Calling all past and potential THREE TIME LSAT TAKERS...

dkb17xzx
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Re: Calling all past and potential THREE TIME LSAT TAKERS...

Postby dkb17xzx » Wed Jul 04, 2012 10:23 am

espressocream wrote:So for those of us who have the foundations and just need to drill, drill, drill - when are you guys planning to start studying?
I know personally that I can't start until late July - I will burn out.

Classes start Sept 10 for me, so I'm thinking I'll work on PS, Why X and other app materials till then?

Thoughts on this?


I am thinking mid-July or so. I still wanna craft a proper strategy. I was debating whether I should retake in October or December but ultimately decided that October will be a much better option. I need to focus on RC so I might do Dave Hall's (Velocity) RC section for that. For LR and LG, I think it's all about drill drill drill.

Any of you guys doing any section-specific prep?

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espressocream
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Re: Calling all past and potential THREE TIME LSAT TAKERS...

Postby espressocream » Wed Jul 04, 2012 12:50 pm

dkb17xzx wrote:
espressocream wrote:So for those of us who have the foundations and just need to drill, drill, drill - when are you guys planning to start studying?
I know personally that I can't start until late July - I will burn out.

Classes start Sept 10 for me, so I'm thinking I'll work on PS, Why X and other app materials till then?

Thoughts on this?


I am thinking mid-July or so. I still wanna craft a proper strategy. I was debating whether I should retake in October or December but ultimately decided that October will be a much better option. I need to focus on RC so I might do Dave Hall's (Velocity) RC section for that. For LR and LG, I think it's all about drill drill drill.

Any of you guys doing any section-specific prep?


Yeah I really only need to work on LR - though clearly since it's my 3rd time, I haven't improved on studying that.

amf728
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Re: Calling all past and potential THREE TIME LSAT TAKERS...

Postby amf728 » Wed Jul 04, 2012 6:01 pm

Wow can I just say thank you for this thread!! I took June 2012 after taking June 2011 with the expectation of scoring 10+ points higher due to my PT diagnostics and ended up scoring a point lower than the first time round. Needless to say, I had quite the breakdown the day scores were released. I'm glad to see others in my position and that I am doing the right thing in retaking in October. I was worried it would hurt my applications by starting to apply to schools without my final LSAT score, but it seems that waiting until late October to submit final applications isn't so horrible.

The first time around I self-studied with the PS bibles. The 2nd time round I used a tutor with the bibles. I don't feel as if I've lost the strategy foundation, so I'm thinking of just doing PT after PT until October and working on the missed questions. My weakest section is RC - does anyone suggest an alternate method of tackling this section?

It's going to be a busy summer between work, studying, personal statement writing, and applying!!

Good luck everyone!

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UtilityMonster
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Re: Calling all past and potential THREE TIME LSAT TAKERS...

Postby UtilityMonster » Wed Jul 04, 2012 6:14 pm

Cancel, 169, 174

I have yet to see if this turns out well for me.

dkb17xzx
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Re: Calling all past and potential THREE TIME LSAT TAKERS...

Postby dkb17xzx » Thu Jul 05, 2012 3:13 pm

amf728 wrote:Wow can I just say thank you for this thread!! I took June 2012 after taking June 2011 with the expectation of scoring 10+ points higher due to my PT diagnostics and ended up scoring a point lower than the first time round. Needless to say, I had quite the breakdown the day scores were released. I'm glad to see others in my position and that I am doing the right thing in retaking in October. I was worried it would hurt my applications by starting to apply to schools without my final LSAT score, but it seems that waiting until late October to submit final applications isn't so horrible.

The first time around I self-studied with the PS bibles. The 2nd time round I used a tutor with the bibles. I don't feel as if I've lost the strategy foundation, so I'm thinking of just doing PT after PT until October and working on the missed questions. My weakest section is RC - does anyone suggest an alternate method of tackling this section?

It's going to be a busy summer between work, studying, personal statement writing, and applying!!

