Preptest 14 Section 1 Logic Game Question 24

hblake
Posts: 44
Joined: Sun Jul 15, 2012 9:31 am

Preptest 14 Section 1 Logic Game Question 24

Postby hblake » Tue Jul 31, 2012 5:55 pm

Can someone get this one?


During each of the fall, winter, spring and summer seasons of one year, Nikki and Otto each participate in exactly one of the following sports: hockey, kayaking, mountaineering, running and volleyball.

Each child participates in exactly four different sports during the year.
In the fall, each child participates in mountaineering, running, or volleyball.
In the winter, each child participates in hockey or volleyball.
In the spring, each child participates in kayaking, mountaineering, running or volleyball.
In the summer, each child participates in kayaking, mountaineering, or volleyball.
Nikki and Otto do not participate in the same sport during the same season.
Otto's summer sport is volleyball.

This is true:
(C) Nikki's spring sport is mountaineering and Otto's fall sport is mountaineering.

Why aren't these?:
(A) Nikki's fall sport is mountaineering and Otto's spring sport is running.
(B) Nikki's spring sport is running and her summer sport is mountaineering.
(D) Nikki's spring sport is running and Otto's fall sport is mountaineering.
(E) Nikki's summer sport is mountaineering and Otto's spring sport is mountaineering.
Last edited by hblake on Wed Aug 01, 2012 1:33 am, edited 2 times in total.

User avatar
Verity
Posts: 1253
Joined: Sun Jan 30, 2011 11:26 pm

Re: Preptest 14 Section 1 Logic Game Question 24

Postby Verity » Wed Aug 01, 2012 1:16 am

The answer is C.

Here's why (by the way, delete the question, it's copyrighted):

You start out by graphing this as:


F W Sp Su
N _ _ _ _
O _ _ _ _


Fill in the blanks with the first letters of each sport. We know that in the Otto/Summer blank, we put v. Because h and r cannot go in summer, N's summer has to be m/k. Then look at winter. It can only have v or h. We know that each student has one DIFFERENT sport per season, so O has to have h in winter, and N has to have v. So we have:

F W Sp Su
N _ v _ m/k
O _ h _ v

Now, make templates for the N having either m or k in summer. There are 3:

F W Sp Su
N r v k m
O m h r v

F W Sp Su
N m v r k
O r h m/k v

F W Sp Su
N r v m k
O m h k/r v


Now solve. C fits.
Last edited by Verity on Wed Aug 01, 2012 1:38 am, edited 2 times in total.

User avatar
cc.celina
Posts: 602
Joined: Fri May 25, 2012 1:17 pm

Re: Preptest 14 Section 1 Logic Game Question 24

Postby cc.celina » Wed Aug 01, 2012 1:25 am

Haha, to add on to Verity:

Here's a neater version of my diagram

Image

Sorry that the bottom isn't that clear, the columns are labeled F, W, Sp, Su.

From here, it is a simple matter of filling in every hypothetical presented in the answer choices. You quickly discover that the limiting rule here is the first one: Each child participates in exactly four different sports. I'll only demonstrate one incorrect answer choice to show you why it doesn't work:

A: Put N in the M slot for fall and O in the R slot for spring. Now try to fill in the rest. You run into an immediate problem: O is now filled in for V (summer) and R (spring), and the only sport left for O is H in winter. O can't go anywhere in the fall, because the only open slots are V and R.

The other incorrect answer choices are wrong for the same reason.

When you get around to inputting C, you realize that the entire diagram works when you try to fill in around it. Put N in the M slot for spring and O in the M slot for fall. Now you can put another O in the R for fall and the H for winter, which leaves N open to a V in winter and a two different possible options for spring and summer. There is nothing that disqualifies this scenario. Therefore it is the correct answer.

FYI, edit out the text of the question from the post. You're technically not allowed to quote extensively from LSAC material on TLS.

Hope that helped!

Edit: Scooped by verity's edit! I'll leave this up in case it is helpful.

Another edit: After looking at verity's, that diagram is more efficient. Use that one! Mine works but is slow.
Last edited by cc.celina on Wed Aug 01, 2012 1:28 am, edited 2 times in total.

User avatar
Verity
Posts: 1253
Joined: Sun Jan 30, 2011 11:26 pm

Re: Preptest 14 Section 1 Logic Game Question 24

Postby Verity » Wed Aug 01, 2012 1:26 am

There's something to be said for writing things out.

