

jared6180 wrote:I have done 11/16 lessons on BP and I must say every time it comes time to do a LG lesson I try to justify skipping it. I am not good at it at all, which is a logical reason for why I don't want to do them, but LR I can't wait to work on. I really like LR.

That being said I feel really dumb, I have read thread after thread about how much you improve on LG and how it is the easiest to learn, but I have not experienced that AT ALL! I wish I could experience improvement on LG, it just isn't happening.

I am so dreading the LG section tonight that I stopped the lesson and came over to TLS to procrastinate doing the LG portion. I just don't get it!



Some things that really helped me get better...

1. I brushed up on my conditioning reasoning skills with repeated work.

2. I started slow and worked my way up. I started with basic linear games, then advanced, then grouping.. etc. As a result, I feel very comfortable with the games.

3. Online/YouTube videos for free tutoring, lol.

I hope I helped!

jared6180
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Re: LG not improving, LR my favorite, am I the only one?

Postby jared6180 » Fri Nov 09, 2012 2:29 am

Ende and others...

All of this information is good. I think what I am going to have to do is go back to Lesson 1 and re-learn the basic linear games and start again, and just repeat. I remember how good I used to feel doing those basic games and how rewarding it was to get thru my first one with -0. I would love for one of those to show up on the Dec 2012 LSAT, but I HIGHLY doubt one of those will ever plop in my lap. I don't like it, I don't want to do it, but I also don't want to go to Roger Williams or Cooley...

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PDaddy
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Re: LG not improving, LR my favorite, am I the only one?

Postby PDaddy » Fri Nov 09, 2012 3:38 am

IF THERE IS A MAGICAL KEY...

Whenever someone struggles with games it's because they keep expecting some magical light to come on that unlocks the secret key to doing them all.

Folks...the magical key is this: think organically about the rules. Before you ever start doing the problems, flesh out the meanings of each rules and extrapolate new rules from them. Learn to diagram in an efficient manner. Focus on diagramming before moving onto the questions.

If you are only good at doing games after you have practiced them before, that is a glaring indication that you are not good at analyzing the rules and are too quick to dive into the questions. Success on LG requires the ability to see a game you have never seen before and attack it confidently because you know how to make deductions from the given rules and do proper setups.

ONLY PERFECT PRACTICE MAKES PERFECT. SET THEM UP, THEN KNOCK THEM DOWN

In fact, maybe you should try going from game to game and just setting them up. Most games are not chug-and-plug games, i.e. you can usually solve at least a few of the problems you encounter just by setting up the games properly. If this isn't happening frequently for you, the problem is in your setups. On average, your setups should lead to two or three gi'me answers, and sometimes four or five.

Focus-focus-focus on the setups. The setups are the key to mastering games. Learn how to form logic chains properly and view them quickly. In order to do this, you must understand how formal logic works. In order to do this, you initially must go slowly. Learn how to form trees for ordering games. in parentheses, write below each variable the earliest and latest that they can occur.

When you get ordering games with multiple "either before or after" rules/constraints, you will probably write four small diagrams, but it will be worth it once finished. You have answered all of the questions just by virtue of setting up the game.

Just remember that every section of the LSAT requires you to think and analyze before attacking questions. Success in RC requires you to absorb the key material...the "gist"of the passage. Success in LR requires you to identify the task ordered by the question stem, the premises, the conclusions, and any key words. In all three sections you must be proficient at slowing down, and THINKING about the stimuli presented and what it means.

Success in LG is no different. You must not only identify and set up the given rules; you must extrapolate new rules from those that are given. LG are specifically designed to test your ability to do this. So understand that the rules are designed to be "incomplete". Successful test-takers know howto deal with that reality.

ATTACKING THE PROBLEMS

You should not be erasing. Local problems should be solved next to the problems. Global questions should be solved using the main diagrams. Before moving on, always check the answers from previous questions for clues to unlocking other questions. The "orientation question" - usually the first question, which tests your knowledge/understanding of the rules - is your first opportunity to do this. I frequently find that the correct answer to the orientation question unlocks the answer to at least one other question.

Take your time. Practice understanding and diagramming the rules before diving into the questions. For most test-takers, learning to do this is the key to becoming good at games and enjoying them.

YOUR ATTITUDE IS IMPORTANT

Remember that they are called "games" for a reason. They should be fun. They are nothing but puzzles that test your ability to apply constraints to groups of hypos.

If you need to, learn to play psychological games on yourself to get motivated. Pretend that you know the person who wrote the games and that they were written just for you. Better yet, pretend that it's your most annoying friend, one who thinks he/she is smarter than you. In other words, personalize the situation and decide that you will not be beaten.

