Second Cancellation?!

msquaredb
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Second Cancellation?!

Postby msquaredb » Sat Oct 06, 2012 6:36 pm

I took the exam in June, and I completely froze on LG and RC and I knew I underperformed. At that time I was PTing around 167.

I cancelled and invested in some serious test prep. Before todays exam I was averaging 171.5 over the past 8 exams. Unfortunately, I had a major issue today. I crushed the test except for LG. It crushed me... I didn't finish the first or last game and guessed for all but two between those games. I think the letter I guessed has a high probability of garner SOME points because that letter was sparse in the middle two games. Basically I guessed on 9. I really can't believe this happened again. I drilled logic games like crazy. I did 6 entire LG sections the week before the exam and score -1 to -4. I have scored numerous 170s and a 178 and 177.

I have PTed at 167 numerous times due to logic games disasters, but never quite as bad as this. I would have to be on point on the rest of the exam (-1,-1,-1) to get a 170 assuming a -13 curve.

Should I cancel? I clearly did not break 170. However, I would be fine with a 167 and maybe even a 166. In that case, I would just retake in December. What I am concerned about is if I have a 162. Will schools reject me before I get to prove myself?

Other facts about me: White male, straight from undergrad at large public research, biochemistry major, 3.95 GPA.

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Jaqen
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Re: Second Cancellation?!

Postby Jaqen » Sat Oct 06, 2012 6:47 pm

Given you guessed on 9, your goals, what you've been scoring, etc., yeah, I'd cancel.

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boblawlob
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Re: Second Cancellation?!

Postby boblawlob » Sat Oct 06, 2012 7:08 pm

With a GPA like that, a score slightly below 170 would make you super competitive for UC Berkeley.

luxlisbon
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Re: Second Cancellation?!

Postby luxlisbon » Sat Oct 06, 2012 7:11 pm

Jaqen wrote:Given you guessed on 9, your goals, what you've been scoring, etc., yeah, I'd cancel.

Am I missing something? Even if you missed all 9 that you guessed, I think you'd still be up for consideration for a 170.

eddie3636
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Re: Second Cancellation?!

Postby eddie3636 » Sat Oct 06, 2012 7:14 pm

luxlisbon wrote:
Jaqen wrote:Given you guessed on 9, your goals, what you've been scoring, etc., yeah, I'd cancel.

Am I missing something? Even if you missed all 9 that you guessed, I think you'd still be up for consideration for a 170.


agree with this. Curve will be higher than 9. wouldn't cancel

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Jaqen
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Re: Second Cancellation?!

Postby Jaqen » Sat Oct 06, 2012 7:17 pm

Ah, I missed this part somehow

I crushed the test except for LG


It's still risky given you guessed on 9, but I retract my former suggestion of cancel and move to uncertain/sleep on it.

az21833
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Re: Second Cancellation?!

Postby az21833 » Sat Oct 06, 2012 7:51 pm

Have a very similar question for myself under "Need Advice" thread in the same lsat forum. Similar situations - would appreciate your guys advice as well. Sorry for the hijack.

lsatownsme
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Re: Second Cancellation?!

Postby lsatownsme » Sat Oct 06, 2012 9:12 pm

Completely feel ya... I've been feeling pretty devastated after being crushed by the fourth game. I rarely miss any LG question and seriously NEVER had an instance like this where I didn't understand the question itself. Today was a disaster and I guessed on 5 of the 6 questions for that game, filled in answer choice A for the entire game.. hopefully at least some of them were As.....

msquaredb
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Re: Second Cancellation?!

Postby msquaredb » Sat Oct 06, 2012 11:12 pm

I'm hoping they are all Cs.......

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Eberry
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Re: Second Cancellation?!

Postby Eberry » Sat Oct 06, 2012 11:31 pm

Go to sleep, wake up, have some OJ and really think about it. Don't make a decision tonight.

09042014
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Re: Second Cancellation?!

Postby 09042014 » Sat Oct 06, 2012 11:42 pm

You'll probably choke next time too. I'd bank your 165 this time. It might be the best you can get. Retake, but you need to have an actual score on your record.

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Ex Cearulo
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Re: Second Cancellation?!

Postby Ex Cearulo » Sat Oct 06, 2012 11:50 pm

msquaredb wrote:What I am concerned about is if I have a 162. Will schools reject me before I get to prove myself?

With your GPA, schools certainly aren't going to care about your first score if you do better in December. Keep your score and then decide to submit or hold off applications based on what you get. If you still feel the need to "prove" yourself, then take it again.

Without knowing exactly how well you did on the other sections, sounds like a decent chance of a 165+, which is still not terrible considering the GPA (in a crazy hard major) will be above every 75% mark. That way you know you at least have a score when you go into the Dec test and there will be less pressure.

If you cancel, December is it. No 4th chances (for a while). The pressure will be crazy. Keep your score and see if you didn't get lucky with your guess choice. You may not even have to test again.

Will_Imake_it
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Re: Second Cancellation?!

Postby Will_Imake_it » Sun Oct 07, 2012 3:00 am

curve has to be around -11 or above

msquaredb
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Re: Second Cancellation?!

Postby msquaredb » Sun Oct 07, 2012 9:55 am

Desert Fox wrote:You'll probably choke next time too. I'd bank your 165 this time. It might be the best you can get. Retake, but you need to have an actual score on your record.


Harsh...but true. This is the best course of action, and also what I independently decided on this morning.

msquaredb
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Re: Second Cancellation?!

Postby msquaredb » Sun Oct 07, 2012 9:58 am

HawgDriver wrote:
msquaredb wrote:What I am concerned about is if I have a 162. Will schools reject me before I get to prove myself?