User avatar
Verity
Posts: 1253
Joined: Sun Jan 30, 2011 11:26 pm

Re: Preptest 14 Section 1 Logic Game Question 24

Postby Verity » Wed Aug 01, 2012 1:35 am

cc.celina wrote:Another edit: After looking at verity's, that diagram is more efficient. Use that one! Mine works but is slow.


It's really the Powerscore type of setup for a two-level linear game. This is why OP needs to read the LG Bible and stop trying to impress him-/herself.

hblake
Posts: 44
Joined: Sun Jul 15, 2012 9:31 am

Re: Preptest 14 Section 1 Logic Game Question 24

Postby hblake » Wed Aug 01, 2012 1:43 am

Verity wrote:It's really the Powerscore type of setup for a two-level linear game. This is why OP needs to read the LG Bible and stop trying to impress him-/herself.


Powerscore must not have much to teach if I could come up with exactly the same format diagram without having read it.

My apologies, Verity, to you, because my original post was looking to get a response with an explanation for why the other answers were incorrect. Celina pointed it out when she said "each child participates in exactly four different sports." Don't know why that had such ring to it, but it clicked for me for some reason.

hblake
Posts: 44
Joined: Sun Jul 15, 2012 9:31 am

Re: Preptest 14 Section 1 Logic Game Question 24

Postby hblake » Wed Aug 01, 2012 1:44 am

Verity wrote:There's something to be said for writing things out.

Amen.

User avatar
cc.celina
Posts: 602
Joined: Fri May 25, 2012 1:17 pm

Re: Preptest 14 Section 1 Logic Game Question 24

Postby cc.celina » Wed Aug 01, 2012 1:49 am

hblake wrote:
Verity wrote:It's really the Powerscore type of setup for a two-level linear game. This is why OP needs to read the LG Bible and stop trying to impress him-/herself.


Powerscore must not have much to teach if I could come up with exactly the same format diagram without having read it.

Ok, hush. I hesitate to assume people are assholes but you sound like one. Please stop. We are happy to help, but we don't appreciate being snarked at in return and we will not continue if you keep doing that.

hblake
Posts: 44
Joined: Sun Jul 15, 2012 9:31 am

Re: Preptest 14 Section 1 Logic Game Question 24

Postby hblake » Wed Aug 01, 2012 1:57 am

Here's how I've come to understand the problem and why the other answers couldn't work.

In scenario A where Nikki's Fall sport is mountaineering, she would take volleyball in Winter and Kayaking in Spring. She would take Kayaking in Spring because she already took mountaineering in the Fall and Otto, as per the answer's stipulations, has taken running. So come Summer there are only the three sports she's already taken available, and like the other posters have said, each kid has to take four different sports.

In scenario B where Nikki's Spring sport is running and her Summer sport is mountaineering, in the Fall she would have taken volleyball, the only sport available that she wasn't assigned to take later in the year, and that would leave hockey for the Winter. Since Otto has to take hockey in the Winter because he's already taken volleyball in summer, this doesn't work.

So it's a matter of not just figuring out what sports each kid takes and comparing that to what they can take and what is left available, but what they've taken earlier in the year and comparing that to what's available in later seasons.

Thanks to the responders who helped me understand this problem set.

hblake
Posts: 44
Joined: Sun Jul 15, 2012 9:31 am

Re: Preptest 14 Section 1 Logic Game Question 24

Postby hblake » Wed Aug 01, 2012 2:00 am

cc.celina wrote:Ok, hush. I hesitate to assume people are assholes but you sound like one. Please stop. We are happy to help, but we don't appreciate being snarked at in return and we will not continue if you keep doing that.

Lady, you're going to dissuade me from reading your Bible if you join the club of those hitting me over the head with it.

User avatar
PeanutsNJam
Posts: 3699
Joined: Tue Jul 10, 2012 1:57 pm

Re: Preptest 14 Section 1 Logic Game Question 24

Postby PeanutsNJam » Wed Aug 01, 2012 9:38 am

hblake wrote:
cc.celina wrote:Ok, hush. I hesitate to assume people are assholes but you sound like one. Please stop. We are happy to help, but we don't appreciate being snarked at in return and we will not continue if you keep doing that.

Lady, you're going to dissuade me from reading your Bible if you join the club of those hitting me over the head with it.


*Man walks in to a bar, acting all cocky and treating everybody else like shit who tries to buy him a beer.*

*Other people get pissed and tell him to stop being an ass.*

*Man thinks he's being "beaten over the head", "intimidated", and "discriminated against."*

Face it, you suck at LG. If you didn't, and if you wrote out a proper diagram that "you can figure out on your own", you wouldn't have these types of questions.

