So I bombed the first diagnostic, BIG TIME!

Ende
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So I bombed the first diagnostic, BIG TIME!

Postby Ende » Sat Jul 21, 2012 3:30 pm

Today was diagnostic 1, and in all honesty, I got quite a rude awakening.

Lower than a 170, 160,150,140,130...yea, that bad.

I couldn't even finish 1 section in the allocated time, so I guessed on them, as opposed to leaving it blank.


Background: Took no classes this summer on purpose to be well rested for this course, as well as the fall semester. By the time I got to section 4, I was so mentally exhausted I couldn't even do 1 question. My brain felt like complete mush. I went to bed early last night and woke up early, hit the gym so I would be ready by the 10:00am class.

I went and talked to the instructor, and he told me to calm down, and he's going to show us. Lesson 1 starts Monday. I asked him if there's anything I should do between now and then, and he said "no".

I feel like such a loser right now. I know its not the day before the real LSAT, but still, I feel horrible.

I don't even know where to start. This is what I want to do, and I refuse to give up!! There's no way in hell I'm going to.

Just looking for people with experience with this.

Thanks,

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lnoy
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Re: So I bombed the first diagnostic, BIG TIME!

Postby lnoy » Sat Jul 21, 2012 3:54 pm

Ende wrote:
I couldn't even finish 1 section in the allocated time, so I guessed on them, as opposed to leaving it blank.



You don't want to leave anything blank! Guess if your about to run out of time or narrow down the answers then guess. Also you should start by completing all the sections without timing yourself to start.

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facile princeps
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Re: So I bombed the first diagnostic, BIG TIME!

Postby facile princeps » Sat Jul 21, 2012 3:54 pm

LOL @ timing a diagnostic. Dude, you're supposed to do it untimed.

edit: kinda got scooped there

Ende
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Re: So I bombed the first diagnostic, BIG TIME!

Postby Ende » Sat Jul 21, 2012 3:57 pm

facile princeps wrote:LOL @ timing a diagnostic. Dude, you're supposed to do it untimed.

edit: kinda got scooped there



This was the first day of the course, and it was timed. Supposedly to provide a "benchmark".

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facile princeps
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Re: So I bombed the first diagnostic, BIG TIME!

Postby facile princeps » Sat Jul 21, 2012 4:00 pm

Really? Well, i took the free one from LSAC's web site without a course. So, i guess that's different. Most people would tell you to work on accuracy first, then time. You have nothing to be worried about (yet).

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05062014
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Re: So I bombed the first diagnostic, BIG TIME!

Postby 05062014 » Sat Jul 21, 2012 4:01 pm

You will be pleasantly surprised in the coming weeks. I bet your score rises at least 25 points, if not 35 before october.

Ende
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Re: So I bombed the first diagnostic, BIG TIME!

Postby Ende » Sat Jul 21, 2012 4:20 pm

Wormfather wrote:
Ende wrote:Today was diagnostic 1, and in all honesty, I got quite a rude awakening.

Lower than a 170, 160,150,140,130...yea, that bad.

I couldn't even finish 1 section in the allocated time, so I guessed on them, as opposed to leaving it blank.


Background: Took no classes this summer on purpose to be well rested for this course, as well as the fall semester. By the time I got to section 4, I was so mentally exhausted I couldn't even do 1 question. My brain felt like complete mush. I went to bed early last night and woke up early, hit the gym so I would be ready by the 10:00am class.

I went and talked to the instructor, and he told me to calm down, and he's going to show us. Lesson 1 starts Monday. I asked him if there's anything I should do between now and then, and he said "no".

I feel like such a loser right now. I know its not the day before the real LSAT, but still, I feel horrible.

I don't even know where to start. This is what I want to do, and I refuse to give up!! There's no way in hell I'm going to.

Just looking for people with experience with this.

Thanks,



After you're second/third test bumps you up to a 150 don't get complacent, you're going to have to keep busting you're but if you want to get to 170land. I say this knowing full well that you're going to improve tremendously.

This test tests how well you know the test along with a few other things, trust me.

How do I know you're going to improve? 120somethings dont know how to use computers or type in complete sentences...you can obviously do both.

Also 130somethings dont find their way to TLS.

/broadsweepingstatementslikleytoangersomepeople


I have to get to 170land....

I'm shocked you're even saying this.

Ende
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Re: So I bombed the first diagnostic, BIG TIME!

Postby Ende » Sat Jul 21, 2012 4:23 pm

What really is puzzling me is everyone is telling me to "relax"..I don't know how under these circumstances.

All I want to do is study. Maybe give myself the rest of the day off and retake tomorrow? I don't know.

03152016
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Re: So I bombed the first diagnostic, BIG TIME!

