LR problem. How to study for retake.

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mac35352
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LR problem. How to study for retake.

Postby mac35352 » Fri Nov 02, 2012 12:26 pm

Hello,
October was my 2nd attempt at the LSAT and I got the same exact score I got the first time. The problem is that the first time I made a missbubbling mistake on LG and effed up big time with a -9 or -10 which would have been -1. I self studied the first time and decided to take the BP movie course. I really liked it and was PTing in the mid/high 160s from the beginning. Towards the end of my prep I felt that my LR was getting worst but I was naive enough to think it was just a fluke. Now I know I should have waited until December to fix my LR problem before retaking. I usually had a -3/-4 in LR towards the beginning/middle of my prep and the weeks before the exam I was getting -5/-6 on LR. In October I ended up with -9 in one LR and -8 in the other one :( I couldn't believe it. I went over the answer sheet and I realized that in many of the questions I got wrong I changed the answer from correct to incorrect. For some reason I was second-guessing and sabotaging myself.

LG is my strength, RC is totally random for me (I'm OK with this).
Now I plan to retake in December and will start studying tomorrow. I want to focus on LR while maintaining RC and LG where they are. Should I use BP for LR? I used the LR Bible for my first take and now I am considering the Manhattan LSAT LR guide. Is that my best choice?
Please help! Thank you.

Manhattan LSAT Noah
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Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2010 8:43 am

Re: LR problem. How to study for retake.

Postby Manhattan LSAT Noah » Fri Nov 02, 2012 1:21 pm

mac35352 wrote:Hello,
October was my 2nd attempt at the LSAT and I got the same exact score I got the first time. The problem is that the first time I made a missbubbling mistake on LG and effed up big time with a -9 or -10 which would have been -1. I self studied the first time and decided to take the BP movie course. I really liked it and was PTing in the mid/high 160s from the beginning. Towards the end of my prep I felt that my LR was getting worst but I was naive enough to think it was just a fluke. Now I know I should have waited until December to fix my LR problem before retaking. I usually had a -3/-4 in LR towards the beginning/middle of my prep and the weeks before the exam I was getting -5/-6 on LR. In October I ended up with -9 in one LR and -8 in the other one :( I couldn't believe it. I went over the answer sheet and I realized that in many of the questions I got wrong I changed the answer from correct to incorrect. For some reason I was second-guessing and sabotaging myself.

LG is my strength, RC is totally random for me (I'm OK with this).
Now I plan to retake in December and will start studying tomorrow. I want to focus on LR while maintaining RC and LG where they are. Should I use BP for LR? I used the LR Bible for my first take and now I am considering the Manhattan LSAT LR guide. Is that my best choice?
Please help! Thank you.

In terms of what to do, I'd use this time to go far deeper into the work. It sounds like you have some strong brute intellectual force, and then when you started learning strategies you didn't really incorporate them. Here's an idea: any question that isn't obvious, I'd actually write out an explanation for it and then compare it to the one we have on our explanation forums (and post it if it's radically different).

Probably someone will give me a hard time for saying this, but if you can afford it, getting a tutor for a few hours early on might be useful. You don't want to go through this story again, and a good tutor should be able to see what you're doing wrong and point you in the right direction (and then you can probably do it alone from there).

I think you're in a good position to nail it next time. You've got the ability, time to bring it all together (and work on your bubbling :wink: )

I hope that's helpful.

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mac35352
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Re: LR problem. How to study for retake.

Postby mac35352 » Mon Nov 12, 2012 3:20 pm

Hi Noah, thank you for your response. I bought the guide over a week ago and I'm in Chapter 9. I like the way things are explained here. I have not take a full test yet but I think my LR problem might be better. I will take a PT on Wednesday and post the results. I have been using the Manhattan LSAT forum as well and it is very helpful.
I wish I could afford a tutor but I am as broke as can be.
Is it worth it at this point to buy the RC guide as well? Or should I focus on LR and LG for the next 2 weeks and just drill RC without new techniques?
Thank you for you advise :)

Manhattan LSAT Noah
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Re: LR problem. How to study for retake.

