needing some positive reinforcement here . . .

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johmica
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needing some positive reinforcement here . . .

Postby johmica » Sun Jun 17, 2012 9:33 am

Man, I bet all the trolls out there just had a cold chill run up their spines as I typed that subject heading . . .

Anyway, I'm diligently studying for the June 2013 LSAT. My wife and I are moving to Chicago in 2014, and I intend to go law school at one of the many prestigious universities there. I'm a non-trad, aged 38, and (hopefully) will be a splitter, with a dismal 3.35 UGPA at a highly-rated regional college (Berea College). My GPA will be 13 years old at the time of my application, so I'm hoping time will wear off some of the sharp edges of my poor performance.

I took a diagnostic LSAT last month. It was a true diagnostic; an actual timed exam without any preparation. I scored a 167, missing four problems in the LG, a combined four in the LR, and four in RC. I then purchased the Powerscore Logic Games Bible, and began spending a couple of hours a night after work carefully going through the material.

I finished the LG Bible early last week and began on the LR Bible.

This brings us to yesterday. I sat down and took another practice exam. While scoring better overall (170), I missed FIVE questions in the LG section, increasing my total missed in this section by one. So, WHAT GIVES?!?!?!?!

I felt pretty confident while completing the section, struggling with only a couple, though time, as always, was an issue. I plan on spending a few hours today going through the four scenarios and working out the problems without the time constraint, but I'd really hoped to see at least some improvement in my score in this section after spending a month of daily study on it.

I still have a year to prepare, so the situation is not yet dire, but I'm fishing for advice, encouragement, anything those of you who've been here can offer. Thanks.

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sinisterkid
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Re: needing some positive reinforcement here . . .

Postby sinisterkid » Sun Jun 17, 2012 9:54 am

If PS Bible doesn't get you the gains you want in LG, look into Velocity prep for LG. Some methods click better for different people. That said, you've only taken 2 PTs. The more games you complete, the better you will do (up to a certain point).

For the positive reinforcement you seek, a 167 and a 170 on your first 2 PTs is a great sign. 175 is well within your potential, I'd say.

Check out lawschoolnumbers.com for your chances at the Chicago schools. In about 30 secs I saw a 3.3/173 in at Chicago and a 3.3/171 in at NW.

Good luck.

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mindarmed
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Re: needing some positive reinforcement here . . .

Postby mindarmed » Sun Jun 17, 2012 10:11 am

johmica wrote:Man, I bet all the trolls out there just had a cold chill run up their spines as I typed that subject heading . . .

Anyway, I'm diligently studying for the June 2013 LSAT. My wife and I are moving to Chicago in 2014, and I intend to go law school at one of the many prestigious universities there. I'm a non-trad, aged 38, and (hopefully) will be a splitter, with a dismal 3.35 UGPA at a highly-rated regional college (Berea College). My GPA will be 13 years old at the time of my application, so I'm hoping time will wear off some of the sharp edges of my poor performance.

I took a diagnostic LSAT last month. It was a true diagnostic; an actual timed exam without any preparation. I scored a 167, missing four problems in the LG, a combined four in the LR, and four in RC. I then purchased the Powerscore Logic Games Bible, and began spending a couple of hours a night after work carefully going through the material.

I finished the LG Bible early last week and began on the LR Bible.

This brings us to yesterday. I sat down and took another practice exam. While scoring better overall (170), I missed FIVE questions in the LG section, increasing my total missed in this section by one. So, WHAT GIVES?!?!?!?!

I felt pretty confident while completing the section, struggling with only a couple, though time, as always, was an issue. I plan on spending a few hours today going through the four scenarios and working out the problems without the time constraint, but I'd really hoped to see at least some improvement in my score in this section after spending a month of daily study on it.

I still have a year to prepare, so the situation is not yet dire, but I'm fishing for advice, encouragement, anything those of you who've been here can offer. Thanks.


Small sample size. Two PTs are not indicative of your true performance on LG. As a 38 year old who has worked for 15+ years, I would expect that you would understand this. Also, why are you starting to prep a year from now? Even working a typical 9-5 it only takes a few month of prep time maximum to prepare for the LSAT.

Edit: Why the Law at 38?

humbugger
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Re: needing some positive reinforcement here . . .