Don't read my Bible. It has nothing to offer you. I have nothing to lose by letting you embarrass yourself on test day. Just try to take a timed LG section and you'll know what I mean.

User avatar
flem
Posts: 12949
Joined: Mon Oct 10, 2011 6:44 pm

Re: Preptest 14 Section 1 Logic Game Question 24

Postby flem » Wed Aug 01, 2012 11:22 am

http://www.manhattanlsat.com/forums/dia ... 52837863f2

Manhattan has a forum for every LG section, I found their diagram especially helpful. Remember that Nikki must run in the fall if Otto doesn't (which means he mountaineers). Since we know if Otto mountaineers then Nikki must run in the fall, Nikki could mountaineer in the spring with no problems.

A) is incorrect since if Nikki mountaineers in the fall, Otto runs in the fall, so he can't run in the spring
B) is incorrect since either mountaineering or running in the fall must happen and this precludes that
C) is correct for the above explanation
D) is incorrect for the same reason A) is, with the people reversed
E) is incorrect since this would make both of them run in the fall, and they can't participate in the same sport.

User avatar
Verity
Posts: 1253
Joined: Sun Jan 30, 2011 11:26 pm

Re: Preptest 14 Section 1 Logic Game Question 24

Postby Verity » Wed Aug 01, 2012 12:43 pm

hblake wrote:
Verity wrote:It's really the Powerscore type of setup for a two-level linear game. This is why OP needs to read the LG Bible and stop trying to impress him-/herself.


Powerscore must not have much to teach if I could come up with exactly the same format diagram without having read it.

My apologies, Verity, to you, because my original post was looking to get a response with an explanation for why the other answers were incorrect. Celina pointed it out when she said "each child participates in exactly four different sports." Don't know why that had such ring to it, but it clicked for me for some reason.


You're an idiot. I did answer your question. These are the 3 templates. The other answers don't fit because they don't conform to the templates. There's like a total of two general rules (i.e., no vertical identity, no horizontal identity). Obviously this mental LG stuff isn't working for you.

I'm done helping this douchebag.

hblake
Posts: 44
Joined: Sun Jul 15, 2012 9:31 am

Re: Preptest 14 Section 1 Logic Game Question 24

Postby hblake » Wed Aug 01, 2012 1:58 pm

PeanutsNJam wrote:Face it, you suck at LG. If you didn't, and if you wrote out a proper diagram that "you can figure out on your own", you wouldn't have these types of questions.


Now you're getting it. The reason I'm asking these questions is because I can't answer them.

Verity and you could learn something from tflem's ability to answer questions without giving directions; left, right up and down in solving mysteries of children's schedules. Just wait a little while and something good will come of our talk.

User avatar
PeanutsNJam
Posts: 3699
Joined: Tue Jul 10, 2012 1:57 pm

Re: Preptest 14 Section 1 Logic Game Question 24

Postby PeanutsNJam » Wed Aug 01, 2012 2:30 pm

So let me get this straight:

- You "can't answer" these questions (synonymous with believing that you're not good at LG)

- You claim to be able to ace LG sections untimed without writing anything down

- You claim that you could have made Verity's diagram on your own without having read anything

There's some inconsistency going on here.

VasaVasori
Posts: 573
Joined: Sun Dec 11, 2011 2:36 pm

Re: Preptest 14 Section 1 Logic Game Question 24

Postby VasaVasori » Wed Aug 01, 2012 2:36 pm

Let him be. In the worst case scenario, he doesn't heed your advice and there is one less person with whom we need to compete in the upcoming cycle.

User avatar
CardozoLaw09
Posts: 1745
Joined: Sat Aug 28, 2010 1:58 pm

Re: Preptest 14 Section 1 Logic Game Question 24

Postby CardozoLaw09 » Wed Aug 01, 2012 2:38 pm

VasaVasori wrote:Let him be. In the worst case scenario, he doesn't heed your advice and there is one less person with whom we need to compete in the upcoming cycle.


+1

hblake
Posts: 44
Joined: Sun Jul 15, 2012 9:31 am

Re: Preptest 14 Section 1 Logic Game Question 24

Postby hblake » Wed Aug 01, 2012 2:41 pm

PeanutsNJam wrote:- You "can't answer" these questions (synonymous with believing that you're not good at LG)


If you say so.

- You claim to be able to ace LG sections untimed without writing anything down


If I claim it.

- You claim that you could have made Verity's diagram on your own without having read anything


That's the claim..