Postby 03152016 » Sat Jul 21, 2012 4:29 pm

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Last edited by 03152016 on Tue Mar 15, 2016 3:06 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Nova
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Re: So I bombed the first diagnostic, BIG TIME!

Postby Nova » Sat Jul 21, 2012 4:37 pm

Last edited by Nova on Sat Jul 21, 2012 4:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Ende
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Re: So I bombed the first diagnostic, BIG TIME!

Postby Ende » Sat Jul 21, 2012 4:38 pm

Max324 wrote:Work hard, do the homework, and you'll probably be fine. Just wondering -- was the diagnostic an actual, official PT? Did it have a PT number at the beginning?


Yes, this was the October 2010 LSAT.

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Nova
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Re: So I bombed the first diagnostic, BIG TIME!

Postby Nova » Sat Jul 21, 2012 4:40 pm

You probably wont peak by Oct, if that is your goal. Be prepared to continue studying for Dec.

03152016
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Re: So I bombed the first diagnostic, BIG TIME!

Postby 03152016 » Sat Jul 21, 2012 4:45 pm

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Last edited by 03152016 on Tue Mar 15, 2016 3:06 am, edited 1 time in total.

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dingbat
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Re: So I bombed the first diagnostic, BIG TIME!

Postby dingbat » Sat Jul 21, 2012 4:51 pm

Ende wrote:
facile princeps wrote:LOL @ timing a diagnostic. Dude, you're supposed to do it untimed.

edit: kinda got scooped there



This was the first day of the course, and it was timed. Supposedly to provide a "benchmark".

No, it's supposed to give you a bad score so that you have a big improvement by the end so
A) you feel good about yourself,
B) you're likely to recommend the course to others,
C) they can say their students improve by X points (or some similar claim)
D) all of the above
E) none of the above

Ende
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Re: So I bombed the first diagnostic, BIG TIME!

Postby Ende » Sat Jul 21, 2012 5:17 pm

Max324 wrote:
Ende wrote:
Max324 wrote:Work hard, do the homework, and you'll probably be fine. Just wondering -- was the diagnostic an actual, official PT? Did it have a PT number at the beginning?


Yes, this was the October 2010 LSAT.

Gotcha. What course are you taking, if you don't mind me asking?



I am taking the Testmasters course.

I also have "10 actual tests", "10 more actual" and "39-45 LSATS". Also, I do have the number of an LSAT tutor here in my area. A friend, who paid him, had success.

So, I know I have all the right tools. Plus I'm extremely persistent an driven. I'm not a lazy guy, and I don't think this is a laughing matter.

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TopHatToad
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Re: So I bombed the first diagnostic, BIG TIME!

Postby TopHatToad » Sat Jul 21, 2012 5:28 pm

Nova wrote:You probably wont peak by Oct, if that is your goal. Be prepared to continue studying for Dec.


This is credited. You have a long climb ahead of you, but it isn't insurmountable. Take the TM course and reevaluate afterwards, but I suspect that following it up with self-study afterwards would be your best bet. Good luck!

JohnV
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Re: So I bombed the first diagnostic, BIG TIME!

Postby JohnV » Sat Jul 21, 2012 5:28 pm

Why is everyone saying to do the diagnostic untimed? I did my diagnostic timed. But I also allowed myself to finish the passages after time ran out, so I had 2 diagnostics I guess.

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theprophet89
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Re: So I bombed the first diagnostic, BIG TIME!

Postby theprophet89 » Sun Jul 22, 2012 2:17 am

JohnV wrote:Why is everyone saying to do the diagnostic untimed? I did my diagnostic timed.


This. An untimed diagnostic isn't worth anything.

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crumpetsandtea
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Re: So I bombed the first diagnostic, BIG TIME!

Postby crumpetsandtea » Sun Jul 22, 2012 2:56 am

theprophet89 wrote:
JohnV wrote:Why is everyone saying to do the diagnostic untimed? I did my diagnostic timed.


This. An untimed diagnostic isn't worth anything.

+1. When it comes to gauging your ability to do the test without studying, doing it timed is TCR. In fact, doing ANY PTs untimed is a waste of a PT and absolutely useless. If you're doing anything untimed, it should be drills. Work on accuracy via drilling first, then timing (also via drilling), and THEN do PTs timed. Once you have a good grasp of normal timing on a PT, you should be using your last PTs to do tests with even less time on the clock (ie: 30 minute sections or even 25 minute sections) to give you an extra edge on test day.

