October retake advice - 161 LSAT / 4.22 GPA

KingsBench
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October retake advice - 161 LSAT / 4.22 GPA

Postby KingsBench » Wed Jul 04, 2012 5:12 am

Hey guys,

Thanks for all the help in the past couple months. Anyways, I got my LSAT score back and managed a 161. My PT average was 163, with a couple of 166-168s peppered in, but I mistakenly ignored TLS advice and wrote the test anyways. Needless to say, I'm definitely gonna have to be more vigilant in the next couple weeks to make sure I don't make the same mistakes.

My score distribution was:
LR1: -7
RC: -8
LR2: -6
LG: -4

I self-studied (intensively starting in April, with some lighter studying from Jan-Mar). I guess one of my main problems was that most of the work I did was skewed towards learning LG - it took quite a while to get myself used to the timing, but prior to entering the exam I was relatively comfortable with games and had scored -0/-1s on most the PTs I did. The amount of space we were given for this administration plus a couple exam-day factors (fatigue, bathroom issues) probably had an adverse effect on LSAT day. That being said, I didn't nearly put enough time studying for LR or RC. My RC is probably the most surprising out of all of these, since I normally get -0 to -5 on RC. All in all, not the best exam.

I've calculated my LSAC GPA to be at a 4.22. I know that with a very strong LSAT score I have potential for some T14 schools, but right now I'm facing the daunting task of planning a retake. My main issue is that I'm pretty much roaming around the world for the next little while (currently in Europe and will be in Asia next month) - I was hoping to take a course but it's a bit difficult when I don't really have a permanent address for the next two months. I'll be in the United States by late August, so I presumably can get started then, but I'm not sure if that's a bit too late. I'm hoping to get a 172+ for October, which is a huge jump, so I have my work cut out for me.

Does anyone have any advice on how to approach a retake? Course vs. attempting another round of self-studying? Managing time, etc.? Any help would be greatly appreciated!
Last edited by KingsBench on Wed Jul 04, 2012 7:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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BallHog
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Re: October retake advice

Postby BallHog » Wed Jul 04, 2012 3:00 pm

Off topic, but how do you possibly go through college getting more A+'s than A's?

traveler91
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Re: October retake advice

Postby traveler91 » Wed Jul 04, 2012 3:21 pm

private tutoring. You won't have a lot of time, and your previous studying means you won't need a lot of the basic stuff taught in a big class. It's more expensive than a class per hour but it's likely you'll save time and money and get a better result than with the class. You've already tried studying on your own so I wouldn't repeat that option.

WalkingPlato
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Re: October retake advice - 161 LSAT / 4.22 GPA

Postby WalkingPlato » Wed Jul 04, 2012 8:41 pm

How do you get a 4.22? My college, and a lot of colleges, have a max of 4.0, even if you get all A+ (which my and other colleges count as just A). When they report this, only the letter A gets sent and so we get a 4.0 max. What college do you go to?

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TheThriller
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Re: October retake advice - 161 LSAT / 4.22 GPA

Postby TheThriller » Wed Jul 04, 2012 8:52 pm

WalkingPlato wrote:How do you get a 4.22? My college, and a lot of colleges, have a max of 4.0, even if you get all A+ (which my and other colleges count as just A). When they report this, only the letter A gets sent and so we get a 4.0 max. What college do you go to?



LSAC re-weights your gpa on a 4.33 scale so all reported A+s, though they may count for a 4.0 at your UG, counts as a 4.33 according to LSAC

WalkingPlato
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Re: October retake advice - 161 LSAT / 4.22 GPA

Postby WalkingPlato » Thu Jul 05, 2012 1:29 am

MillerTheThriller wrote:
WalkingPlato wrote:How do you get a 4.22? My college, and a lot of colleges, have a max of 4.0, even if you get all A+ (which my and other colleges count as just A). When they report this, only the letter A gets sent and so we get a 4.0 max. What college do you go to?



LSAC re-weights your gpa on a 4.33 scale so all reported A+s, though they may count for a 4.0 at your UG, counts as a 4.33 according to LSAC


But, what if your UG only has A- and A, but no A+ option. Even if I received 100% in a class, my UG will only report an A. Does that mean that, even though I should receive a 4.33 for those credits, I will only receive 4.0 when it comes to LSAC?

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JamMasterJ
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Re: October retake advice - 161 LSAT / 4.22 GPA

Postby JamMasterJ » Thu Jul 05, 2012 2:31 am

WalkingPlato wrote:
MillerTheThriller wrote:
WalkingPlato wrote:How do you get a 4.22? My college, and a lot of colleges, have a max of 4.0, even if you get all A+ (which my and other colleges count as just A). When they report this, only the letter A gets sent and so we get a 4.0 max. What college do you go to?



