The Powerscore Bibles Don't have to be bibles

lawyerdude
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The Powerscore Bibles Don't have to be bibles

Postby lawyerdude » Tue Jul 17, 2012 5:58 pm

I've been trying to go through the Powerscore bibles, and I'm beginning to feel that much of what they cover is extremely obvious and tedious. I definitely believe that certain people can forego the instruction manuals and just hit the practice tests/review straight up. Much of what they cover is extremely tedious and neurotically broken down, but the points brought up can easily be attained intuitively through practice. Anyone agree?

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cc.celina
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Re: The Powerscore Bibles Don't have to be bibles

Postby cc.celina » Tue Jul 17, 2012 6:18 pm

Not really. The LGB is definitely written so the lowest common denominator can understand it, but my diagrams got infinitely better after seeing how PS set certain games up. Some of their tips, like creating a master diagram at the bottom and working each question on a separate mini-diagram, saved my life during LG sections, and I would never have done that on my own because I thought it was a waste of time. Their word is not law, but I feel that at least some LG prep book exposure necessary to start efficiently -0ing every section with time to spare.

Maybe you could do it by carefully going through the ~40 LG sections in "modern" LSAT and figuring out how they work, but that sounds really inefficient. You waste some time in LGB doing trivial stuff, but that's nothing compared to figuring out how to diagram completely on your own. (from someone who tried before she knew the LGB existed)

ymmv.

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CardozoLaw09
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Re: The Powerscore Bibles Don't have to be bibles

Postby CardozoLaw09 » Tue Jul 17, 2012 6:33 pm

cc.celina wrote:Not really. The LGB is definitely written so the lowest common denominator can understand it, but my diagrams got infinitely better after seeing how PS set certain games up. Some of their tips, like creating a master diagram at the bottom and working each question on a separate mini-diagram, saved my life during LG sections, and I would never have done that on my own because I thought it was a waste of time. Their word is not law, but I feel that at least some LG prep book exposure necessary to start efficiently -0ing every section with time to spare.

Maybe you could do it by carefully going through the ~40 LG sections in "modern" LSAT and figuring out how they work, but that sounds really inefficient. You waste some time in LGB doing trivial stuff, but that's nothing compared to figuring out how to diagram completely on your own. (from someone who tried before she knew the LGB existed)

ymmv.


This + I agree that the L/R bible can drag on at times with stuff you already know, but I found their techniques for assumption questions helpful ie) the negation test; also they have a pretty strong formal logic section that does an effective job in teaching sufficient and necessary conditions which can be somewhat difficult to grasp intuitively. Most of the other sections, though, can be relied on your intuition.

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ilovelawtays
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Re: The Powerscore Bibles Don't have to be bibles

Postby ilovelawtays » Tue Jul 17, 2012 6:35 pm

It's cool that you're smarter than the rest of us.

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cc.celina
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Re: The Powerscore Bibles Don't have to be bibles

Postby cc.celina » Tue Jul 17, 2012 6:36 pm

CardozoLaw09 wrote:This + I agree that the L/R bible can drag on at times with stuff you already know, but I found their techniques for assumption questions helpful ie) the negation test; also they have a pretty strong formal logic section that does an effective job in teaching sufficient and necessary conditions which can be somewhat difficult to grasp intuitively. Most of the other sections, though, can be relied on your intuition.

Wow, yeah, sorry, I was exclusively talking about the LG bible because that's the one normally referred to on tls and I had a brain fart. I did not use either the LR or the RC bible and did just fine. I learned about the negation test and formal logic from helpful TLSers.

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Elston Gunn
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Re: The Powerscore Bibles Don't have to be bibles

Postby Elston Gunn » Tue Jul 17, 2012 6:51 pm

I mean, they're designed to be useful for people with score ranges from 140s all the way up to top scorers. Of course there's going to be some obvious stuff.