Good luck everyone!


that's exactly the reason I created this thread. it's great to hear from people who had the will power to do this the third time and succeed on that try. as i noted before, the consensus is retake if you feel you under-performed + schools don't really care. the few of us who are doing this the third time should try and communicate with each other over the course of the prep period.

best of luck with the prep.

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BuckeyeGirl
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Re: Calling all past and potential THREE TIME LSAT TAKERS...

Postby BuckeyeGirl » Thu Jul 05, 2012 3:33 pm

Just checking in as this is relevant to my interests.

October 2008-169 (TM and lots of studying, cold diag of 159)
June 2011-166 (trying to kick myself off of numerous WLs, midst of several personal disasters in the preceding months, did almost no studying)
Round 3-October 2012...reapplication time! So, so ready. Hopefully after this cycle I'll have some positive contributions to make here!

seacow
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Re: Calling all past and potential THREE TIME LSAT TAKERS...

Postby seacow » Fri Jul 06, 2012 6:42 pm

Finally slammed out a very loose prep schedule. As follows:

I'll start my prep on July 23.

Revision of Strategy
1. Because I use almost pure intuition to solve LGs, I will try to follow my logical processes at solving them so I can avoid mishaps on test day. I can count on one hand the number of times in my prep I have missed a question on a LG section, but I missed one in Dec. and two in June. Ugh.

2. In LR, I'll try to understand all question types in and out. I already have a pretty thorough understand of them all (with exception of Principle questions), and my strategy/approach to LR sections is already maximizes my effectiveness I believe, so I will not have a considerable amount of work to do here.

3. In RC - my worst section - I have failed miserably on the last two administrations (-13, -10 in Dec., June resp.), but this is not how bad I normally do. I normally miss at most -7 on new sections and at most 3/4 on sections I have already seen. I need to revise my strategy to something much more formulaic. I am considering something like spending 4/4.5 minutes on the text and 4/4.5 minutes on the questions, answering the ones that jump out at me and move on. I feel like in June I wasn't confident about a single question in RC, but I think that was because I lacked a deep understanding on the text and consequently guided through most of it. I feel like, with my skill level, I should be able to hit a minimum score of -7 or so simply by a more effective technique.

Mastery of Strategy
I'll work on these three things interchangeably until I have mastered all techniques and have cemented my new habits. I'll do this by un-timed drills.

Execution of Strategy
Once I feel very confident about my new methods, I'll start PT'ing. I'll just do this until test day.

1. I think I'll go back and do some really old ones at first - like PT 15-30. I also think I'll take 8 sections instead of 5. Test (T) 1 Section (S) 1 - 10 minute break - T1S2 - 10 min break - T1S3 - then proceed as normal with T1S4 as T2's Exp. I haven't decided yet if I should continue this trend until test day or just do it at the beginning. My goal in doing this is to build endurance so that I will not be affected by the stresses of test day.

After doing the early PTs, I'll get out the more recent PTs and hammer those out.

I know this sounds like a lot to do but we have 90 days! I'm going to give myself at least* two days off a week (probably 3/4 in the beginning) so to avoid burnout. For all intents and purposes, however, after these 90 days, my law school application process will be over. So I'm going to give this my all.

shntn
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Re: Calling all past and potential THREE TIME LSAT TAKERS...

Postby shntn » Sat Jul 07, 2012 12:14 am

seacow wrote:Finally slammed out a very loose prep schedule. As follows:

I'll start my prep on July 23.

Revision of Strategy
1. Because I use almost pure intuition to solve LGs, I will try to follow my logical processes at solving them so I can avoid mishaps on test day. I can count on one hand the number of times in my prep I have missed a question on a LG section, but I missed one in Dec. and two in June. Ugh.

2. In LR, I'll try to understand all question types in and out. I already have a pretty thorough understand of them all (with exception of Principle questions), and my strategy/approach to LR sections is already maximizes my effectiveness I believe, so I will not have a considerable amount of work to do here.

