how does society view the lsat?

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dowu
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Re: how does society view the lsat?

Postby dowu » Mon Jul 30, 2012 5:45 pm

ru2486 wrote:my first IBTL post!



lol

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PeanutsNJam
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Re: how does society view the lsat?

Postby PeanutsNJam » Tue Jul 31, 2012 5:46 pm

Bumping so OP's shame never goes away

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05062014
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Re: how does society view the lsat?

Postby 05062014 » Tue Jul 31, 2012 6:51 pm

What is shame?

-Abdistotle

splitmuch
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Re: how does society view the lsat?

Postby splitmuch » Tue Jul 31, 2012 6:55 pm

abdistotle wrote:yesterday, while getting stitches on my finger at the local ER (sliced my finger open fixing my AC), the ER surgeon asked me what I was doing all summer. I told her I was studying for the LSAT and she asked me what my plans were if the LSAT did not work out. On other occasions, friends who were not studying for the LSAT reacted relatively dramatically when they heard I was studying for the LSAT, as if it was an exam to fear. Some say they're glad they pursued social science endeavors post-graduation instead of putting themselves through LSAT prep. People not studying for the test clearly respect it (aside from a few pre-med kids trying to boast about the difficulty of the rote memorization required to do well on the MCAT).

All I have are PT scores which I do take with a large grain of salt. However, the way the surgeon and my friends view the LSAT makes it seem as if succeeding on test day is an accomplishment that only a few can achieve, and even then, that it is far from a sure thing. Maybe I just come off as unintelligent, but I don't think that is it. Other than the lsat, no other pursuit of mine has really been viewed so critically before.

When the surgeon asked me what I would do if the LSAT did not work out, it caught me by surprise. I have not considered not doing sufficiently well enough such that I look to a career outside of law. I have wanted to be a lawyer since I was a little kid. I immediately responded, "I am gonna do well enough; all that matters at this point is how well." Is this an appropriate attitude to have? I think so.

Initially, she seemed taken aback by that comment but I seemed to gain her respect as the minutes passed for saying it. Apparently she told other nurses (some very attractive ones at that) and they gave me a collective good luck studying and 'you will do great' kind of goodbye as I was leaving. I felt encouraged, but simultaneously uneasy, as if I was now destined to try to climb Mount Everest or something.

Maybe I am looking for reasons to doubt myself and that is why this experience is somewhat getting to me. The plus side is that the fact that people view this exam as a huge challenge makes me feel reassured that the time spent is worth it to the outside world. This is not my sole reason for studying, but it certainly does help knowing that others can appreciate my goals, albeit in the form of fear and apprehension, lol.

So anyways, has anyone studying come across real life situations that made them view their LSAT prep efforts differently?


The mcat is more than rote memorization. It has lsat style logic and reasoning requirements plus mass amounts of rote memorization. It is orders of magnitude more difficult of a test.

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05062014
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Re: how does society view the lsat?

Postby 05062014 » Tue Jul 31, 2012 6:56 pm

Im turning 21 in a few hours

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TDragon
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Re: how does society view the lsat?

Postby TDragon » Wed Aug 01, 2012 3:57 am

abdistotle wrote:Im turning 21 in a few hours


Happy 21st BDay OP, go get drunk! Btw hope your not listening to all these people. Haters gonna hate!

hopper123
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Re: how does society view the lsat?

Postby hopper123 » Wed Aug 01, 2012 6:15 am

splitmuch wrote:
abdistotle wrote:yesterday, while getting stitches on my finger at the local ER (sliced my finger open fixing my AC), the ER surgeon asked me what I was doing all summer. I told her I was studying for the LSAT and she asked me what my plans were if the LSAT did not work out. On other occasions, friends who were not studying for the LSAT reacted relatively dramatically when they heard I was studying for the LSAT, as if it was an exam to fear. Some say they're glad they pursued social science endeavors post-graduation instead of putting themselves through LSAT prep. People not studying for the test clearly respect it (aside from a few pre-med kids trying to boast about the difficulty of the rote memorization required to do well on the MCAT).

All I have are PT scores which I do take with a large grain of salt. However, the way the surgeon and my friends view the LSAT makes it seem as if succeeding on test day is an accomplishment that only a few can achieve, and even then, that it is far from a sure thing. Maybe I just come off as unintelligent, but I don't think that is it. Other than the lsat, no other pursuit of mine has really been viewed so critically before.

When the surgeon asked me what I would do if the LSAT did not work out, it caught me by surprise. I have not considered not doing sufficiently well enough such that I look to a career outside of law. I have wanted to be a lawyer since I was a little kid. I immediately responded, "I am gonna do well enough; all that matters at this point is how well." Is this an appropriate attitude to have? I think so.