I think everyone almost has to get either PS or Manhattan for LGs. The LRB is useful as well at points but probably not necessary.
Last edited by Elston Gunn on Tue Jul 17, 2012 7:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.

rshehadeh9091
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Re: The Powerscore Bibles Don't have to be bibles

Postby rshehadeh9091 » Tue Jul 17, 2012 7:00 pm

Not entirely. I read the first few chapters in both LGB and LRB--I found the information valuable for sure! Perhaps you should try the ManhattanLSAT series. While I'm still relatively new to the LSAT, I'd argue that to forgo learning good/quick methods for solving games and reasoning questions won't serve you well going into PTing. You could just hit the PTs, learn why you made certain mistakes, and just try to change your thinking as you continue to take PTs (actually thought about that myself), but why not build a good base of basic knowledge before running through the PT material. There's many, but before you know it they'll be gone, esp if you're starting from the most recent and working your way back. What might end up happening is you will see a good increase for a few weeks, but then, bam, you might hit a plateau because certains tricks/confusions/whatever, that seem to constantly be getting you, aren't things you're able to just pick up on your own from reviewing the logic behind why you missed certain questions on a previous exam. In other words, what happens when if you hit the point where you like, "wow I just don't understand why the answer was D and not B. Fuck. What's worse, I cannot seem to find any trends from my previous PTs where this type of question would certain be D." Now I could be completely wrong, and no matter what type of questions you miss you'll always be able to - on your own - figure your mistake out and correct it. But what happens if I'm right... why not avoid this issue and at least build a little foundation through your readings. This is not to assume that just because you are reading lsat study guides, this = you not missing questions now. My argument is simply that by building the base of knowledge a) you'll have things you've learned to fall back on, and b) the range of possibilites for which you could make a mistake will be greatly shortened. I'm using the Manhattan books, and honestly, so far I really like them.

lawyerdude
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Re: The Powerscore Bibles Don't have to be bibles

Postby lawyerdude » Tue Jul 17, 2012 7:15 pm

Thanks for the responses, guys. I just think once you get past the first 20-30 pages of the LG and LR bibles (essentially making a master diagram with smaller diagrams... and answering LRs through classifications, respectively), much of the other stuff can be garnered through practice. The thing is, I would argue that by gaining these skills through practice rather than through instruction, they're more easily understood on a deeper, applicable level and thus would speed up progress.

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cc.celina
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Re: The Powerscore Bibles Don't have to be bibles

Postby cc.celina » Tue Jul 17, 2012 7:22 pm

lawyerdude wrote:Thanks for the responses, guys. I just think once you get past the first 20-30 pages of the LG and LR bibles (essentially making a master diagram with smaller diagrams... and answering LRs through classifications, respectively), much of the other stuff can be garnered through practice. The thing is, I would argue that by gaining these skills through practice rather than through instruction, they're more easily understood on a deeper, applicable level and thus would speed up progress.

I think our advice is, BOTH is TCR.

TERS
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Re: The Powerscore Bibles Don't have to be bibles

Postby TERS » Tue Jul 17, 2012 8:57 pm

"Shit's easy. I'm smart. Why are you guys dumb?"



If you just practice, you risk coming up with effective but not the most efficient/best methods. Because this exam is so important for my future prospects, I don't take stupid risks like that. Neither should you unless you're already getting -0 over and over. I supplement my practice with exposure to new techniques...seems the best way to go...

Oscar85
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Re: The Powerscore Bibles Don't have to be bibles

Postby Oscar85 » Tue Jul 17, 2012 10:10 pm

Eh, I enjoy it. I've done Velocity/Blueprint/PWS/Manhattan, and I am picking and choosing the best methods... Of course, I've had to work overtime a lot to afford this. There are still that the PWS bible use that I apply to questions. For example, I think they have the best formal logic chapter than any other company. I had been studying for the LSAT for two months, and I had always overlooked the seemingly obvious face that an all statement has inherent inferences. Sometimes some things are so obvious you just miss them because you are trying really hard to perform at an advanced level.

JohnV
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Re: The Powerscore Bibles Don't have to be bibles

Postby JohnV » Wed Jul 18, 2012 12:44 am

cc.celina wrote:Not really. The LGB is definitely written so the lowest common denominator can understand it, but my diagrams got infinitely better after seeing how PS set certain games up. Some of their tips, like creating a master diagram at the bottom and working each question on a separate mini-diagram, saved my life during LG sections, and I would never have done that on my own because I thought it was a waste of time. Their word is not law, but I feel that at least some LG prep book exposure necessary to start efficiently -0ing every section with time to spare.

Maybe you could do it by carefully going through the ~40 LG sections in "modern" LSAT and figuring out how they work, but that sounds really inefficient. You waste some time in LGB doing trivial stuff, but that's nothing compared to figuring out how to diagram completely on your own. (from someone who tried before she knew the LGB existed)

ymmv.


