I'm starting to lose it because of LG

M.M.
Posts: 381
Joined: Mon Sep 06, 2010 5:16 pm

I'm starting to lose it because of LG

Postby M.M. » Mon Jul 30, 2012 2:16 am

I can't even get the simplest games. I did a Princeton Review course and for a while I was doing maybe 2.5 games a section with ~80% accuracy, leaving me with a score of 164. I finished the course and mistakenly slowed down my studying, recently picked up the LG bible, and began working on Basic Linear games again, after deciding I'd spend a while trying to master games by type as they got harder and harder and then work on doing PTs and fine tuning with args and RC.

I started doing them, and I am sitting here baffled at how TERRIBLE I am at them, no matter what I do. I have pushed myself to the point of rage multiple times doing these and even when I was in my PR course I picked them up very slowly. I just did the basic linear on PT 37 Game 4, ordering swimmers by the laps they do - a game I did months ago in my PR course - and I got 3/6 wrong ... I have no idea how you guys are supposed to help but this is obviously not working, and it's really, really getting to me. I go -1-2 per section on args and ~-4 on RC, and LG is absolutely destroying my score. I posted a thread here a week or two ago about not knowing what to do to start studying, now I have a plan but once again it seems like I really just can't wrap my head around LG. I have no idea why; I make mistakes that I absolutely cannot believe. For example, question 23 asks "Jacobson CANNOT swim which of the following laps?" I chose choice 3, lap 3, but looking at my diagram, I have NO idea why. Question 20 places him in lap 3 (indirectly) and I have him next to the line for #23 in my diagram as being able to be in lap 3. If anyone has any, ANY idea what I can do to fix my absolute fear of logic games please let me know. I think at this point I have some serious mental block / hatred of it that's causing me to really screw it up, and I only have two months left.

M.M.
Posts: 381
Joined: Mon Sep 06, 2010 5:16 pm

Re: I'm starting to lose it because of LG

Postby M.M. » Mon Jul 30, 2012 2:24 am

I don't want to sound dramatic, and it feels like every time I post on here I'm freaking out, but I'm really tired of being frustrated by these things. I hit this week with the mentality of really wanting to get into them so I could conquer them and feel good about it, and got the exact opposite.

For now I'll just keep working and re-working games and try to stay positive about it while I wait for the wisdom of TLS :!:

User avatar
Scotusnerd
Posts: 813
Joined: Sat Oct 01, 2011 7:36 pm

Re: I'm starting to lose it because of LG

Postby Scotusnerd » Mon Jul 30, 2012 2:50 am

Your problem is your ego. I know it feels like the end of the world, but you need to accept that you are a certain way right now, and that you are at a certain skill level with games. You need to take a break from it and let yourself cool off. Take a few days to a week off. When you get back to it, you need approach it in a fresh way. You need to disassociate yourself from the old you where you're so frustrated with games. Otherwise, you'll just sit there and get frustrated and miserable again, which is a waste of time.

You will not be able to make progress until you can get over this issue. Don't keep beating your head against the wall. I can't give you specific ideas for what to change, because I'm not you. Good luck.

Don't expect yourself to make impossible improvements, or hold yourself to a standard that you clearly aren't meeting. If you are not at a certain point, lower your expectations, than work in small chunks until you get to that certain point. You aren't doing yourself any favors by beating yourself up needlessly.

M.M.
Posts: 381
Joined: Mon Sep 06, 2010 5:16 pm

Re: I'm starting to lose it because of LG

Postby M.M. » Mon Jul 30, 2012 3:09 am

Scotusnerd wrote:Your problem is your ego. I know it feels like the end of the world, but you need to accept that you are a certain way right now, and that you are at a certain skill level with games. You need to take a break from it and let yourself cool off. Take a few days to a week off. When you get back to it, you need approach it in a fresh way. You need to disassociate yourself from the old you where you're so frustrated with games. Otherwise, you'll just sit there and get frustrated and miserable again, which is a waste of time.