Initially, she seemed taken aback by that comment but I seemed to gain her respect as the minutes passed for saying it. Apparently she told other nurses (some very attractive ones at that) and they gave me a collective good luck studying and 'you will do great' kind of goodbye as I was leaving. I felt encouraged, but simultaneously uneasy, as if I was now destined to try to climb Mount Everest or something.

Maybe I am looking for reasons to doubt myself and that is why this experience is somewhat getting to me. The plus side is that the fact that people view this exam as a huge challenge makes me feel reassured that the time spent is worth it to the outside world. This is not my sole reason for studying, but it certainly does help knowing that others can appreciate my goals, albeit in the form of fear and apprehension, lol.

So anyways, has anyone studying come across real life situations that made them view their LSAT prep efforts differently?


The mcat is more than rote memorization. It has lsat style logic and reasoning requirements plus mass amounts of rote memorization. It is orders of magnitude more difficult of a test.


This is crazy talk. By sheer memorization you can score high on the mcat. Can't really do that on the LSAT. What lsat style logic/reasoning are you talking about? In what section of the test? Do you mean a physics formula which you can apply and something would follow logically from it? That would be nonsense. Have you read the reading comp? It's a joke compared to the lsat reading comp. Also orders of magnitude more difficult? You must really have a skewed version of things. If you were a sci major and make this claim, you are in the minority. If you are a non-sci major making this claim, you probably have some strange respect for the "difficulty" of basic science.

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Re: how does society view the lsat?

Postby sundance95 » Wed Aug 01, 2012 8:31 am

will someone please take this THREAD OUT BACK AND KILL IT[ FOR THE LOVE OF GOD

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PeanutsNJam
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Re: how does society view the lsat?

Postby PeanutsNJam » Wed Aug 01, 2012 9:27 am

All the derps in the thread:

But MCAT is sooooo much harder herpsherpderp!

splitmuch
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Re: how does society view the lsat?

Postby splitmuch » Wed Aug 01, 2012 9:55 am

hopper123 wrote:
splitmuch wrote:
abdistotle wrote:yesterday, while getting stitches on my finger at the local ER (sliced my finger open fixing my AC), the ER surgeon asked me what I was doing all summer. I told her I was studying for the LSAT and she asked me what my plans were if the LSAT did not work out. On other occasions, friends who were not studying for the LSAT reacted relatively dramatically when they heard I was studying for the LSAT, as if it was an exam to fear. Some say they're glad they pursued social science endeavors post-graduation instead of putting themselves through LSAT prep. People not studying for the test clearly respect it (aside from a few pre-med kids trying to boast about the difficulty of the rote memorization required to do well on the MCAT).

All I have are PT scores which I do take with a large grain of salt. However, the way the surgeon and my friends view the LSAT makes it seem as if succeeding on test day is an accomplishment that only a few can achieve, and even then, that it is far from a sure thing. Maybe I just come off as unintelligent, but I don't think that is it. Other than the lsat, no other pursuit of mine has really been viewed so critically before.

When the surgeon asked me what I would do if the LSAT did not work out, it caught me by surprise. I have not considered not doing sufficiently well enough such that I look to a career outside of law. I have wanted to be a lawyer since I was a little kid. I immediately responded, "I am gonna do well enough; all that matters at this point is how well." Is this an appropriate attitude to have? I think so.

Initially, she seemed taken aback by that comment but I seemed to gain her respect as the minutes passed for saying it. Apparently she told other nurses (some very attractive ones at that) and they gave me a collective good luck studying and 'you will do great' kind of goodbye as I was leaving. I felt encouraged, but simultaneously uneasy, as if I was now destined to try to climb Mount Everest or something.

Maybe I am looking for reasons to doubt myself and that is why this experience is somewhat getting to me. The plus side is that the fact that people view this exam as a huge challenge makes me feel reassured that the time spent is worth it to the outside world. This is not my sole reason for studying, but it certainly does help knowing that others can appreciate my goals, albeit in the form of fear and apprehension, lol.

So anyways, has anyone studying come across real life situations that made them view their LSAT prep efforts differently?


The mcat is more than rote memorization. It has lsat style logic and reasoning requirements plus mass amounts of rote memorization. It is orders of magnitude more difficult of a test.