How did it help you? I find the PS method difficult to implement. I often have trouble finding the space to use it, it gives a greater opportunity to forget an inference, and it is hard to work with if you need to make multiple hypotheticals. Am I doing it wrong?

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cc.celina
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Re: The Powerscore Bibles Don't have to be bibles

Postby cc.celina » Wed Jul 18, 2012 1:17 am

JohnV wrote:How did it help you? I find the PS method difficult to implement. I often have trouble finding the space to use it, it gives a greater opportunity to forget an inference, and it is hard to work with if you need to make multiple hypotheticals. Am I doing it wrong?

It is definitely harder when you're working with games that have a lot of hypos, which are the more recent games. I will admit I was much better at the old games than the new games (started running low on time) and I missed one on the June test which I've beaten myself up about.

Powerscore specifically may not fit the best with your style, I was just speaking to the benefit of having studied ANY system for attacking LG instead of no system. My LG score after LGB >>>>>>> my LG score before LGB. Would I have gotten similar results with manhattan or velocity? Probably.

Don't be afraid to look at other methods - that's the whole point of what I was trying to tell the OP. Go through different methods and find the tips and tricks that work for you, but it's a lot more efficient to pick and choose from different tried and true methods than just trying to come up with a system on your own.

As for the space issue: On the June test, each game was spread over 2 pages. There was like an INFINITE AMOUNT OF SPACE. This will continue. Read more here. You can even probably start doing LG on blank sheets of paper (just don't use the top quarter or so) because space does not seem like it will be an issue any longer.

As for the hypotheticals: Check out the velocity method. I never got too deep into it but he has a lot of free videos on his website if you want to check it out and see if you like the way he solves things. I hear velocity is much more brute force, and if I'd had the time I would have benefited from studying this method too.

As for the inferences: LGB is supposed to be the best for figuring out inferences. What do you mean, you're forgetting them? Are you diagramming them as soon as you figure them out?

JohnV
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Re: The Powerscore Bibles Don't have to be bibles

Postby JohnV » Wed Jul 18, 2012 1:26 am

As for the hypotheticals: Check out the velocity method. I never got too deep into it but he has a lot of free videos on his website if you want to check it out and see if you like the way he solves things. I hear velocity is much more brute force, and if I'd had the time I would have benefited from studying this method too.


I'll give it a look. I don't use a lot of brute force but when nothing is clicking I like to do a hypothetical to get things going and create something that might help later on. Also helps me not think about how much time I'm wasting which can turn into a vicious cycle.

Does the Manhattan LG book use the grid system? I think that's what I've heard and if so I might go pick it up since it may be more comfortable for me.

As for the inferences: LGB is supposed to be the best for figuring out inferences. What do you mean, you're forgetting them? Are you diagramming them as soon as you figure them out?


Yes. What I mean by that is when you make an individual set up for each game beside the question (along with the main diagram at the bottom) it's easy for me to forget that a certain variable can't go in a certain place or a variable HAS to be somewhere when translating the main diagram info into the local diagram.

I will say, even though I don't use their diagramming method they have given me some good info on inferences which has in turn, I think, improved my score. I generally do pretty well on LG's already, I'm just trying to make sure come test day there is as close to 0% chance as possible that one game is going to take a chunk of time.

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cc.celina
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Re: The Powerscore Bibles Don't have to be bibles

Postby cc.celina » Wed Jul 18, 2012 1:30 am

Sorry, I don't know anything about Manhattan LG. You might be able to find some tls opinions through forum search.

JohnV wrote:Yes. What I mean by that is when you make an individual set up for each game beside the question (along with the main diagram at the bottom) it's easy for me to forget that a certain variable can't go in a certain place or a variable HAS to be somewhere when translating the main diagram info into the local diagram.

Yeah, that's definitely understandable. Honestly, no method is going to be perfect, and in every single one you're going to have to be juggling some details in your head. I got a lot better at internalizing both rules AND inferences as I practiced more, and when I didn't immediately find an answer, I learned to check the rules/inferences first to make sure I wasn't missing anything.

If this continues to be a problem for you, you should either consider making more detailed diagrams for each question that includes tiny shorthand for any inferences you've made (since you have space now, this shouldn't be a huge deal) or switching to some kind of grid systems. Grid systems were personally a complete disaster for me, but you'll never know till you try.




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