3. In RC - my worst section - I have failed miserably on the last two administrations (-13, -10 in Dec., June resp.), but this is not how bad I normally do. I normally miss at most -7 on new sections and at most 3/4 on sections I have already seen. I need to revise my strategy to something much more formulaic. I am considering something like spending 4/4.5 minutes on the text and 4/4.5 minutes on the questions, answering the ones that jump out at me and move on. I feel like in June I wasn't confident about a single question in RC, but I think that was because I lacked a deep understanding on the text and consequently guided through most of it. I feel like, with my skill level, I should be able to hit a minimum score of -7 or so simply by a more effective technique.

Mastery of Strategy
I'll work on these three things interchangeably until I have mastered all techniques and have cemented my new habits. I'll do this by un-timed drills.

Execution of Strategy
Once I feel very confident about my new methods, I'll start PT'ing. I'll just do this until test day.

1. I think I'll go back and do some really old ones at first - like PT 15-30. I also think I'll take 8 sections instead of 5. Test (T) 1 Section (S) 1 - 10 minute break - T1S2 - 10 min break - T1S3 - then proceed as normal with T1S4 as T2's Exp. I haven't decided yet if I should continue this trend until test day or just do it at the beginning. My goal in doing this is to build endurance so that I will not be affected by the stresses of test day.

After doing the early PTs, I'll get out the more recent PTs and hammer those out.

I know this sounds like a lot to do but we have 90 days! I'm going to give myself at least* two days off a week (probably 3/4 in the beginning) so to avoid burnout. For all intents and purposes, however, after these 90 days, my law school application process will be over. So I'm going to give this my all.

Sounds like you've thought a lot about this. I would suggest that with respect to LR, you work not only on understanding the question types but understanding them so well that you can answer them very quickly. Certain question types are easier than others, so you want to spend as little time as necessary on these and leave more time for the more difficult question types. Also, for RC, I would be wary of trying to limit myself to a set amount of time for reading the passage. You should definitely try to read as quickly as you can while still grasping the content, but a firm time limit is just one more thing to think about and keep track of when you should be focusing solely on the passage at hand. You have to read the whole thing if you want to answer all of the questions, so putting a time limit on it will only stress you out more, IMO.

Best of luck with your prep!

dkb17xzx
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Re: Calling all past and potential THREE TIME LSAT TAKERS...

Postby dkb17xzx » Sat Jul 07, 2012 12:34 pm

Looks like a pretty good plan seacow; thanks for the input shinton.

I don't have a prep start date or through plan yet. But these are things I need to focus on:

1.) Anxiety control - While feeling a little anxious is fine (and keeps me on my toes), I don't wanna feel too anxious. Typically I'd like to be able to approach the entire test as an LG section - with relief and anticipation.

2.) Concentration issues - this screws me over big time in RC. I don't have ADD or any of that, just a massive case of dumbassness. I have started reading dense material again and am forcing myself to read at least an hour straight every day.

3.) RC strategy - need to figure this out. I have the Manhattan RC book and I might even invest in Dave Hall's RC course. I missed 9 on June 2012; without this horrendous section, I would have broken the 170 barrier (I think).

4.) Strategy implementation (for all sections) on test day - When I take PT's, I know the exact approach to an assumption question or a principle question. Come test day, it all goes out the window. Rather than panic or straight reading taking over, I wanna drill down so much on strategy that it becomes instinctive. FWIW, I missed a total of 5 on LR. This tells me that a more disciplined approach could cut down 1 or 2.

5.) 100% LG - I started with 100% LG during the 40's and early 50's. After that, it was -1 or -2. I accepted that and it was a mistake. This time I am going in with the -0 mindset.TLS1776, the author of that legendary guide, mentioned ACE the LSAT book for LG - fake games, but extremely tough. I'll be getting that book.