Postby Manhattan LSAT Noah » Mon Nov 12, 2012 3:42 pm

mac35352 wrote:Is it worth it at this point to buy the RC guide as well? Or should I focus on LR and LG for the next 2 weeks and just drill RC without new techniques?
Thank you for you advise :)

Tough to say - how about you read the free sample on our site and see what you think? Or, you can probably pick up a used copy on Amazon pretty cheaply. Changing your RC approach is a big project, but some people respond very quickly to new ideas. That said, if you're finding your work with LR and LG still has not hit a plateau, I'd keep focusing on those, as people generally get more bang for their buck their (especially since LR is half the test)

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mqt
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Re: LR problem. How to study for retake.

Postby mqt » Mon Nov 12, 2012 4:04 pm

Manhattan LSAT Noah wrote:
mac35352 wrote:Is it worth it at this point to buy the RC guide as well? Or should I focus on LR and LG for the next 2 weeks and just drill RC without new techniques?
Thank you for you advise :)

Tough to say - how about you read the free sample on our site and see what you think? Or, you can probably pick up a used copy on Amazon pretty cheaply. Changing your RC approach is a big project, but some people respond very quickly to new ideas. That said, if you're finding your work with LR and LG still has not hit a plateau, I'd keep focusing on those, as people generally get more bang for their buck their (especially since LR is half the test)


Image

I wish I could go back in time and use Manhattan study materials. I love these guys. (Not that I am sure of the truth of my image here, but it still strikes me as him being a good dude)

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mac35352
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Re: LR problem. How to study for retake.

Postby mac35352 » Thu Nov 15, 2012 11:31 pm

Mqt wrote:
Manhattan LSAT Noah wrote:
mac35352 wrote:Is it worth it at this point to buy the RC guide as well? Or should I focus on LR and LG for the next 2 weeks and just drill RC without new techniques?
Thank you for you advise :)

Tough to say - how about you read the free sample on our site and see what you think? Or, you can probably pick up a used copy on Amazon pretty cheaply. Changing your RC approach is a big project, but some people respond very quickly to new ideas. That said, if you're finding your work with LR and LG still has not hit a plateau, I'd keep focusing on those, as people generally get more bang for their buck their (especially since LR is half the test)


Image

I wish I could go back in time and use Manhattan study materials. I love these guys. (Not that I am sure of the truth of my image here, but it still strikes me as him being a good dude)

LOL. And their forum is an incredible free resource as well. Gotta love this guys!

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mac35352
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Re: LR problem. How to study for retake.

Postby mac35352 » Thu Nov 15, 2012 11:52 pm

Manhattan LSAT Noah wrote:
mac35352 wrote:Is it worth it at this point to buy the RC guide as well? Or should I focus on LR and LG for the next 2 weeks and just drill RC without new techniques?
Thank you for you advise :)

Tough to say - how about you read the free sample on our site and see what you think? Or, you can probably pick up a used copy on Amazon pretty cheaply. Changing your RC approach is a big project, but some people respond very quickly to new ideas. That said, if you're finding your work with LR and LG still has not hit a plateau, I'd keep focusing on those, as people generally get more bang for their buck their (especially since LR is half the test)


I am glad I bought the LR guide. It has opened my eyes. Focusing on the core, structure and eliminating wrong answers is more effective than trying to find the correct trick or technique to apply to each question type.
I took PT 49 and used an extra LR as the experimental (ended up with a (-14/166). What surprised me the most was my speed. I was flying through easy questions and was not second guessing myself. I scored -2 (1st LR) -3 (2nd LR) and -3 (3rd LR). This is certainly an improvement. I browsed the Manhattan LSAT forums after review to see if my explanation for why wrong answers are wrong was somewhat similar to the ones on the forums.
I couldn't contain myself and I bought the RC guide last night. I will continue to focus on LR but I can definitely benefit from a different approach to RC because I have always done whatever I consider appropriate as I read (no technique or specific approach) and I did not improve much here with Blueprint. It is not that long and so far it seems worth it (Just finished chapter 3).
Thanks again.

Manhattan LSAT Noah
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Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2010 8:43 am

Re: LR problem. How to study for retake.

Postby Manhattan LSAT Noah » Fri Nov 16, 2012 4:47 pm

Glad to hear our stuff is helping. What I like about our system is that I feel it builds on your native intelligence with logic and arguments versus overlaying a strict system that is very specific to the LSAT, all of which is a long-winded way of saying that you rock for making gains more than we do.