There's some inconsistency going on here.


How 'bout this:

PeanutsNJam wrote:I have nothing to lose by letting you embarrass yourself on test day. Just try to take a timed LG section and you'll know what I mean.


How would taking a timed LG section help me know you have nothing invested in my embarrassment? Since you won't answer my PM it looks like you actually do care to see me publicly dismayed.

User avatar
PeanutsNJam
Posts: 3699
Joined: Tue Jul 10, 2012 1:57 pm

Re: Preptest 14 Section 1 Logic Game Question 24

Postby PeanutsNJam » Wed Aug 01, 2012 2:58 pm

hblake wrote:If you say so.


You said so:

hblake wrote:Now you're getting it. The reason I'm asking these questions is because I can't answer them.


-----

hblake wrote:If I claim it.


You did claim it.

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=190508 14th post down.

-----

hblake wrote:
PeanutsNJam wrote:I have nothing to lose by letting you embarrass yourself on test day. Just try to take a timed LG section and you'll know what I mean.


How would taking a timed LG section help me know you have nothing invested in my embarrassment? Since you won't answer my PM it looks like you actually do care to see me publicly dismayed.


Taking a timed LG section will help you know that you will embarrass yourself on test day. However, it turns out you have already been publicly dismayed as I don't see anybody agreeing with your or speaking in your favor.

-----

How about this: you're not addressing my claim that your statements are inconsistent with each other.

User avatar
Verity
Posts: 1253
Joined: Sun Jan 30, 2011 11:26 pm

Re: Preptest 14 Section 1 Logic Game Question 24

Postby Verity » Wed Aug 01, 2012 3:11 pm

hblake is a tool. Let's just leave him to his own condescension and ineptitude, and get back to helping people who have a shot of performing well on test day.

By the way dummy/OP, you're still infringing copyright by leaving the whole question up, but now you're just not giving credit. Just put the test and question number before someone informs the mods.

hblake
Posts: 44
Joined: Sun Jul 15, 2012 9:31 am

Re: Preptest 14 Section 1 Logic Game Question 24

Postby hblake » Wed Aug 01, 2012 3:16 pm

Keep in mind I'm terrible at logic. Here it is again:

So let me get this straight:


Here's the stated objective: accuracy.

- You "can't answer" these questions (synonymous with believing that you're not good at LG)


Here's you presenting what I said as factual.

- You claim to be able to ace LG sections untimed without writing anything down


Here's you presenting my statement as dubious.

- You claim that you could have made Verity's diagram on your own without having read anything


Same as the second one.

There's some inconsistency going on here.


Your quotations are inconsistent.

hblake
Posts: 44
Joined: Sun Jul 15, 2012 9:31 am

Re: Preptest 14 Section 1 Logic Game Question 24

Postby hblake » Wed Aug 01, 2012 3:19 pm

Verity wrote:By the way dummy/OP, you're still infringing copyright by leaving the whole question up, but now you're just not giving credit. Just put the test and question number before someone informs the mods.


See the title of the thread.

User avatar
Verity
Posts: 1253
Joined: Sun Jan 30, 2011 11:26 pm

Re: Preptest 14 Section 1 Logic Game Question 24

Postby Verity » Wed Aug 01, 2012 3:22 pm

hblake wrote:
Verity wrote:By the way dummy/OP, you're still infringing copyright by leaving the whole question up, but now you're just not giving credit. Just put the test and question number before someone informs the mods.


See the title of the thread.


You still can't put the question up. I guess RC is next for you.

User avatar
ccordero
Posts: 84
Joined: Wed May 23, 2012 3:14 pm

Re: Preptest 14 Section 1 Logic Game Question 24

Postby ccordero » Wed Aug 01, 2012 3:26 pm

holy crap i've never seen anyone be so rude to people trying to help them.

and btw -- just citing the source of the question isn't good enough -- you're not allowed to reproduce the question at all, just the same as how you can't reproduce an entire chapter for the internet to read by citing the source but not receiving permission for it.

hblake
Posts: 44
Joined: Sun Jul 15, 2012 9:31 am

Re: Preptest 14 Section 1 Logic Game Question 24

Postby hblake » Wed Aug 01, 2012 3:37 pm

ccordero wrote:holy crap i've never seen anyone be so rude to people trying to help them.


If you're going to stick your head in the locker room, don't wrinkle your nose.




Return to “LSAT Prep and Discussion Forum”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Baidu [Spider], galeatus, GioChanturia, Roverse, theboringest and 3 guests