25/75 percentiles

josemnz83
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25/75 percentiles

Postby josemnz83 » Fri Jul 20, 2012 12:23 am

Can someone please explain what that means? If a school has a 157/163 LSAT percentile, does that mean that most students get a 163?

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Greenandgold
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Re: 25/75 percentiles

Postby Greenandgold » Fri Jul 20, 2012 12:25 am

josemnz83 wrote:Can someone please explain what that means? If a school has a 157/163 LSAT percentile, does that mean that most students get a 163?


It means that 25% of students have below a 157 and 75% of students have below a 163

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rinkrat19
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Re: 25/75 percentiles

Postby rinkrat19 » Fri Jul 20, 2012 12:26 am

A score percentile is the percentage of the entering class that scored lower than that. So if the 75th percentile score is a 63 and the 25th is a 157, 25% of the entering class scored lower than 157 and 75% of the class scored lower than 163.

VasaVasori
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Postby VasaVasori » Fri Jul 20, 2012 12:41 am

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lederhosen
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Re: 25/75 percentiles

Postby lederhosen » Fri Jul 20, 2012 12:43 am

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VasaVasori
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Postby VasaVasori » Fri Jul 20, 2012 12:52 am

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josemnz83
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Re: 25/75 percentiles

Postby josemnz83 » Fri Jul 20, 2012 12:52 am

I'm actually a URM so this matters to me. I just found out how LSAC actually calculates GPA, which I didn't know before.

I'm not a math major, but if their 25th percentile is a 157 and their 75th percentile is a 163, then I don't think admitting someone with a 148 or a 170 would mathematically affect this number.

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rinkrat19
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Re: 25/75 percentiles

Postby rinkrat19 » Fri Jul 20, 2012 1:01 am

josemnz83 wrote:I'm actually a URM so this matters to me. I just found out how LSAC actually calculates GPA, which I didn't know before.

I'm not a math major, but if their 25th percentile is a 157 and their 75th percentile is a 163, then I don't think admitting someone with a 148 or a 170 would mathematically affect this number.
What are you saying? Of course, schools will admit a certain number of people both high and low (they'd like to have all high scorers, but those people are likely to go to better schools). But too many people under the median and their percentile scores drop. Enough people over the median and their percentiles rise. The formula for the rankings uses the median score. Schools do NOT want it to drop.

If you're saying that ONE high or low score doesn't affect the median much, then you're right.

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ColoBoul
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Re: 25/75 percentiles

Postby ColoBoul » Fri Jul 20, 2012 1:05 am

josemnz83 wrote:I'm actually a URM so this matters to me. I just found out how LSAC actually calculates GPA, which I didn't know before.

I'm not a math major, but if their 25th percentile is a 157 and their 75th percentile is a 163, then I don't think admitting someone with a 148 or a 170 would mathematically affect this number.


It would only affect these numbers if say the 148 they admitted replaced say a 157 or higher that withdrew. Therefore increasing the possibility that more than 25% of the admitted class comes from 157 and below and thus lowering their 25 percentile to say 156 or lower. Though not a math major here so I could be completely off.......

josemnz83
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Re: 25/75 percentiles

Postby josemnz83 » Fri Jul 20, 2012 1:07 am

Yea. The school I'm interested has a 25/75 percentile range of 157-163. (median 161)

My diagnostic was a 156 about a month ago and I'm trying to be strategize on how best meet these numbers. :mrgreen:

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rinkrat19
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Re: 25/75 percentiles

Postby rinkrat19 » Fri Jul 20, 2012 1:25 am

josemnz83 wrote:Yea. The school I'm interested has a 25/75 percentile range of 157-163. (median 161)

My diagnostic was a 156 about a month ago and I'm trying to be strategize on how best meet these numbers. :mrgreen:
Aim for 180. Get as close as possible. Adjust goals from there. Don't aim for anything lower.

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NoodleyOne
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Re: 25/75 percentiles

Postby NoodleyOne » Fri Jul 20, 2012 1:06 pm

josemnz83 wrote:Yea. The school I'm interested has a 25/75 percentile range of 157-163. (median 161)

My diagnostic was a 156 about a month ago and I'm trying to be strategize on how best meet these numbers. :mrgreen:


If you diag'd at 156, a score in the 170s (and a school to match) is well within your range. I wouldn't settle for the TTT with those numbers for anything less than a full ride+stipend+full use of undergrad girls.