6.) Stamina - No more 4 or 5 section tests; it will be 6 or more sections with multiple RC's. The two RC sections I had in the beginning tired me out and I can't help but think that it had some effect on Sec. 3 LR (my reasoning indicates a massive LR fail, I know)

7.) "Silly mistake" - Esp. LR; two of the questions I missed were in 1-15. Don't know how I will approach this, but I certainly am aware and realize the need to do something about it.


If there any thoughts, suggestions, advice, please fire away. Any or all input is greatly welcome.

seacow
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Re: Calling all past and potential THREE TIME LSAT TAKERS...

Postby seacow » Sat Jul 07, 2012 12:49 pm

shinton88 wrote:
seacow wrote:Finally slammed out a very loose prep schedule. As follows:

I'll start my prep on July 23.

Revision of Strategy
1. Because I use almost pure intuition to solve LGs, I will try to follow my logical processes at solving them so I can avoid mishaps on test day. I can count on one hand the number of times in my prep I have missed a question on a LG section, but I missed one in Dec. and two in June. Ugh.

2. In LR, I'll try to understand all question types in and out. I already have a pretty thorough understand of them all (with exception of Principle questions), and my strategy/approach to LR sections is already maximizes my effectiveness I believe, so I will not have a considerable amount of work to do here.

3. In RC - my worst section - I have failed miserably on the last two administrations (-13, -10 in Dec., June resp.), but this is not how bad I normally do. I normally miss at most -7 on new sections and at most 3/4 on sections I have already seen. I need to revise my strategy to something much more formulaic. I am considering something like spending 4/4.5 minutes on the text and 4/4.5 minutes on the questions, answering the ones that jump out at me and move on. I feel like in June I wasn't confident about a single question in RC, but I think that was because I lacked a deep understanding on the text and consequently guided through most of it. I feel like, with my skill level, I should be able to hit a minimum score of -7 or so simply by a more effective technique.

Mastery of Strategy
I'll work on these three things interchangeably until I have mastered all techniques and have cemented my new habits. I'll do this by un-timed drills.

Execution of Strategy
Once I feel very confident about my new methods, I'll start PT'ing. I'll just do this until test day.

1. I think I'll go back and do some really old ones at first - like PT 15-30. I also think I'll take 8 sections instead of 5. Test (T) 1 Section (S) 1 - 10 minute break - T1S2 - 10 min break - T1S3 - then proceed as normal with T1S4 as T2's Exp. I haven't decided yet if I should continue this trend until test day or just do it at the beginning. My goal in doing this is to build endurance so that I will not be affected by the stresses of test day.

After doing the early PTs, I'll get out the more recent PTs and hammer those out.

I know this sounds like a lot to do but we have 90 days! I'm going to give myself at least* two days off a week (probably 3/4 in the beginning) so to avoid burnout. For all intents and purposes, however, after these 90 days, my law school application process will be over. So I'm going to give this my all.

Sounds like you've thought a lot about this. I would suggest that with respect to LR, you work not only on understanding the question types but understanding them so well that you can answer them very quickly. Certain question types are easier than others, so you want to spend as little time as necessary on these and leave more time for the more difficult question types. Also, for RC, I would be wary of trying to limit myself to a set amount of time for reading the passage. You should definitely try to read as quickly as you can while still grasping the content, but a firm time limit is just one more thing to think about and keep track of when you should be focusing solely on the passage at hand. You have to read the whole thing if you want to answer all of the questions, so putting a time limit on it will only stress you out more, IMO.

Best of luck with your prep!


So true! Thanks for the feedback.

seacow
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Re: Calling all past and potential THREE TIME LSAT TAKERS...

Postby seacow » Sat Jul 07, 2012 1:12 pm

dkb17xzx wrote:Looks like a pretty good plan seacow; thanks for the input shinton.

I don't have a prep start date or through plan yet. But these are things I need to focus on:

1.) Anxiety control - While feeling a little anxious is fine (and keeps me on my toes), I don't wanna feel too anxious. Typically I'd like to be able to approach the entire test as an LG section - with relief and anticipation.