But I did do that after I finished my course... and I'm running out of time.

You will not be able to make progress until you can get over this issue. Don't keep beating your head against the wall. I can't give you specific ideas for what to change, because I'm not you. Good luck.

Don't expect yourself to make impossible improvements, or hold yourself to a standard that you clearly aren't meeting. If you are not at a certain point, lower your expectations, than work in small chunks until you get to that certain point. You aren't doing yourself any favors by beating yourself up needlessly.

That's what I'm doing, though ... I first set out to master Basic Linear and can't even do that. I am sure as hell not going to give up on even mastering the easiest of games, but it's seriously discouraging and if I can't even seem to do that, what does that say?




Bolded ... I've already done most of this and am still running into the same problems. Just did the game on PT 27 Game 1, missed the grab a rule / acceptability question ... not sure why at all though.. don't get me wrong I'm happy I went only -1 but really? Missing the easiest question type on one of the easiest games? What a joke ..

User avatar
Systematic1
Posts: 237
Joined: Sun Feb 19, 2012 5:14 pm

Re: I'm starting to lose it because of LG

Postby Systematic1 » Mon Jul 30, 2012 3:12 am

LGB

M.M.
Posts: 381
Joined: Mon Sep 06, 2010 5:16 pm

Re: I'm starting to lose it because of LG

Postby M.M. » Mon Jul 30, 2012 3:21 am

Systematic1 wrote:LGB


OP wrote:recently picked up the LG bible, and began working on Basic Linear games again



????

User avatar
Systematic1
Posts: 237
Joined: Sun Feb 19, 2012 5:14 pm

Re: I'm starting to lose it because of LG

Postby Systematic1 » Mon Jul 30, 2012 3:28 am

RC fail on my part. Yea, read that, you'll be good. And have confidence. Assuming you are taking in Oct., you have plenty of time to improve.

Bgibbs
Posts: 52
Joined: Wed Feb 15, 2012 12:07 am

Re: I'm starting to lose it because of LG

Postby Bgibbs » Mon Jul 30, 2012 3:31 am

"That's what I'm doing, though ... I first set out to master Basic Linear and can't even do that. I am sure as hell not going to give up on even mastering the easiest of games, but it's seriously discouraging and if I can't even seem to do that, what does that say?"

That you need to, as scotus said, "lower your expectations, than work in small chunks until you get to that certain point." You're getting frustrated because you think you should be better at logic games than you are, while the fact remains that you struggle with them. Accept that and keep working at it. You have two months to master logic games, you'll be fine...unless you keep beating yourself up over it.

User avatar
Scotusnerd
Posts: 813
Joined: Sat Oct 01, 2011 7:36 pm

Re: I'm starting to lose it because of LG

Postby Scotusnerd » Mon Jul 30, 2012 7:56 am

M.M. wrote:Bolded ... I've already done most of this and am still running into the same problems. Just did the game on PT 27 Game 1, missed the grab a rule / acceptability question ... not sure why at all though.. don't get me wrong I'm happy I went only -1 but really? Missing the easiest question type on one of the easiest games? What a joke ..


Stop beating yourself up. It's a waste of time. Sit out, chill out and figure out a way to deal with the histrionics. You won't make progress until you do. Stop working on these for a few days.

If you're an athlete and you can't quite run a mile in 18:00, do you get frustrated and quit? Hell no. You figure out what you can do to improve (endurance, work on speed drills, or just practice that run a few days. The method is less important than the attitude.) If you are a musician, and you can't get a certain section of music, you don't yell it into submission. You don't beat yourself up until it works (some try to, but it's horribly unhealthy and doesn't work), you practice it slowly until you can do the passage slow. Then you speed it up until you can do it at speed. You have to break it down.

You obviously want this bad, and that's admirable. You need to want to go to law school and do well on the LSAT to achieve a high score. Motivation is required to score in the top 10% of this test. But motivation should not be confused with a game plan, or with a method to achieve a goal. It can't replace solid planning and an acknowledgement of your real skills, not what you think they 'should be'.