Postby humbugger » Sun Jun 17, 2012 1:04 pm

johmica wrote:Man, I bet all the trolls out there just had a cold chill run up their spines as I typed that subject heading . . .

Anyway, I'm diligently studying for the June 2013 LSAT. My wife and I are moving to Chicago in 2014, and I intend to go law school at one of the many prestigious universities there. I'm a non-trad, aged 38, and (hopefully) will be a splitter, with a dismal 3.35 UGPA at a highly-rated regional college (Berea College). My GPA will be 13 years old at the time of my application, so I'm hoping time will wear off some of the sharp edges of my poor performance.

I took a diagnostic LSAT last month. It was a true diagnostic; an actual timed exam without any preparation. I scored a 167, missing four problems in the LG, a combined four in the LR, and four in RC. I then purchased the Powerscore Logic Games Bible, and began spending a couple of hours a night after work carefully going through the material.

I finished the LG Bible early last week and began on the LR Bible.

This brings us to yesterday. I sat down and took another practice exam. While scoring better overall (170), I missed FIVE questions in the LG section, increasing my total missed in this section by one. So, WHAT GIVES?!?!?!?!

I felt pretty confident while completing the section, struggling with only a couple, though time, as always, was an issue. I plan on spending a few hours today going through the four scenarios and working out the problems without the time constraint, but I'd really hoped to see at least some improvement in my score in this section after spending a month of daily study on it.

I still have a year to prepare, so the situation is not yet dire, but I'm fishing for advice, encouragement, anything those of you who've been here can offer. Thanks.


I'm not a troll but honestly this post raises more questions than it answers. You sound really neurotic and possibly like you have no idea what you're getting into going to law school at 38 (well, 39 really)...

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oaken
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Re: needing some positive reinforcement here . . .

Postby oaken » Sun Jun 17, 2012 1:22 pm

Is this a joke? Sections and entire LSAT tests aren't completely standardized to have the same difficulty, that's why the test is curved. But even if they WERE, why would you bother making a post because you went from -4 to -5?

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johmica
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Re: needing some positive reinforcement here . . .

Postby johmica » Sun Jun 17, 2012 3:24 pm

OK,

@sinisterkid - Thanks for the reply.

@armedwithamind - If a month or two is sufficient time to prepare for the LSAT, then why did a month's studying for the Logic Games section yield negative results? My actual score will not arise from averaging an aggregate of tests I've taken - it will be the result of my performance on a single test. So one would hope that a month's work would yield results on the single test immediately following said work. Right? As for the amount of time I spend studying prior to the exam, there's no reason why I couldn't take the test in January, or even in October, if my practice test results have improved to my satisfaction. The June date is simply the latest date I could register for the test and still matriculate in Fall '14.

@oaken - I think I addressed some of your question in my reply above. If I'd taken two practice exams with no study time between, then the difference of -1 or -2 would be understandable. But one would hope that a month's time spent learning the calculus of Powerscore's method and carefully working through the examples in the book would have resulted in a slight improvement in my score on the section. Your point about varying difficulty levels from test to test is well-taken, though. Of course I'm aware of why differing raw scores from test to test lead to differing corresponding weighted scores, but I hadn't really thought about the possibility (or probability, I suppose), that the adjustment is an exam-wide adjustment toward the curve, and not a section-by-section adjustment. So, Thanks for the input!!! I mean, I did score three point higher overall, right?

@humbugger - [insert Psycho music here]

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Nova
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Re: needing some positive reinforcement here . . .

Postby Nova » Sun Jun 17, 2012 4:49 pm

Margin of error, bro. According to LSAC, the LSAT score band is +/-3 points (meaning scoreing 170 on any given test means that you would score between 167 and 173 66% of the time). Missing one extra question in a section is not a big deal at all. Some AR sections are hell. Some are cake.

As for positive reinforment, AR is the easiest section to master (-0). I was missing 8 to 10 on AR when I started. I did every game a few times and by test day I was consistantly missing close to 0.

maxmartin
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Re: needing some positive reinforcement here . . .

Postby maxmartin » Sun Jun 17, 2012 8:08 pm

[quote="johmica"]OK,

@sinisterkid - Thanks for the reply.