2.) Concentration issues - this screws me over big time in RC. I don't have ADD or any of that, just a massive case of dumbassness. I have started reading dense material again and am forcing myself to read at least an hour straight every day.

3.) RC strategy - need to figure this out. I have the Manhattan RC book and I might even invest in Dave Hall's RC course. I missed 9 on June 2012; without this horrendous section, I would have broken the 170 barrier (I think).

4.) Strategy implementation (for all sections) on test day - When I take PT's, I know the exact approach to an assumption question or a principle question. Come test day, it all goes out the window. Rather than panic or straight reading taking over, I wanna drill down so much on strategy that it becomes instinctive. FWIW, I missed a total of 5 on LR. This tells me that a more disciplined approach could cut down 1 or 2.

5.) 100% LG - I started with 100% LG during the 40's and early 50's. After that, it was -1 or -2. I accepted that and it was a mistake. This time I am going in with the -0 mindset.TLS1776, the author of that legendary guide, mentioned ACE the LSAT book for LG - fake games, but extremely tough. I'll be getting that book.

6.) Stamina - No more 4 or 5 section tests; it will be 6 or more sections with multiple RC's. The two RC sections I had in the beginning tired me out and I can't help but think that it had some effect on Sec. 3 LR (my reasoning indicates a massive LR fail, I know)

7.) "Silly mistake" - Esp. LR; two of the questions I missed were in 1-15. Don't know how I will approach this, but I certainly am aware and realize the need to do something about it.


If there any thoughts, suggestions, advice, please fire away. Any or all input is greatly welcome.



Comments about your game plan, DKB:

2. Reading is definitely a good idea, IMO. I feel like if you are very comfortable with reading - especially if you enjoy it - it can eradicate many problems. Including the silly mistake, concentration, and anxiety.

3. Dave Hall's RC is excellent, I recommend that.

4. As Shinton told me, the goal is to have LSAT come natural. I think characterizing your approach as strategy implementation is the wrong way to go about it. I did this the first time around and I eventually got so exhausted trying to actualize all the plans that I screwed up big time.

5. Good plan. -0 should be automatic.

6. Wholeheartedly agree.

7. From my experience, I've noticed that the vast majority of questions that 90th percentile scorers miss are from silly mistakes. It could be a lapse in judgment, a misread, or a lapse in concentration, but in most cases (s)he immediately realizes his error. I don't think you should classify missing questions like this as "silly mistakes", because of this. Everyone makes them. I would work to enhance your concentration, minimize your anxiety levels, and practice reading "tenaciously" - so to never miss that elusive 'not' in the stimulus, and I think this will be the best way to eradicate "silly mistakes". But don't be hard on yourself if you still have a few on each test.

amf728
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Re: Calling all past and potential THREE TIME LSAT TAKERS...

Postby amf728 » Sun Jul 15, 2012 10:11 am

Checking in with my fellow 3rd time test takers....

I haven't had the motivation to really start my studying yet. I did review the RC Bible, but at this point I feel like some of the passages look too familiar and I don't want to drill them and then take a PT and see the same passage for the 5th or 6th time. I skipped all the drills in order to avoid this and will use the bible to go over the answers on the PT. As before, I plan on taking at least 1 full, timed test a week starting next weekend, and doing 1-2 timed sections during the week nights. I don't really know how else to approach a 3rd time studying since I feel like I have the approaches pretty much memorized and it will just take practice and review to see why I answer things incorrectly.

seacow
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Re: Calling all past and potential THREE TIME LSAT TAKERS...

Postby seacow » Sun Jul 15, 2012 3:26 pm

amf728 wrote:Checking in with my fellow 3rd time test takers....

I haven't had the motivation to really start my studying yet. I did review the RC Bible, but at this point I feel like some of the passages look too familiar and I don't want to drill them and then take a PT and see the same passage for the 5th or 6th time. I skipped all the drills in order to avoid this and will use the bible to go over the answers on the PT. As before, I plan on taking at least 1 full, timed test a week starting next weekend, and doing 1-2 timed sections during the week nights. I don't really know how else to approach a 3rd time studying since I feel like I have the approaches pretty much memorized and it will just take practice and review to see why I answer things incorrectly.