Bgibbs
Posts: 52
Joined: Wed Feb 15, 2012 12:07 am

Re: I'm starting to lose it because of LG

Postby Bgibbs » Mon Jul 30, 2012 8:10 am

Scotusnerd wrote:
If you're an athlete and you can't quite run a mile in 18:00, do you get frustrated and quit? Hell no. You figure out what you can do to improve (endurance, work on speed drills, or just practice that run a few days. The method is less important than the attitude.)


I would hardly call that person an athlete, but good analogy nonetheless.

noggo10
Posts: 63
Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2011 11:23 am

Re: I'm starting to lose it because of LG

Postby noggo10 » Mon Jul 30, 2012 8:41 am

I was in a similar spot last year and I ended up doing fine on games. I'd say 2 things:

1). Just take a week off from prep and relax. Go to the beach, work out, watch movies, go get drunk, go to work and just forget about it if you're working, etc. This worked wonders for me.

2). Come back fresh and spend a full week just on LGB with no full prep tests. Do the whole thing not just linear. Maybe linear just isn't your thing.

This is what worked for me at least. Just remember to be calm because stressing doesn't help. A few days before the October test I went like -7 or -8 on the December 2010 games (super hard PT in my opinion) and was so upset I started drinking at like 10am. Needless to say that did not solve anything. A close friend talked to me to put things in perspective, I chilled out, went 20/23 on test day and everything worked out fine.

Best of luck with this!

User avatar
Scotusnerd
Posts: 813
Joined: Sat Oct 01, 2011 7:36 pm

Re: I'm starting to lose it because of LG

Postby Scotusnerd » Mon Jul 30, 2012 8:57 am

Bgibbs wrote:
Scotusnerd wrote:
If you're an athlete and you can't quite run a mile in 18:00, do you get frustrated and quit? Hell no. You figure out what you can do to improve (endurance, work on speed drills, or just practice that run a few days. The method is less important than the attitude.)


I would hardly call that person an athlete, but good analogy nonetheless.


Three miles in 18:00, sorry. I've had my head up Marine PFT qualifications lately. :)

User avatar
specialsnowflake
Posts: 97
Joined: Fri Feb 24, 2012 9:48 am

Re: I'm starting to lose it because of LG

Postby specialsnowflake » Mon Jul 30, 2012 9:01 am

keep your head up man. the good news is that games is the easiest to improve and you have TONS of time to make that improvement happen before october! check out the Logic Game Bible from powerscore. It will help a bunch!

User avatar
Br3v
Posts: 4174
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2011 7:18 pm

Re: I'm starting to lose it because of LG

Postby Br3v » Mon Jul 30, 2012 9:02 am

The answer is what you think it is, keep doing games

User avatar
mindarmed
Posts: 959
Joined: Sun May 27, 2012 2:16 pm

Re: I'm starting to lose it because of LG

Postby mindarmed » Mon Jul 30, 2012 11:08 am

OP, purchase some Sudoku books. You need to improve your spatial intelligence.

User avatar
PeanutsNJam
Posts: 3699
Joined: Tue Jul 10, 2012 1:57 pm

Re: I'm starting to lose it because of LG

Postby PeanutsNJam » Mon Jul 30, 2012 11:15 am

Actually, before learning LG I had no idea how to do sudoku (knew the rules). Now that I can ace LG, I can do some of the much harder sudoku (that I wouldn't even be able to get started on before). I think there's some correlation (or even a causal relationship).

bp shinners
Posts: 3091
Joined: Wed Mar 16, 2011 7:05 pm

Re: I'm starting to lose it because of LG

Postby bp shinners » Mon Jul 30, 2012 11:35 am

M.M. wrote:I have him next to the line for #23 in my diagram as being able to be in lap 3.


Are you drawing out all the places where someone can go in your diagrams? That seems like a huge time expenditure that is unnecessary. What's important in LGs is where people can't go, because you should think of games as anything being possible until a rule tells you it isn't. Restrictions are the name of the game, not allowances.