This is crazy talk. By sheer memorization you can score high on the mcat. Can't really do that on the LSAT. What lsat style logic/reasoning are you talking about? In what section of the test? Do you mean a physics formula which you can apply and something would follow logically from it? That would be nonsense. Have you read the reading comp? It's a joke compared to the lsat reading comp. Also orders of magnitude more difficult? You must really have a skewed version of things. If you were a sci major and make this claim, you are in the minority. If you are a non-sci major making this claim, you probably have some strange respect for the "difficulty" of basic science.



Have yous seen the science sections? They are passage based, requiring the ability to comprehend new subjects (even one's you haven't prepped) and apply the science knowledge you have. While the reading comp section may be objectively easier (I recall them being pretty comparable but I took each last summer), I do know the curve is harsh (with at least a 1:1) correlation between missed questions and score deduction. As for "through sheer memorization one can do well on the mcat"...you do realize that through sheer doing nothing one can sit down at the LSAT and do extremely well, right?

As for my major, not sure of the relevance, I was a pre-med and econ double major.

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Re: how does society view the lsat?

Postby PeanutsNJam » Wed Aug 01, 2012 10:24 am

OK how about this, unless taken both the LSAT and the MCAT and scored over 170 on the lsat and over 33 on the MCAT, you are not allowed to make comparisons or generalizations about which one is "harder".

Seriously, this thread is like high school kids arguing about whether college level calculus is harder than college level stats.

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Re: how does society view the lsat?

Postby splitmuch » Wed Aug 01, 2012 10:45 am

PeanutsNJam wrote:OK how about this, unless taken both the LSAT and the MCAT and scored over 170 on the lsat and over 33 on the MCAT, you are not allowed to make comparisons or generalizations about which one is "harder".

Seriously, this thread is like high school kids arguing about whether college level calculus is harder than college level stats.


So my opinion is controlling? Im cool with that.

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Re: how does society view the lsat?

Postby PeanutsNJam » Wed Aug 01, 2012 11:06 am

splitmuch wrote:
PeanutsNJam wrote:OK how about this, unless taken both the LSAT and the MCAT and scored over 170 on the lsat and over 33 on the MCAT, you are not allowed to make comparisons or generalizations about which one is "harder".

Seriously, this thread is like high school kids arguing about whether college level calculus is harder than college level stats.


So my opinion is controlling? Im cool with that.


You score somewhere around the 95th percentile in both tests then you sure as hell know better than I do which test is harder.

I'm also not sure what you mean by "controlling"... as in, you did manage to achieve this (something I don't believe to be true without proof) and therefore your opinion is "authoritative"?

I could say I got a 180 on the LSAT, a 40 on the MCAT, have a MD/PhD and a JD, am only 28 years old, and own a mansion in the Hamptons. This is the internet.

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Re: how does society view the lsat?

Postby splitmuch » Wed Aug 01, 2012 11:18 am

PeanutsNJam wrote:
splitmuch wrote:
PeanutsNJam wrote:OK how about this, unless taken both the LSAT and the MCAT and scored over 170 on the lsat and over 33 on the MCAT, you are not allowed to make comparisons or generalizations about which one is "harder".

Seriously, this thread is like high school kids arguing about whether college level calculus is harder than college level stats.


So my opinion is controlling? Im cool with that.


You score somewhere around the 90th percentile in both tests then you sure as hell know better than I do which test is harder.

I'm also not sure what you mean by "controlling"... as in, you did manage to achieve this (something I don't believe to be true without proof) and therefore your opinion is "authoritative"?


The controlling thing was me making a dickish joke given that I meet your metric (178 and 39). As for proof, Im not sure what you expect me to put on a message board. That said, I really have no need to make this up for a random internet discussion. Like I mentioned, I dont actually think my opinion is authoritative, just a probative perspective.

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Re: how does society view the lsat?

Postby junibus » Wed Aug 01, 2012 5:49 pm

LOL

Apparently she told other nurses (some very attractive ones at that) and they gave me a collective good luck studying and 'you will do great' kind of goodbye as I was leaving.


Thats like an ending part of vision quest or a farewell of Yoda to Luke who is about to take up on a dangerous adventure.
I need some encouragement like that...

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Re: how does society view the lsat?

Postby spleenworship » Wed Aug 01, 2012 5:59 pm

sundance95 wrote:will someone please take this THREAD OUT BACK AND KILL IT[ FOR THE LOVE OF GOD

rglifberg
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Re: how does society view the lsat?

Postby rglifberg » Wed Aug 01, 2012 7:22 pm

I'm predicting a 145 for the OP.

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JazzOne
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Re: how does society view the lsat?

Postby JazzOne » Wed Aug 01, 2012 8:55 pm

splitmuch wrote:Have yous seen the science sections? They are passage based, requiring the ability to comprehend new subjects (even one's you haven't prepped) and apply the science knowledge you have.