As for that image representing our company's beneficence, it's spot on in a couple of respects, for me at least: That's about as much hair as I have, and, I live in Denver, where there are actually more medical marijuana dispensaries than starbucks. So while I can't hit the peace pipe and keep up with the likes of all these young LSAT whippersnappers with their fancy videos, given my residence, a joint just might randomly fly into my mouth.

pgiboney
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Re: LR problem. How to study for retake.

Postby pgiboney » Fri Nov 16, 2012 5:31 pm

My situation is similar to Mac's. Regularly -3 and -2 on LR...that is until I jumped from PT 35 to PT52 a couple Friday's ago. -4 and -7. About had a heart attack. When I calmed down, like Mac, I thought it must have been a fluke. The I reviewed the test...not a fluke. Having already read the Bibles twice, I panicked. Fortunately your material was available for Kindle, downloaded immediately, and went back to work. I've now identified my weakness - all in what Manhatten classifies as the assumption family. I've made great strides here in a short period of time, and I have your company to thank for that...but still struggle on these types of questions, particularly the long winded formal logic, neccessary and sufficient assumption types. Formal logic is no problem for me on LG, but when it comes to LR, it's a real struggle to keep the argument sorted mentally. It doesn't help that I will only diagram as a last resort - it's a mental block and hard to overcome. I understand that the decision to diagram or not to diagram is pretty specific to the individual but I'm going to ask anyway...I usually finish LR with b/w a minute and 3 minutes to spare. In your experience, is it possible to diagram say, 4 or 5 questions, without taking a huge hit on time? Or is that totally dependent on the individual?

Thanks.

Manhattan LSAT Noah
Posts: 746
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2010 8:43 am

Re: LR problem. How to study for retake.

Postby Manhattan LSAT Noah » Sat Nov 17, 2012 12:03 am

pgiboney wrote:My situation is similar to Mac's. Regularly -3 and -2 on LR...that is until I jumped from PT 35 to PT52 a couple Friday's ago. -4 and -7. About had a heart attack. When I calmed down, like Mac, I thought it must have been a fluke. The I reviewed the test...not a fluke. Having already read the Bibles twice, I panicked. Fortunately your material was available for Kindle, downloaded immediately, and went back to work. I've now identified my weakness - all in what Manhatten classifies as the assumption family. I've made great strides here in a short period of time, and I have your company to thank for that...but still struggle on these types of questions, particularly the long winded formal logic, neccessary and sufficient assumption types. Formal logic is no problem for me on LG, but when it comes to LR, it's a real struggle to keep the argument sorted mentally. It doesn't help that I will only diagram as a last resort - it's a mental block and hard to overcome. I understand that the decision to diagram or not to diagram is pretty specific to the individual but I'm going to ask anyway...I usually finish LR with b/w a minute and 3 minutes to spare. In your experience, is it possible to diagram say, 4 or 5 questions, without taking a huge hit on time? Or is that totally dependent on the individual?

Thanks.

I think you're going to be OK. First off, you've just started absorbing the idea of the core -- you probably have some more room for growth in your ability to apply that thinking.

In terms of formal logic, one small suggestion is to play our LSAT Arcade, specifically "If..Then" - if you need to speed up in your ability to diagram, that can be of some help.

More broadly, I find that many people, esp. Bible-thumpers and former Bible-thumpers, over-do it on the diagramming and waste time doing that for questions that they don't need it for, and possibly getting turned around on those questions because they lose touch with the common sense logic issues at play. That said, there are definitely some questions that only some sort of LSAT freak could do without diagramming. I'm definitely not that freak (I'm a different flavor of freak) as I diagram about 3 questions per section (the occasional matching questions, and then some inference and sufficient assumption ones, like you).

I think the key for you is to know where to spend your time and mental energy. For example, if you're facing a sufficient assumption question, and there are a ton of statements, including one about "some" X are Y. You should know that that non-conditional statement is probably not relevant to the problem. What I'd do is gather together all the questions from previous PTs, look at the question stem--say to yourself what your job is (find something that must be true/find an answer that makes the argument air-tight) and look back over the stimulus with an eye towards what pieces you think will be "in play." Then diagram, evaluate answers, and see if you were right. I have a feeling you'll start to slim down your process to the essential "moves." (BTW, if you are one of our self-study course students, you'll find a set of advanced conditional logic LR questions in practice book 1 that would be perfect for this)

Tell me if you have more questions about that, otherwise tell me how that goes.




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