OP is nowhere near that stage yet, though, so I'd suggest buying the Powerscore Bibles and working through them alongside your TM class. Since you're starting so low, you should see a huge improvement quite rapidly as you begin to understand the tactics of mastering the LSAT, but once you hit ~150-160 things will get a lot harder and you'll have to be much smarter about studying. It's going to be an uphill battle getting to a 17X, but I wish you the best of luck (: If you have any questions, you're welcome to PM me. I'm not an expert but I'm funemployed so I have lots of time on my hands. :P

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facile princeps
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Re: So I bombed the first diagnostic, BIG TIME!

Postby facile princeps » Sun Jul 22, 2012 12:51 pm

I was under the impression that taking your diagnostic test is to gauge how much of the test you understand conceptually. The LSAT has a median score of around 151 for people who [i assume] have prepped for it. To take a timed PT before attempting any kind of preparation is almost suicide and may actually be useless. You'll end up guessing a lot to keep within the time constraint and you may tell yourself you wouldn't have gotten so many wrong if you had enough time. Thus, you really didn't even know for sure whether or not, or just how much of the test you didn't quite understand. Giving yourself enough time (nothing ridiculously generous) to go through the questions will allow you to accept that you do not understand the material you got wrong.

When i did mine, apart from the logic games where i was like "wtf is this shit?" i was almost sure i got at least 90% of the questions correct. To my surprise, i didn't. I reviewed the questions i thought i got correct and, with the exception of careless mistakes, i would have gotten them wrong even if i took a day to do each, simply because i didn't understand them. I was humbled, and i truly understood where i was. Anyhow, that's just me.

I guess my point is an initial untimed PT is not useless. Of course, if you're a genius, you'll be fine either way.

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crumpetsandtea
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Re: So I bombed the first diagnostic, BIG TIME!

Postby crumpetsandtea » Sun Jul 22, 2012 1:21 pm

facile princeps wrote:I was under the impression that taking your diagnostic test is to gauge how much of the test you understand conceptually. The LSAT has a median score of around 151 for people who [i assume] have prepped for it. To take a timed PT before attempting any kind of preparation is almost suicide and may actually be useless. You'll end up guessing a lot to keep within the time constraint and you may tell yourself you wouldn't have gotten so many wrong if you had enough time. Thus, you really didn't even know for sure whether or not, or just how much of the test you didn't quite understand. Giving yourself enough time (nothing ridiculously generous) to go through the questions will allow you to accept that you do not understand the material you got wrong.

When i did mine, apart from the logic games where i was like "wtf is this shit?" i was almost sure i got at least 90% of the questions correct. To my surprise, i didn't. I reviewed the questions i thought i got correct and, with the exception of careless mistakes, i would have gotten them wrong even if i took a day to do each, simply because i didn't understand them. I was humbled, and i truly understood where i was. Anyhow, that's just me.

I guess my point is an initial untimed PT is not useless. Of course, if you're a genius, you'll be fine either way.

I disagree. If the first test you ever take is untimed and you get a 165, for example, but with timing constraints you would have gotten a 134, you're going into your studying with an INCREDIBLY inaccurate idea of where you stand. You THINK you're a 165 shooting for 17X, but really you're a 134 shooting for a 17X, which is a fucking HUGE difference.

The biggest thing you'll learn from the situation you described in your first paragraph is this: Holy shit I need to work on my timing, this test kicked my ass. And that, to be honest, is one of the most important lessons you need to know when you start out. I mean, let's be real here, unless you're doing REALLY well in a section (-0 on your diagnostic), you'll be studying all the different section types anyway. If you can't even finish all the sections on time, you shouldn't be worrying about which section is your "trouble section" - they ALL are.

In your second paragraph, the comment about seeing your real accuracy vs your expected accuracy - you can easily have the same epiphany while doing drills after your first diagnostic. The first diag, though, is supposed to gauge how you'd do on the test if you went in cold. That is impossible to accurately do without following strict timing. Anything else and you're just duping yourself into thinking you're better prepared than you really are.

ETA: not to mention, if OP is really interested in how he'd do with unlimited timing, he can go back to the test now and do the questions that he didn't get to before and then score it that way. But again, that's for the sake of knowing, NOT as a legit PT/diagnostic. Any diagnostic where you have unlimited time means essentially nothing for gauging your skill/ability in the actual LSAT, because the time constraint is a HUGE part of what makes the test challenging in the first place.

CanadianWolf
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Re: So I bombed the first diagnostic, BIG TIME!

Postby CanadianWolf » Sun Jul 22, 2012 1:25 pm

OP: The good news is that there is only way your score can go from here. :D

The bad news, however, is that you are unlikely to qualify for a free repeat course.

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facile princeps
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Re: So I bombed the first diagnostic, BIG TIME!