A prepared MCAT tester will not encounter any "new subjects" in the science sections.

splitmuch wrote:While the reading comp section may be objectively easier (I recall them being pretty comparable but I took each last summer), I do know the curve is harsh (with at least a 1:1) correlation between missed questions and score deduction.

There are only 15 possible scores for Verbal Reasoning, but there are more than 15 questions on a VR section.

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Re: how does society view the lsat?

Postby splitmuch » Wed Aug 01, 2012 9:17 pm

JazzOne wrote:
splitmuch wrote:Have yous seen the science sections? They are passage based, requiring the ability to comprehend new subjects (even one's you haven't prepped) and apply the science knowledge you have.

A prepared MCAT tester will not encounter any "new subjects" in the science sections.

splitmuch wrote:While the reading comp section may be objectively easier (I recall them being pretty comparable but I took each last summer), I do know the curve is harsh (with at least a 1:1) correlation between missed questions and score deduction.

There are only 15 possible scores for Verbal Reasoning, but there are more than 15 questions on a VR section.


1. One example, from my physics section there was a passage about lasers that was in no prep material...but the key was that the actual questions related to the optics material, it was just getting rid of the extraneous material and focusing on the relevant portions....which is, in my opinion, LSAT-like.

2. You are right, I should have made clear I meant "on the high end." I missed two questions and got a 13 on the reading section.

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Eberry
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Re: how does society view the lsat?

Postby Eberry » Thu Aug 02, 2012 10:34 am

sundance95 wrote:will someone please take this THREAD OUT BACK AND KILL IT[ FOR THE LOVE OF GOD

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Re: how does society view the lsat?

Postby PeanutsNJam » Thu Aug 02, 2012 10:43 am

--ImageRemoved--

linquest
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Re: how does society view the lsat?

Postby linquest » Wed Aug 08, 2012 2:15 am

spleenworship wrote:
There is one law school that doesn't cap and certainly doesn't curve. So no, I won't necessarily be miserable in law school. And yes, I still stand by the idea that capping the number of As handed out is stupid.


Jazz is right. Apart from Yale, even Northeastern has what is effectively a curve with keywords in their notes at the end of the semester. [/quote]

Northeastern doesn't curve. Profs are not required to use "buzzwords" ("keywords") on evaluations ("notes"), and there is no limit on the number of a certain buzzword a prof can give out to each class. i.e. everyone in a class might get "Overall, excellent exam" with additional buzzword(s) describing specific parts of the exam or some other assignment

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Re: how does society view the lsat?

Postby JohnV » Wed Aug 08, 2012 12:45 pm

hibiki wrote:I'm sorry, but people think that the LSAT and MCAT are comparable? This is pretty funny. :lol: I know a lot of people struggle getting their 170+ or 175+ score, but I have a hard time believing that people can make these comparisons earnestly. I've never looked at the MCAT and I'm certain it is more difficult than the LSAT.


If this post is serious, it's my favorite post of the thread. "I have no idea what I'm talking about, but I'm sure I'm right." Brilliant.

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Re: how does society view the lsat?

Postby spleenworship » Wed Aug 08, 2012 1:22 pm

linquest wrote:
spleenworship wrote:
There is one law school that doesn't cap and certainly doesn't curve. So no, I won't necessarily be miserable in law school. And yes, I still stand by the idea that capping the number of As handed out is stupid.


Jazz is right. Apart from Yale, even Northeastern has what is effectively a curve with keywords in their notes at the end of the semester.


Northeastern doesn't curve. Profs are not required to use "buzzwords" ("keywords") on evaluations ("notes"), and there is no limit on the number of a certain buzzword a prof can give out to each class. i.e. everyone in a class might get "Overall, excellent exam" with additional buzzword(s) describing specific parts of the exam or some other assignment[/quote]

No. If 40 people get "overall, excellent exam" then that's a B and the employers will look for other buzz words to figure out who the A's are.

Don't be dense. Everyone except Yale curves in some way, even if the curve is applied by outside sources such as employers.

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Re: how does society view the lsat?

Postby spleenworship » Wed Aug 08, 2012 1:22 pm

JohnV wrote:
hibiki wrote:I'm sorry, but people think that the LSAT and MCAT are comparable? This is pretty funny. :lol: I know a lot of people struggle getting their 170+ or 175+ score, but I have a hard time believing that people can make these comparisons earnestly. I've never looked at the MCAT and I'm certain it is more difficult than the LSAT.


If this post is serious, it's my favorite post of the thread. "I have no idea what I'm talking about, but I'm sure I'm right." Brilliant.



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