With your GPA, schools certainly aren't going to care about your first score if you do better in December. Keep your score and then decide to submit or hold off applications based on what you get. If you still feel the need to "prove" yourself, then take it again.

Without knowing exactly how well you did on the other sections, sounds like a decent chance of a 165+, which is still not terrible considering the GPA (in a crazy hard major) will be above every 75% mark. That way you know you at least have a score when you go into the Dec test and there will be less pressure.

If you cancel, December is it. No 4th chances (for a while). The pressure will be crazy. Keep your score and see if you didn't get lucky with your guess choice. You may not even have to test again.


I agree. I think my GPA will act as a buffer so that I don't get immediately rejected. I know I am capable of 170+. It has happened so many times. The frustrating thing for me is knowing the options that would open up with my GPA if I could just crack 170-172. I may sneak into a Cornell, USC, or UCLA with a 165. I can't see myself cracking into a range higher than that even with my GPA. I will still apply to the lower half of the T14 and retake probably.

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Ex Cearulo
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Re: Second Cancellation?!

Postby Ex Cearulo » Sun Oct 07, 2012 10:06 am

msquaredb wrote:
HawgDriver wrote:
msquaredb wrote:What I am concerned about is if I have a 162. Will schools reject me before I get to prove myself?

With your GPA, schools certainly aren't going to care about your first score if you do better in December. Keep your score and then decide to submit or hold off applications based on what you get. If you still feel the need to "prove" yourself, then take it again.

Without knowing exactly how well you did on the other sections, sounds like a decent chance of a 165+, which is still not terrible considering the GPA (in a crazy hard major) will be above every 75% mark. That way you know you at least have a score when you go into the Dec test and there will be less pressure.

If you cancel, December is it. No 4th chances (for a while). The pressure will be crazy. Keep your score and see if you didn't get lucky with your guess choice. You may not even have to test again.


I agree. I think my GPA will act as a buffer so that I don't get immediately rejected. I know I am capable of 170+. It has happened so many times. The frustrating thing for me is knowing the options that would open up with my GPA if I could just crack 170-172. I may sneak into a Cornell, USC, or UCLA with a 165. I can't see myself cracking into a range higher than that even with my GPA. I will still apply to the lower half of the T14 and retake probably.


Good call on hitting the bottom half of the T14 with a 165-169. Don't sell yourself short, dude. There are tons of stories all over TLS about people who outperformed their numbers. Your personal statement, LoRs, and resume, if written well, can help push you over the line at a lot of schools who may be on the fence because of your LSAT. In any event, I think you're wise to keep your score from this LSAT and then go from there. Keep us posted!

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mephistopheles
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Re: Second Cancellation?!

Postby mephistopheles » Sun Oct 07, 2012 11:49 am

canceling twice doesn't matter. a december score will work just fine.

msquaredb
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Re: Second Cancellation?!

Postby msquaredb » Sun Oct 07, 2012 12:07 pm

I though two cancellations looked extremely suspicious. Also, wouldn't I be applying disastrously late in the cycle?

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somewhatwayward
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Re: Second Cancellation?!

Postby somewhatwayward » Sun Oct 07, 2012 12:14 pm

msquaredb wrote:I agree. I think my GPA will act as a buffer so that I don't get immediately rejected. I know I am capable of 170+. It has happened so many times. The frustrating thing for me is knowing the options that would open up with my GPA if I could just crack 170-172. I may sneak into a Cornell, USC, or UCLA with a 165. I can't see myself cracking into a range higher than that even with my GPA. I will still apply to the lower half of the T14 and retake probably.


As some others have mentioned, if you got around a 165, you would have a shot at UVa (with ED), Berkeley, Cornell, maybe Michigan, and perhaps some other lower T14s. As for the I've-hit-170+-so-many-times-on-PTs, part of what the LSAT is measuring is handling pressure. You aren't really under pressure when you are PTing in your room, and your 177 PT means diddly squat. That's why you should assume a drop from your PT average. Perhaps third time will be the charm with regard to handling the pressure. You are obviously very smart. Good luck!

msquaredb
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Re: Second Cancellation?!

Postby msquaredb » Sun Oct 07, 2012 1:19 pm

somewhatwayward wrote:
msquaredb wrote:I agree. I think my GPA will act as a buffer so that I don't get immediately rejected. I know I am capable of 170+. It has happened so many times. The frustrating thing for me is knowing the options that would open up with my GPA if I could just crack 170-172. I may sneak into a Cornell, USC, or UCLA with a 165. I can't see myself cracking into a range higher than that even with my GPA. I will still apply to the lower half of the T14 and retake probably.


As some others have mentioned, if you got around a 165, you would have a shot at UVa (with ED), Berkeley, Cornell, maybe Michigan, and perhaps some other lower T14s. As for the I've-hit-170+-so-many-times-on-PTs, part of what the LSAT is measuring is handling pressure. You aren't really under pressure when you are PTing in your room, and your 177 PT means diddly squat. That's why you should assume a drop from your PT average. Perhaps third time will be the charm with regard to handling the pressure. You are obviously very smart. Good luck!


Thanks...I have also decided that if I don't get into a T14 I will work in a research lab for pay for a year while I study and reapply. I honestly can't justify the debt for anything other than T14. Maybe a huge scholarship at my state school (IUB) could convince me otherwise.

msquaredb
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Re: Second Cancellation?!

Postby msquaredb » Sun Oct 07, 2012 4:05 pm

Changing my mind... my ability to get a 165 hinges on a near perfect score in the other 3 sections. I don't think I want to take that risk.

How terrible does canceling twice really look?




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