Postby facile princeps » Sun Jul 22, 2012 1:52 pm

crumpetsandtea wrote:
facile princeps wrote:I was under the impression that taking your diagnostic test is to gauge how much of the test you understand conceptually. The LSAT has a median score of around 151 for people who [i assume] have prepped for it. To take a timed PT before attempting any kind of preparation is almost suicide and may actually be useless. You'll end up guessing a lot to keep within the time constraint and you may tell yourself you wouldn't have gotten so many wrong if you had enough time. Thus, you really didn't even know for sure whether or not, or just how much of the test you didn't quite understand. Giving yourself enough time (nothing ridiculously generous) to go through the questions will allow you to accept that you do not understand the material you got wrong.

When i did mine, apart from the logic games where i was like "wtf is this shit?" i was almost sure i got at least 90% of the questions correct. To my surprise, i didn't. I reviewed the questions i thought i got correct and, with the exception of careless mistakes, i would have gotten them wrong even if i took a day to do each, simply because i didn't understand them. I was humbled, and i truly understood where i was. Anyhow, that's just me.

I guess my point is an initial untimed PT is not useless. Of course, if you're a genius, you'll be fine either way.

I disagree. If the first test you ever take is untimed and you get a 165, for example, but with timing constraints you would have gotten a 134, you're going into your studying with an INCREDIBLY inaccurate idea of where you stand. You THINK you're a 165 shooting for 17X, but really you're a 134 shooting for a 17X, which is a fucking HUGE difference.

The biggest thing you'll learn from the situation you described in your first paragraph is this: Holy shit I need to work on my timing, this test kicked my ass. And that, to be honest, is one of the most important lessons you need to know when you start out. I mean, let's be real here, unless you're doing REALLY well in a section (-0 on your diagnostic), you'll be studying all the different section types anyway. If you can't even finish all the sections on time, you shouldn't be worrying about which section is your "trouble section" - they ALL are.

In your second paragraph, the comment about seeing your real accuracy vs your expected accuracy - you can easily have the same epiphany while doing drills after your first diagnostic. The first diag, though, is supposed to gauge how you'd do on the test if you went in cold. That is impossible to accurately do without following strict timing. Anything else and you're just duping yourself into thinking you're better prepared than you really are.

ETA: not to mention, if OP is really interested in how he'd do with unlimited timing, he can go back to the test now and do the questions that he didn't get to before and then score it that way. But again, that's for the sake of knowing, NOT as a legit PT/diagnostic. Any diagnostic where you have unlimited time means essentially nothing for gauging your skill/ability in the actual LSAT, because the time constraint is a HUGE part of what makes the test challenging in the first place.

Point[s] well taken.

I was realistic enough to understand that time was a huge factor. If i did a timed PT as my initial diagnostic, it wouldn't have altered my approach.

I never intended on taking the test 'cold' so it was kind of pointless for me to know what i would have scored on a real timed LSAT cold (i assumed it would have been terrible anyway). I was more interested in seeing just how much of the material i understood without anyone teaching me anything. My approach was to identify question types i didn't fully understand, understand them, practice them untimed, then finally practice them timed. It worked for me. To each his/her own, i guess.

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cc.celina
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Re: So I bombed the first diagnostic, BIG TIME!

Postby cc.celina » Sun Jul 22, 2012 2:06 pm

Can I suggest something? When I was still really slow, this is how I took my PTs: I counted down 35 minutes for each section, and when 35 minutes was up, I marked where I was on my answer sheet so I would know where I finished. I then finished the section untimed. At the end, I scored myself both timed and untimed, and kept track of both scores until I could finish all sections within the time limit. This way, I got an accurate read on how well I did on a timed test, and I also got the chance to do every question and the confidence boost of knowing I could do 10-12 points better if I just kept practicing and got a little faster. I suggest doing your diagnostic this way, and some of your early PTs this way, because it measures both your accuracy under timed conditions and your accuracy straight up.

Ende
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Re: So I bombed the first diagnostic, BIG TIME!

Postby Ende » Sun Jul 22, 2012 4:48 pm

CanadianWolf wrote:OP: The good news is that there is only way your score can go from here. :D

The bad news, however, is that you are unlikely to qualify for a free repeat course.


LOL. This is true.

And I'm ok with not qualifying for a free retake. As I stated, I had zero experience. Never did any PT, timed or not. What I have been doing is really just research (ie what is it? how can it help me? how can it hurt me? general stuff).

I feel a lot better today. Every person I talked to yesterday pretty much said the same thing..."bro, relax".

I took the teachers suggestion and did nothing. I opened lesson one in TM and lightly glanced at it, no work though.

What I am going to do is take the full TM course on top of putting in close to 40 hours a week of studying.

The last diagnostic is October 3rd. If I'm not where I want to be, I will delay taking the LSAT for December and continue on.

I believe I can get a very good grade which will keep me competitive with other applications.




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