@armedwithamind - If a month or two is sufficient time to prepare for the LSAT, then why did a month's studying for the Logic Games section yield negative results? My actual score will not arise from averaging an aggregate of tests I've taken - it will be the result of my performance on a single test. So one would hope that a month's work would yield results on the single test immediately following said work. Right? As for the amount of time I spend studying prior to the exam, there's no reason why I couldn't take the test in January, or even in October, if my practice test results have improved to my satisfaction. The June date is simply the latest date I could register for the test and still matriculate in Fall '14.

Everybody is different, there is no rule saying you have to gain certain points after the study, some people can gain more than 10 points, some may PT almost the same level as before. Personally powerscore did not help me much, after a month using it I PT about the same as before using. BTW, 167 to 170 is a huge gain, if it is consistent.

humbugger
Posts: 47
Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2012 10:08 pm

Re: needing some positive reinforcement here . . .

Postby humbugger » Mon Jun 18, 2012 12:33 am

johmica wrote:
@humbugger - [insert Psycho music here]


Wanna hear a scary story? Over the course of my LSAT prep before the recent test, my LG improved significantly. For awhile I was getting around -3 per section, but on the preptests I took the week before the test I calmed down and started to get -0. On the Friday before the actual LSAT I went to the room where the test was to take place and did my last practice test. Bombed the crap out of the games. Something like -10 and I didn't even bubble all my answers.

You've got a year, man. Relax.

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johmica
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Re: needing some positive reinforcement here . . .

Postby johmica » Mon Jun 18, 2012 6:15 am

Again, thanks for the replies.

Now, nose back to the grindstone . . .

UltraNonTraditional
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Re: needing some positive reinforcement here . . .

Postby UltraNonTraditional » Mon Jun 18, 2012 3:53 pm

armedwithamind wrote:Edit: Why the Law at 38?


Why not?

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MavEryck
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Re: needing some positive reinforcement here . . .

Postby MavEryck » Mon Jun 18, 2012 10:48 pm

Hello,

:shock:

Do not... I repeat DO NOT wait until June 2013 to take the LSAT if that is truly the last opportunity to test and matriculate for Fall 2014 at the school(s) you want to attend.

Waiting until the last chance is a very bad idea when it comes to most things but especially the LSAT!

You may experience test anxiety, have the flu, or any number of other things that could cause a poor performance. (God forbid you have a death in the family the week before...and yes, that kind of stuff happens!)

Take the test when you feel adequately prepared...far in advance of the last opportunity. At least if you bomb for some reason, you can retake and include an addendum regarding the low score.

If you wait until that last chance and something happens... you'll be in a very bad position. fyi

My $.02

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cc.celina
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Re: needing some positive reinforcement here . . .

Postby cc.celina » Mon Jun 18, 2012 10:51 pm

I second the above poster. Having extra time in which you could possibly retake takes a lot of the stress out of it and helps you perform better. If you are PTing around/above where you want to be before then, then go for it.

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johmica
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Re: needing some positive reinforcement here . . .

Postby johmica » Wed Jun 20, 2012 7:40 pm

Seems like sound advice to me. I doubt I'm up for the September/October date, but I may shoot for January.

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radar714
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Re: needing some positive reinforcement here . . .

Postby radar714 » Wed Jun 20, 2012 9:24 pm

OP: I struggle through the same problem of expecting incremental gains throughout the studying process, but the one thing i've learned about the LSAT is that in order to truly beat the test, you have to master all the curve balls it will throw at you, and that process involves exposing yourself to all of the LSAT's tricks. With respect to LG, this means that you're going to encounter some games sections that are easier for you than others (and this could even happen after several months of studying) and in order to overcome the disparities between PTs you just have to familiarize yourself with all of the game types. Many LSAT teachers will say that some students have an inherent propensity for either grouping or ordering (I tend to prefer ordering) for whatever reason, but remember that just because you had a bad games section it does not mean that you are not improving, but rather that you have simply discovered another one of the LSATs tricks. Once you do 30+ Full games sections, you'll start to get the hang of making deductions and your score should become more consistent. For instance, I almost always get -0/-1 on games, but sometimes i'll come across one that I have not encountered yet and it will take me a little longer to come up with a good setup, subsequently costing me more precious time that will then lead to hurried answers and careless errors.

PS I completely agree that you should not wait till june 2013 when you could take any one of the 3 tests before it so you get at least 1 more chance on the test in case something goes wrong (EX: you could get a particularly difficult games section). Also, be happy with your initial diag because with a little more work you will virtually be guaranteed a 172+!




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