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Nova
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Re: 25/75 percentiles

Postby Nova » Fri Jul 20, 2012 5:38 pm

NoodleyOne wrote:
josemnz83 wrote:Yea. The school I'm interested has a 25/75 percentile range of 157-163. (median 161)

My diagnostic was a 156 about a month ago and I'm trying to be strategize on how best meet these numbers. :mrgreen:


If you diag'd at 156, a score in the 170s (and a school to match) is well within your range. I wouldn't settle for the TTT with those numbers for anything less than a full ride+stipend+full use of undergrad girls.


Its not anywhere close to a TTT.

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cahwc12
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Re: 25/75 percentiles

Postby cahwc12 » Sat Jul 21, 2012 1:44 pm

josemnz83 wrote:Can someone please explain what that means? If a school has a 157/163 LSAT percentile, does that mean that most students get a 163?


I don't like being a jerk on the internet, but this is a crime against simple math. It bothers me that I'm potentially competing against you and you don't know what a percentile is, something I learned in fourth, possibly third grade.

Also, your answer is easily searchable:

http://www.usnews.com/education/best-gr ... l-rankings

Selectivity (weighted by 0.25)

Median LSAT scores (0.125): The combined median scores on the Law School Admission Test of all full-time and part-time entrants to the J.D. program's 2011 entering class.

Median undergrad GPA (0.10): The combined median undergraduate grade-point average of all the full-time and part-time entrants to the J.D. program's 2011 entering class.


So, a school's 75th percentile of 163 means that someone entering their class with a 163 scored better or equal to 75% of the other students entering that class. Similarly, a score of 157 means that an entering student with 157 scored equal to or better than only 25% of the other students entering that class.

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Nova
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Re: 25/75 percentiles

Postby Nova » Sat Jul 21, 2012 2:07 pm

cahwc12 wrote:
josemnz83 wrote:Can someone please explain what that means? If a school has a 157/163 LSAT percentile, does that mean that most students get a 163?


I don't like being a jerk on the internet, but this is a crime against simple math. It bothers me that I'm potentially competing against you and you don't know what a percentile is, something I learned in fourth, possibly third grade.

Also, your answer is easily searchable:



Not cool. Your actual answer is great.
Last edited by Nova on Sat Jul 21, 2012 7:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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2014
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Re: 25/75 percentiles

Postby 2014 » Sat Jul 21, 2012 3:01 pm

VasaVasori wrote:Are you guys sure about that?

This seems to suggest that it refers to the percentage of admitted students who scored below that number, not the percentage of entering students who scored below that number.

Roughly 22% (~1,900 of 8,667) of applicants were granted admission last year. Of those admitted students, the 25th to 75th percentile GPA range was 3.14–3.59 and the range for the LSAT was 158-165—with medians of 3.39 and 163, respectively.


I've actually wondered this myself, but I kind of decided it didn't matter enough to merit investigation.

The USNWR numbers, which are the only ones that should matter, are based on the previous years matriculating class.

josemnz83
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Re: 25/75 percentiles

Postby josemnz83 » Sat Jul 21, 2012 5:44 pm

cahwc12 wrote:
josemnz83 wrote:Can someone please explain what that means? If a school has a 157/163 LSAT percentile, does that mean that most students get a 163?


I don't like being a jerk on the internet, but this is a crime against simple math. It bothers me that I'm potentially competing against you and you don't know what a percentile is, something I learned in fourth, possibly third grade.

Also, your answer is easily searchable:

http://www.usnews.com/education/best-gr ... l-rankings

Selectivity (weighted by 0.25)

Median LSAT scores (0.125): The combined median scores on the Law School Admission Test of all full-time and part-time entrants to the J.D. program's 2011 entering class.

Median undergrad GPA (0.10): The combined median undergraduate grade-point average of all the full-time and part-time entrants to the J.D. program's 2011 entering class.


So, a school's 75th percentile of 163 means that someone entering their class with a 163 scored better or equal to 75% of the other students entering that class. Similarly, a score of 157 means that an entering student with 157 scored equal to or better than only 25% of the other students entering that class.