Do games over and over again...and again...and again!! Do them while waiting at the dentist. Do them while on the bus or train. Do them when you're trying to ignore your girlfriend/boyfriend. Do them when you feel stressed out. Do them when you're on the toilet (wash before picking up your materials to leave the restroom, lol). Do them at the beach or the park. Just make sure you're constantly doing them. If you aren't good at LG and you're supposed to prepare for the LSAT, you don't have time for bs. You don't have time to argue with people. You have no time to channel-surf aimlessly.

Practice them. That's the only way to get good, and by "good" I mean "fast and accurate".

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CyanIdes Of March
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Re: LG not improving, LR my favorite, am I the only one?

Postby CyanIdes Of March » Fri Nov 09, 2012 6:29 pm

If you want to see real gains in LG you have to learn to love it. I use to hate it as well but after drilling it over and over and over I've come to love it and as a result its easily my most consistently good section. That said, I can't over-emphasis how much drilling you have to do, you need to just sit down and do them for hours, preferrably of the same game type until it becomes second nature.

jared6180
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Re: LG not improving, LR my favorite, am I the only one?

Postby jared6180 » Wed Nov 14, 2012 3:27 pm

Did some regular study yesterday and did two basic linear, I know they are the easiest ones but got -0 on both for the first time ever. Using LSATblog to understand different game types and doing BluePrint Online course. Going back and watching the past lessons on LG specifically. I am trying to not abandon LR or RC completely, but trying to address my biggest problem area.

lsatkid007
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Re: LG not improving, LR my favorite, am I the only one?

Postby lsatkid007 » Wed Nov 14, 2012 4:15 pm

CyanIdes Of March wrote:If you want to see real gains in LG you have to learn to love it. I use to hate it as well but after drilling it over and over and over I've come to love it and as a result its easily my most consistently good section. That said, I can't over-emphasis how much drilling you have to do, you need to just sit down and do them for hours, preferrably of the same game type until it becomes second nature.


So how many games do you do of the same type. For instance I don't want to do more then 20 games of grouping matching because i want some left for my PT. When you say do them over and over and over do you mean try the game again in 30 mins, the next day or next week. Thanks for the help.

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BlaqBella
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Re: LG not improving, LR my favorite, am I the only one?

Postby BlaqBella » Wed Nov 14, 2012 4:36 pm

jared6180 wrote:I have done 11/16 lessons on BP and I must say every time it comes time to do a LG lesson I try to justify skipping it. I am not good at it at all, which is a logical reason for why I don't want to do them, but LR I can't wait to work on. I really like LR.

That being said I feel really dumb, I have read thread after thread about how much you improve on LG and how it is the easiest to learn, but I have not experienced that AT ALL! I wish I could experience improvement on LG, it just isn't happening.

I am so dreading the LG section tonight that I stopped the lesson and came over to TLS to procrastinate doing the LG portion. I just don't get it!


Wanna trade? I love love games and need to significantly improve my LR.

But seriously, you received great advice in this thread regarding LG. Utilize it.

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CyanIdes Of March
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Re: LG not improving, LR my favorite, am I the only one?

Postby CyanIdes Of March » Thu Nov 15, 2012 4:39 pm

lsatkid007 wrote:
CyanIdes Of March wrote:If you want to see real gains in LG you have to learn to love it. I use to hate it as well but after drilling it over and over and over I've come to love it and as a result its easily my most consistently good section. That said, I can't over-emphasis how much drilling you have to do, you need to just sit down and do them for hours, preferrably of the same game type until it becomes second nature.


So how many games do you do of the same type. For instance I don't want to do more then 20 games of grouping matching because i want some left for my PT. When you say do them over and over and over do you mean try the game again in 30 mins, the next day or next week. Thanks for the help.


What I did to learn it was use PTs 1 - 49 and did all the LGs by type through there and saved 50 to the most recent for full length PTs (I also use some of the 40s for PTs, having forgotten most of the LGs from that era I don't think it's too harmful). There's a link that list all the games by type somewhere on this forum, I have it saved on my other computer but not at work, but if you look for it you should be able to find it, was very helpful for me. Maybe it's pinned?

Oh and no I don't mean do them again in 30 minutes, you'd remember all the answers and it'd be a waste of time. I mean do them all through and then when you exhuasted all the material you want to use (as I said, I used 1 - 49) for a particular game type, go back and use them again. You will have forgotten most of the info, answers, and set-up given a month or so and since you'll likely be approaching it differently you it will seem fresh. Also, I'd say spend about 2 - 3 weeks with each game type (until you "get it") and then move on, but once you've gone through all the types, repeat the process and focus on your weak areas. Once you have done all of that (a process that took me 3 to 4 months) you should start working on full length sections because that is another part that may take a few weeks to become comfortable with.

Finally, when doing all these games always time yourself and aim for under 8:45. Some games may go over (and that's ok for some harder ones) and some may go way under, but you want to get a general feel for the pace you need to set for yourself.

HTH




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