LSAC re-weights your gpa on a 4.33 scale so all reported A+s, though they may count for a 4.0 at your UG, counts as a 4.33 according to LSAC


But, what if your UG only has A- and A, but no A+ option. Even if I received 100% in a class, my UG will only report an A. Does that mean that, even though I should receive a 4.33 for those credits, I will only receive 4.0 when it comes to LSAC?

yes. LSAC reconverts your letter grade, not the percentage. It sucks for those of us that didn't have A+'s at our UG

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Nova
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Re: October retake advice - 161 LSAT / 4.22 GPA

Postby Nova » Thu Jul 05, 2012 9:34 am

I think you should give self study another shot. Try manhattan, all the books together in a bundle are only $70 on Amazon. Then just drill and PT. Also, hang out with these lovely posters, viewtopic.php?f=6&t=175180&start=500 .

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gatesome
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Re: October retake advice

Postby gatesome » Thu Jul 05, 2012 9:40 am

BallHog wrote:Off topic, but how do you possibly go through college getting more A+'s than A's?


this

lawschool2014hopeful
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Re: October retake advice

Postby lawschool2014hopeful » Thu Jul 05, 2012 4:07 pm

gatesome wrote:
BallHog wrote:Off topic, but how do you possibly go through college getting more A+'s than A's?


this


Is not difficult really, just smart decision making on major and course selection

Step 1: Pick a major that gives A+
Step 2: Pick courses base on grade distribution and professor ratings
Step 3: Work hard and memorize bunch of stuff (mostly useless/redundant stuff most college kids are too lazy for) for exams

I had 4.26/4.20 GPA in my last 2 years.

As for OP's original question, I know one thing for us "high-gpaers" is that we tend to get cocky, DO NOT DO IT. I swear to god, your 4.22 gpa, as you probably realized by now, does not translate into easy LSAT 99 percentile LSAT score. Thus, if you can only start studying in August, you wont be ready for October. I assume you will be going into your senior year, you will probably be best shooting for Feb/or wait a year. Since you do not want screw up your GPA by doing LSAT and final exams at the same time. If you already graduated, take December exam.

Furthermore, dont be afraid to ask for help. I know TLS's golden advice is self-study, and you think, with your high-gpa, you should be able to do it, like everyone else. However, if you recognize that your methods are not working, and feel stuck, honestly, take help. E.g., sign up for a course. Live or Online is your choice, I signed up for online/velocity and honestly the only regret I have is that I didnt sign up for this in May because I was so stubborn (thought process of well, if these guys with LOW GPA can do it self-studying alone, I must be dumb if I cant do it.....), dont fall for this thinking.

lederhosen
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Re: October retake advice

Postby lederhosen » Thu Jul 05, 2012 5:03 pm

.
Last edited by lederhosen on Tue Aug 21, 2012 3:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.

KingsBench
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Re: October retake advice - 161 LSAT / 4.22 GPA

Postby KingsBench » Mon Jul 09, 2012 8:50 am

Thanks everyone for their comments. As to the 4.0+ GPA, it wasn't really that difficult - I'm a political science and history major and I really enjoyed the classes I took. That, and I vetted out courses based on professor (our school publishes the student evaluation reports that we do at the end of each course) and talking to a couple upper-year friends. Needless to say, I worked hard for my GPA and am hoping that I can supplement it with a strong LSAT score.

To jimmierock, I think I fell into exactly that sort of mentality - my GPA is awesome so my LSAT will be awesome too. I guess I underestimated the pressure of the exam and how much time it would take to prep. This score definitely kicks in a bit of humility, but also a much better recognition that I need to really kick it into gear.

I'm contemplating taking the Velocity course, primarily because it offers online recorded lessons which could definitely tune up a couple sections (primarily LR), and there's an online books option that allows me a lot of flexibility since I won't really be able to lug around a set of books while abroad.

When prepping, I was using Manhattan but primarily the LGB and LRB. The LGB made a huge differences, the LRB less so. Anyone else have any other specific bits of retake advice, particularly for improving LR? Or do you think going with Velocity and making sure to keep up with the review process (much like what I did when self-studying for June) would be sufficient?

Thanks again!

JohnV
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Re: October retake advice - 161 LSAT / 4.22 GPA

Postby JohnV » Mon Jul 09, 2012 2:32 pm

KingsBench wrote:Thanks everyone for their comments. As to the 4.0+ GPA, it wasn't really that difficult - I'm a political science and history major and I really enjoyed the classes I took. That, and I vetted out courses based on professor (our school publishes the student evaluation reports that we do at the end of each course) and talking to a couple upper-year friends. Needless to say, I worked hard for my GPA and am hoping that I can supplement it with a strong LSAT score.