Hey amf,

I also think it will be a little difficult studying with a bunch of PTs I've already seen. I think I've decided just to first work through the less recent PTs, which will be a little less familiar, so I can master the new strategies I'll implement. I figure I'll have 10-40 done around September 1. At that point, I'll have mastered my new approach and will start to plan out the remaining days with more recent tests, which will be slightly less familiar. But with the new strategies already engrained I'll be less likely to base my performance/habits off of my doing of familiar PTs. I am really keen to avoid doing this, I think it was the reason for my disappointing scores the last two times.

archangel326
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Re: Calling all past and potential THREE TIME LSAT TAKERS...

Postby archangel326 » Mon Jul 16, 2012 2:17 pm

1. How did you motivate yourself to go through this again? I understand fear of unemployment is a big one but there has to be something more that drives you to study for this b**** a third time

I got Cancel, 163, and 168. I was PTing consistently 170+ but unfortunately I ALWAYS choke on the real test.

I took Testmasters because I had no motivation. My reasoning for paying for testmasters was this: $1,400 v. scholarship or admission to a better school. I though testmasters could help me with RC, my worst section, and keep my LR and LG sharp,

2. How were you able to convince yourself that you could do better than your test performance (especially for those who saw their score dip on the 2nd take)

When I saw my second test, I was so heartbroken but I realized that I did well on the two LR sections, LG, and that I REALLY bombed RC (-15). My lowest RC score ever before that was -11.

I knew I could do well if I worked on RC. I did. I got -3 on RC on my last LSAT (but totally blew LG), and I'm happy with my LSAT score.

3. How long of a break before the 2nd and the 3rd test?

1 month. (the waiting period for the 2nd LSAT score)

4. How long did you prepare for?

3 months for the third retake. 1 year in total.

5. What was your strategy this time around? How was it different from the first time and the second time (if at all)?

Testmasters.

6. How did three tests affect your admission cycle? Do you feel admins view multiple retakes negatively?

I was waitlisted at Michigan and Georgetown (I am non-URM), but withdrew my applications. Got rejected from a lot of T14s that I think I could have had a shot if I just scored the 168 on my first try! I got into a great school with $$ and I'm VERY happy with the school and the scholarship.

7. How did three retakes affect your scholarship chances, if at all? Did you notice any negative trends in this regard?

Also, this admission cycle is weird because of the 25% decrease in applicants since 2 years ago.

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BmoreOrLess
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Re: Calling all past and potential THREE TIME LSAT TAKERS...

Postby BmoreOrLess » Thu Aug 16, 2012 12:02 pm

Checking in here. Just made the decision to take one final crack at the LSAT in December after doing some soul searching about what I want to do with life since deciding not to attend this fall. I'm hoping this site can bring me some new ideas since I didn't use it for LSAT Prep.

December 2010 - 162
October 2011 - 168
LSAC GPA - 2.95

Shooting for a 173+ to get a shot at GULC, UVA, or NW. My likely targets are BC, BU, Vandy with some money, or if all else fails try to get a full ride at Maryland or a lot of money at GW.

dkb17xzx
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Re: Calling all past and potential THREE TIME LSAT TAKERS...

Postby dkb17xzx » Sat Aug 18, 2012 11:03 am

BmoreOrLess wrote:Checking in here. Just made the decision to take one final crack at the LSAT in December after doing some soul searching about what I want to do with life since deciding not to attend this fall. I'm hoping this site can bring me some new ideas since I didn't use it for LSAT Prep.

December 2010 - 162
October 2011 - 168
LSAC GPA - 2.95

Shooting for a 173+ to get a shot at GULC, UVA, or NW. My likely targets are BC, BU, Vandy with some money, or if all else fails try to get a full ride at Maryland or a lot of money at GW.



doing the December test as well. I need to start prepping soon.




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