User avatar
PeanutsNJam
Posts: 3699
Joined: Tue Jul 10, 2012 1:57 pm

Re: I'm starting to lose it because of LG

Postby PeanutsNJam » Mon Jul 30, 2012 12:11 pm

bp shinners wrote:
M.M. wrote:I have him next to the line for #23 in my diagram as being able to be in lap 3.


Are you drawing out all the places where someone can go in your diagrams? That seems like a huge time expenditure that is unnecessary. What's important in LGs is where people can't go, because you should think of games as anything being possible until a rule tells you it isn't. Restrictions are the name of the game, not allowances.


It's okay to point out where people can go only if that "can" is limited to one or two spots. For example, you have a lot of situations where A and B have to be next to each other, but there are only two (or three) orientations where this is possible. Note that, and you can instantly eliminate at least 2 answer choices on many questions. Sometimes, that deduction will straight up lead you to the right answer.

bp shinners
Posts: 3091
Joined: Wed Mar 16, 2011 7:05 pm

Re: I'm starting to lose it because of LG

Postby bp shinners » Mon Jul 30, 2012 1:45 pm

PeanutsNJam wrote:
bp shinners wrote:
M.M. wrote:I have him next to the line for #23 in my diagram as being able to be in lap 3.


Are you drawing out all the places where someone can go in your diagrams? That seems like a huge time expenditure that is unnecessary. What's important in LGs is where people can't go, because you should think of games as anything being possible until a rule tells you it isn't. Restrictions are the name of the game, not allowances.


It's okay to point out where people can go only if that "can" is limited to one or two spots. For example, you have a lot of situations where A and B have to be next to each other, but there are only two (or three) orientations where this is possible. Note that, and you can instantly eliminate at least 2 answer choices on many questions. Sometimes, that deduction will straight up lead you to the right answer.


If the 'can' is limited to 1 spot, then it's a 'must' go. If it's two spots, then I'd draw an arch. However, those are the exceptions. If you're trying to write out the list of possibilities for everyone, that's endless.

And if there's a block that can only go in 2-3 orientations, it's time to draw out some scenarios.

So yes, you're right, but I think it's more useful to think of everything as where people can't go, rather than where they can go. Your default should be that anyone can go anywhere, and you limit from there.

hblake
Posts: 44
Joined: Sun Jul 15, 2012 9:31 am

Re: I'm starting to lose it because of LG

Postby hblake » Mon Jul 30, 2012 5:55 pm

How would you diagram this LG?

--ImageRemoved--

User avatar
flem
Posts: 12949
Joined: Mon Oct 10, 2011 6:44 pm

Re: I'm starting to lose it because of LG

Postby flem » Mon Jul 30, 2012 6:02 pm

hblake wrote:How would you diagram this LG?

--ImageRemoved--


Immediately note the binary nature of the game - everything is either in 1 or 2, therefore if it's not in 2, it's in 1, and vice versa.

G/M _ _ _
Group 1

M/G _ _ _
Group 2

Rule 1) [FJ]

Rule 2) [GM] (also place G/M) split block in each group

Rule 3) If H1 ---> L1; if L2 ---> H2 (NOTE, this does not mean they are always together, L could be in 1 and H could be in 2)

Rule 4) If N2 ---> G1; if G2 ---> N1 (note the overlap between the above split block - this would fill up a good portion of the game)

Good?

hblake
Posts: 44
Joined: Sun Jul 15, 2012 9:31 am

Re: I'm starting to lose it because of LG

Postby hblake » Mon Jul 30, 2012 6:41 pm

.
Last edited by hblake on Sun Sep 02, 2012 10:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.

hblake
Posts: 44
Joined: Sun Jul 15, 2012 9:31 am

Re: I'm starting to lose it because of LG

Postby hblake » Mon Jul 30, 2012 6:53 pm

Here's what I came up with.