This is my exact situation as well, same majors, strategy, etc. If only I had been more serious about having a high GPA my first couple of years. I still have a relatively high GPA, just not when it comes to the T14. Unfortunately my school does not offer A+.

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LexLeon
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Re: October retake advice - 161 LSAT / 4.22 GPA

Postby LexLeon » Tue Jul 10, 2012 3:02 pm

Are students from schools that don't give A+'s at a competitive disadvantage?

thederangedwang
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Re: October retake advice - 161 LSAT / 4.22 GPA

Postby thederangedwang » Tue Jul 10, 2012 3:06 pm

one of my friends graduated with a 4.26...double major in econ and biology. He didnt even have the highest gpa in my class though...so its certainly attainble to get absurdly high gpa's

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BallHog
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Re: October retake advice - 161 LSAT / 4.22 GPA

Postby BallHog » Tue Jul 10, 2012 6:01 pm

thederangedwang wrote:one of my friends graduated with a 4.26...double major in econ and biology. He didnt even have the highest gpa in my class though...so its certainly attainble to get absurdly high gpa's


Depends on the school and grade distributions I guess.

And yes Lex, I personally believe they are unless law schools are aware of this. (My school offers A+'s)

KingsBench
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Re: October retake advice - 161 LSAT / 4.22 GPA

Postby KingsBench » Mon Aug 27, 2012 2:27 pm

Well, the title of this needs changing - I've made a couple executive decisions (thanks to some TLS searching as well) in the past couple weeks. I'll be rewriting in December, and I just registered for Velocity today. I was going to try for October, but I really don't think I have the time to cram in the prep needed for a 10+ point jump in a month.

Obviously though a December LSAT puts me "behind" in terms of TLS standards for applications - does anyone know if a 4.0+ GPA and *hopefully* a 170+ LSAT will make up for a later application? (This is assuming I have everything all ready and ready to submit as soon as I get my LSAT score back in Dec.)

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Mr. Frodo
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Re: October retake advice - 161 LSAT / 4.22 GPA

Postby Mr. Frodo » Mon Aug 27, 2012 2:29 pm

tag

M.M.
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Re: October retake advice - 161 LSAT / 4.22 GPA

Postby M.M. » Mon Aug 27, 2012 2:30 pm

KingsBench wrote:Well, the title of this needs changing - I've made a couple executive decisions (thanks to some TLS searching as well) in the past couple weeks. I'll be rewriting in December, and I just registered for Velocity today. I was going to try for October, but I really don't think I have the time to cram in the prep needed for a 10+ point jump in a month.

Obviously though a December LSAT puts me "behind" in terms of TLS standards for applications - does anyone know if a 4.0+ GPA and *hopefully* a 170+ LSAT will make up for a later application? (This is assuming I have everything all ready and ready to submit as soon as I get my LSAT score back in Dec.)



Have you considered studying hard (obviously a given) until October and seeing where you're at, and possibly considering October? E.G. if you're PTing consistently at 172 - 173 before the October test, you might want to consider it.

By the way, I despise that your school gives A+ and mine doesn't :(

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Ixiion
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Re: October retake advice - 161 LSAT / 4.22 GPA

Postby Ixiion » Mon Aug 27, 2012 2:58 pm

I was so happy when I found out my A+s will finally mean something, lol. Yippee. Raises my LSAC GPA by at least .1 I've always been annoyed with the fact that an A and an A+ are equivalent in your GPA, so. It basically made you feel like it was pointless to strive for an A+, since getting a 93 would be the same darn thing.

opX
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Re: October retake advice - 161 LSAT / 4.22 GPA

Postby opX » Mon Aug 27, 2012 3:23 pm

didnt read above advice so sorry if redundant:

1) for LR, collect every single question you have ever gotten wrong. Identify the type of question it is. Identify why you got that question wrong, and identify patterns of what types and why you got that question wrong. CORRECT your bad habits.

2) for LG, use power score LG book. Its THE BEST imo, and if followed, there is no reason that you could not master LG.

3) RC, my worst section, do what I said for LR, but beyond that.... ask somebody else. I dont have any stellar advice for RC, sorry.

overall, do not just take study like crazy! study wisely. take a step back, figure out what you are doing wrong, and grow from it. Once you have at least done steps 1 and 2, consider a LEGITIMATE private tutor... someone who scores 175+ every time.

(i canceled my first score and defeated that top 90% ceiling the second time. If you have time to study and money for materials, you can do better!)




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