#3/s.2/Q4 Isn't this an invalid question?

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Surprised
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#3/s.2/Q4 Isn't this an invalid question?

Postby Surprised » Thu Aug 02, 2012 9:24 am

Might be another stupid question...


I can't find any right answer here.
How come option (B) could be right logic here?

The first sentence says that
To be both inviting and functional, the work must be unobtrusive.
I & F -> Unobtrusive
(This implies that "not Unobtrusive -> either not I or not F")

The last sentence goes,
Modern architects produce buildings that are not functional.
MA -> not F

(B) says that Modern architects produce buildings that are not unobtrusive.
MA -> not unobtrusive

I think it is impossible to infer that "not Functional" is sufficient for "not unobtrusive"


Ugh. HELP!
Somebody rescue me!!
Last edited by Surprised on Thu Aug 02, 2012 9:39 am, edited 1 time in total.

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flem
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Re: #3/s.2/Q4 Isn't this an invalid question?

Postby flem » Thu Aug 02, 2012 9:30 am

Look for the link between those statements. Answer choice (B) matched my prephrase almost completely.

A) is a mistaken reversal
B) is correct. If it's not functional it's not unobtrusive.
C) is too strong and unsupported
D) is not necessarily true, what if it's not inviting or functional?
E) is not supported
Last edited by flem on Thu Aug 02, 2012 9:38 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Eberry
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Re: #3/s.2/Q4 Isn't this an invalid question?

Postby Eberry » Thu Aug 02, 2012 9:41 am

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Eberry
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Re: #3/s.2/Q4 Isn't this an invalid question?

Postby Eberry » Thu Aug 02, 2012 9:42 am

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PeanutsNJam
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Re: #3/s.2/Q4 Isn't this an invalid question?

Postby PeanutsNJam » Thu Aug 02, 2012 9:42 am

I'm also severely confused by this question. Nova, you misread:

B says MA -> ~F -> O. Modern architects (that produce buildings NOT F) produce NOT unobtrusive.

Tflemg, he's talking about an issue in the formal logic of the question.

For example, a modern architect could make a run-down looking building that's useless. He has made something that is useless but is also unobtrusive.

Eberry you got it wrong. I originally thought the OP got the formal logic wrong, but the OP is right.

"If it is to be inviting and function, then it must be unobtrusive."

Is properly diagrammed inviting and function -> unobtrusive

If a building is unobtrusive, it isn't necessarily inviting and functional. You can't say inviting and functional -> unobtrusive.
Last edited by PeanutsNJam on Thu Aug 02, 2012 9:46 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: #3/s.2/Q4 Isn't this an invalid question?

Postby PeanutsNJam » Thu Aug 02, 2012 9:45 am

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flem
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Re: #3/s.2/Q4 Isn't this an invalid question?

Postby flem » Thu Aug 02, 2012 9:45 am

PeanutsNJam wrote:For example, a modern architect could make a run-down looking building that's useless. He has made something that is useless but is also unobtrusive.


Who cares? That's not what (B) says.

Either way, the other 4 answers are clearly wrong. Sometimes you can sabotage yourself by thinking too hard about this stuff.

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PeanutsNJam
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Re: #3/s.2/Q4 Isn't this an invalid question?

Postby PeanutsNJam » Thu Aug 02, 2012 9:46 am

B says that since the architect makes something useless (not functional), his building is therefore also obtrusive.

This logic is flawed.

Look at the OP's analysis of the formal logic. There's nothing wrong with his work.
Last edited by PeanutsNJam on Thu Aug 02, 2012 9:50 am, edited 1 time in total.

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flem
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Re: #3/s.2/Q4 Isn't this an invalid question?

Postby flem » Thu Aug 02, 2012 9:47 am

PeanutsNJam wrote:B says that since the architect makes something useless (not functional), his building is therefore also unobtrusive.

This logic is flawed.

Look at the OP's analysis of the formal logic. There's nothing wrong with his work.


No, you're misinterpreting grammer (double negatives)

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Nova
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Re: #3/s.2/Q4 Isn't this an invalid question?

Postby Nova » Thu Aug 02, 2012 9:49 am

PeanutsNJam wrote:I'm also severely confused by this question. Nova, you misread:


Right. I realized that and said F*** it. LOL.

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PeanutsNJam
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Re: #3/s.2/Q4 Isn't this an invalid question?

Postby PeanutsNJam » Thu Aug 02, 2012 9:51 am

flem wrote:
PeanutsNJam wrote:B says that since the architect makes something useless (not functional), his building is therefore also unobtrusive.

This logic is flawed.

Look at the OP's analysis of the formal logic. There's nothing wrong with his work.


No, you're misinterpreting grammer (double negatives)


Woops I meant obtrusive when I typed that.

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flem
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Re: #3/s.2/Q4 Isn't this an invalid question?

Postby flem » Thu Aug 02, 2012 9:55 am

Maybe this will help, also this resource is a gold mine
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Surprised
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Re: #3/s.2/Q4 Isn't this an invalid question?

Postby Surprised » Thu Aug 02, 2012 9:56 am

Thanks for the replies...

So... we are all confused now?

:oops:

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flem
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Re: #3/s.2/Q4 Isn't this an invalid question?

Postby flem » Thu Aug 02, 2012 9:59 am

Surprised wrote:Thanks for the replies...

So... we are all confused now?

:oops:


No. In situations like this just use process of elimination. You can easily tell that (A) and (D) and mistaken reversals and (C) and (E) are unsupported, leaving you with only (B).

Granted, (B) made immediate intuitive sense to me. Also, this is why I really don't like to use formal logic much in LR. I tend to reserve it only for the "All A's are B's, but some B's are not A's" question type or some tricky parallel reasoning questions. Thinking about this stuff too hard can psych you out, whereas if I hit this question on a test I would have relatively quickly chosen (B) and moved on.

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Eberry
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Re: #3/s.2/Q4 Isn't this an invalid question?

Postby Eberry » Thu Aug 02, 2012 10:24 am

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Last edited by Eberry on Fri Nov 02, 2012 10:08 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PeanutsNJam
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Re: #3/s.2/Q4 Isn't this an invalid question?

Postby PeanutsNJam » Thu Aug 02, 2012 10:37 am

I intuitively thought it was B, but then after examining the formal logic it became apparent that B wasn't logically correct.

It is also, however, not logically incorrect.

B "could be true" while all the others must be false.

It seems Manhattan is saying to suspend logic for this one and just "go with it." All the other ones are very wrong (contradicting the stimulus almost), and sometimes you just have lousy questions like this.

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Eberry
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Re: #3/s.2/Q4 Isn't this an invalid question?

Postby Eberry » Thu Aug 02, 2012 10:55 am

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foggynotion
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Re: #3/s.2/Q4 Isn't this an invalid question?

Postby foggynotion » Fri Aug 03, 2012 3:43 am

Forgive me if this was discussed already, but if they violated the precept, then they must not have done what the precept advised, which was to create works that were unobtrusive--couldn't it be looked at that way, or maybe that's an oversimplification...




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