--ImageRemoved--

The thing is, it didn't help me answer the questions. For example:

Question 4: If L and M are in group 2, then a person who could be assigned either to group 1 or, alternatively, to group 2 is

A) F
B) G
C) H
D) J
E) K

The reason I am posting this example is because, although my diagram seemed sufficient, I could not visualize the connections. This example is, to me, the epitome of the type that I find too abstract, for some reason, to actually answer at all, even with unlimited time, almost (I did answer it, eventually). The next Logic Game in the PT was relatively easy, which seemed really weird, seeing as this series of questions was just so impossible-seeming.

How do you VISUALIZE these letter-combinations?
Last edited by hblake on Sun Sep 02, 2012 10:08 pm, edited 2 times in total.

tomwatts
Posts: 1551
Joined: Wed Sep 16, 2009 12:01 am

Re: I'm starting to lose it because of LG

Postby tomwatts » Mon Jul 30, 2012 7:46 pm

M.M. wrote:I can't even get the simplest games. I did a Princeton Review course and for a while I was doing maybe 2.5 games a section with ~80% accuracy, leaving me with a score of 164. I finished the course and mistakenly slowed down my studying, recently picked up the LG bible, and began working on Basic Linear games again, after deciding I'd spend a while trying to master games by type as they got harder and harder and then work on doing PTs and fine tuning with args and RC.

I started doing them, and I am sitting here baffled at how TERRIBLE I am at them, no matter what I do. I have pushed myself to the point of rage multiple times doing these and even when I was in my PR course I picked them up very slowly. I just did the basic linear on PT 37 Game 4, ordering swimmers by the laps they do - a game I did months ago in my PR course - and I got 3/6 wrong ... I have no idea how you guys are supposed to help but this is obviously not working, and it's really, really getting to me. I go -1-2 per section on args and ~-4 on RC, and LG is absolutely destroying my score. I posted a thread here a week or two ago about not knowing what to do to start studying, now I have a plan but once again it seems like I really just can't wrap my head around LG. I have no idea why; I make mistakes that I absolutely cannot believe. For example, question 23 asks "Jacobson CANNOT swim which of the following laps?" I chose choice 3, lap 3, but looking at my diagram, I have NO idea why. Question 20 places him in lap 3 (indirectly) and I have him next to the line for #23 in my diagram as being able to be in lap 3. If anyone has any, ANY idea what I can do to fix my absolute fear of logic games please let me know. I think at this point I have some serious mental block / hatred of it that's causing me to really screw it up, and I only have two months left.

You sound as though you're going too fast. There's no reason to get anywhere near this many games questions wrong, and there's no reason to make these kinds of silly mistakes, unless you're going faster than you can go right now.

To check if I'm right... are you timing yourself on these games? If so, have you tried doing a game taking all the time in the world? You need to separate out your fundamental understanding problems from your pacing problems. If you can't do... eh, I usually say 80% or better untimed, but in games I'm tempted to say 90% or better untimed... then you don't really understand games yet and you have no business timing yourself.

On the other hand, if you can do them untimed, but you're having trouble timed, then you're trying to speed up too quickly. Figure out your natural (untimed) pace right now, and try to build it gradually. If that means doing a game in 15 minutes and trying to work up to doing a game in 14 minutes, then do it. You're not going to get there in one huge leap.

User avatar
flem
Posts: 12949
Joined: Mon Oct 10, 2011 6:44 pm

Re: I'm starting to lose it because of LG

Postby flem » Mon Jul 30, 2012 7:54 pm

hblake wrote:How do you VISUALIZE these letter-combinations?


Exactly like I did above. Draw a block for FJ. I wouldn't write the explanations (the stuff in parentheses) but would write everything else.

I'll answer in more detail when I have more time (eg, tomorrow). Cool?

Also, which test is this from? I'll do this game with/for you tomorrow with explanations if you'd like.




Return to “LSAT Prep and Discussion Forum”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Vino.Veritas and 6 guests