Thanks for the explanation. I'm a little puzzled as to why you would be bothered by others competing against you (no matter how smart or dumb they are). I'm sure that someone who scores a 180 and has a 4.0 is not "bothered" by questions regarding percentiles. Oh and by the way I do understand percentiles. The reason I initially asked this question is because African American students tend to get lower LSAT scores than others. As such many of them are denied entry into law schools since law schools think that admitting someone under their 25th percentile score will hurt their percentage rankings. Pretend that a law school's reported 25th percentile is 166. Applicant A (an aa) has an LSAT score of 156 and applicant B has an LSAT score of 162. If the school admits the African American student (Applicant A), it is not going to hurt the 25/75 standard since applicant B has an lsat score below 166 also. Thanks for your response though :mrgreen:

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Aberzombie1892
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Re: 25/75 percentiles

Postby Aberzombie1892 » Sat Jul 21, 2012 5:48 pm

The 25/75 percentiles really don't matter. The only thing they do is allow students to compare splitter friendly schools (like IUB) to non splitter friendly schools (like Tulane) for the purposes of guaging the chances of acceptace.

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cc.celina
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Re: 25/75 percentiles

Postby cc.celina » Sat Jul 21, 2012 7:18 pm

cahwc12 wrote:I don't like being a jerk on the internet, but this is a crime against simple math. It bothers me that I'm potentially competing against you and you don't know what a percentile is, something I learned in fourth, possibly third grade.

Then don't be a jerk on the internet. We don't like it either.
josemnz83 wrote:Thanks for the explanation. I'm a little puzzled as to why you would be bothered by others competing against you (no matter how smart or dumb they are). I'm sure that someone who scores a 180 and has a 4.0 is not "bothered" by questions regarding percentiles. Oh and by the way I do understand percentiles. The reason I initially asked this question is because African American students tend to get lower LSAT scores than others. As such many of them are denied entry into law schools since law schools think that admitting someone under their 25th percentile score will hurt their percentage rankings. Pretend that a law school's reported 25th percentile is 166. Applicant A (an aa) has an LSAT score of 156 and applicant B has an LSAT score of 162. If the school admits the African American student (Applicant A), it is not going to hurt the 25/75 standard since applicant B has an lsat score below 166 also. Thanks for your response though :mrgreen:


Remember that a) the URM boost exists, and that b) schools do not necessarily know their 25th/75th percentiles when they are admitting students. Of course if you are far below 25th or far above the 75th this is not going to matter, but if you are hovering around either one of them it is going to matter a lot. Remember that they also publish their highest/lowest scores, and if you are the lowest score they have yet to admit that is REALLY going to matter.

Conventional wisdom is that if you have below a 25th percentile LSAT score or GPA, the other one should be above 75th for you to have a decent shot of getting into the school.

Finally, even though you're right that choosing between two below-25th scorers will not affect the 25th percentile, schools have an incentive to take the higher scorer anyway, in the absence of any super-impressive softs. There's a reason the LSAT is so important to admission - many studies suggest that score correlates somewhat with 1L grades, and while I don't want to get into the debate of whether or not this is true, there is no reason for a law school to go against this general idea and pick the low scorer for no reason. If you have impressive softs, a great PS and solid LORs, you may beat a higher scorer who doesn't have these things, but don't expect to arbitrarily beat higher scorers just because it won't affect their percentiles.

josemnz83
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Re: 25/75 percentiles

Postby josemnz83 » Sat Jul 21, 2012 9:23 pm

@ cc. I completely agree. Just for disclosure: I'm not an AA. I'm as Mexican-American as can be! I also think that law schools are afraid of lawsuits and issues of fairness if they admit someone whose scores is way below their 25th percentile. My only point was that mathematically it does not affect the 25th percentile score. jeje

Mal Reynolds
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Re: 25/75 percentiles

Postby Mal Reynolds » Sat Jul 21, 2012 9:41 pm

josemnz83 wrote:I also think that law schools are afraid of lawsuits and issues of fairness if they admit someone whose scores is way below their 25th percentile.


Are you basing this claim on anything else besides the part of your ass you pulled it from?

josemnz83
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Re: 25/75 percentiles

Postby josemnz83 » Sat Jul 21, 2012 10:29 pm

Virginia Law Professor and Former Dean of Minnessota Law School:
Check out the video. Its really informative.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_7_xHsce57c

Oh and he is also former chair of LSAC. No offense about the "ass" comment either. No need to be insulting on the web! :mrgreen:

bbobby12
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Re: 25/75 percentiles

Postby bbobby12 » Tue Jul 24, 2012 8:31 pm

161 sounds about right for the median. if youre only 5 points away you may have a chance if you retake it. if not, you're gonna need a high gpa and some good letter of recs




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