Intelligent, but just can't seem to score high on LSAT

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RVP11
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Re: Intelligent, but just can't seem to score high on LSAT

Postby RVP11 » Tue Jun 12, 2012 9:21 pm

Aequitas_ wrote:Gifted as child which already is a prereq of 132 for IQ. Magnet program throughout high school. Honors program at my university, UCI.


IQ tests administered during childhood aren't that accurate, bro. Brainpower increases in spurts, not gradually, so if you were tested during or immediately after a spurt the test could have wildly overestimated your adult IQ. It's because of this that thousands of people go through school in "gifted" programs only to end up being average.

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afnaidel
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Re: Intelligent, but just can't seem to score high on LSAT

Postby afnaidel » Tue Jun 12, 2012 9:24 pm

Wow, reading this post makes me think that I might not be as much of an arrogant S.O.B. as I thought I was.

I was also going to leave a "constructive" response, but your last post blew my mind off. You might want to learn the concept of courtesy.

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Icculus
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Re: Intelligent, but just can't seem to score high on LSAT

Postby Icculus » Tue Jun 12, 2012 9:32 pm

Aequitas_ wrote:My IQ is in the top 99th percentile and have always been in advanced classes/curriculums and have always had very high marks without much effort.


Aequitas_ wrote:132+ isnt genius, never claimed that.


So are you a genius or not? My guess.....not.

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thelawyler
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Re: Intelligent, but just can't seem to score high on LSAT

Postby thelawyler » Tue Jun 12, 2012 9:33 pm

Aequitas_ wrote:Thanks for any constructive responses. As for the trolls, you can piss off. 132+ isnt genius, never claimed that. Yea i plan on hacking away at it over the summer. I made a much bigger jump on my own than with that prep course. Not really a splitter for lower end of t20. Also, i am giving prep course a shot - just not the one k took. My friend who is currently taking kaplan and took that course with me ( he convinced me to take the first one with him ) explained the difference in quality. I got cheap about it and wanted to save $400 versus kaplan, testmasters. Ill be taking one of the big 4 in the summer and look forward to the help.


People who go to Harvard for college score an average of 166. Other Ivies and elite ugrad schools score in the 163-165 range.

Just because you're smart does not mean you are entitled to a 170+ score, as many of those people who went to those elite undergrads were undoubtedly in those same gifted programs you were (and probably beat you while in there, which is how they ended up at the elite schools).

So you asked what an intelligent person can do to improve his/her LSAT score? Well... basically, this is a great time to learn some humility. That will not only help you improve your score, but improve your life. And you're welcome.
Last edited by thelawyler on Tue Jun 12, 2012 9:37 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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naillsat
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Re: Intelligent, but just can't seem to score high on LSAT

Postby naillsat » Tue Jun 12, 2012 9:34 pm

OP, are you booksmart or streetsmart? from what I know, LSAT is beyong these two smartnesses. Sometimes, LSAT is more like a smartass to me. For example: a membership is required for renting skis at the university club if you want to rent for two consecutive days. However, David can rent skis for four days in a row. How to solve this paradox? the LSAT answer usually goes something like this: Because David is not a member of the club, and the club also offers rental to non-members at a higher price for as many days as they want. To me, this kind of answer is like a damn smartass. If you are used to this kind of thinking, you won't perform well.

Being intelligent is a good thing, as long as you are not stubborn with your intelligence, you can perform well on the LSAT with flexible thinking. just my $0.02

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dingbat
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Re: Intelligent, but just can't seem to score high on LSAT

Postby dingbat » Tue Jun 12, 2012 9:36 pm

2012JayDee wrote:You may be the President of MENSA but without constant preparation you're not going to do well on the LSAT

I call BS. With no prep, my first practice test was well enough to qualify me for MENSA.
Aequitas_ wrote:Gifted as child which already is a prereq of 132 for IQ

IQ measured as a child is relative for the age; it could just be that you were smart for your age. It should be measured again as an adult.

On a separate note, 99th percentile IQ is not sufficient to get 98th percentile LSAT. 99th percentile IQ is about a 167, whereas 98th percentile LSAT is about 170.
Aequitas_ wrote:Magnet program throughout high school. Honors program at my university, UCI.
I guess you're not as special a snowflake as you thought you were.
Having above average intelligence allows you to cruise through high school, but there are a lot of people smarter than you.
For some quick math, there are approximately 300 million people in the U.S.
That means that approximately 3 million are in the 99th percentile of intelligence.

This is why many people are shocked when they get to law school and end up median - high school was a breeze, honors at college, but, holy crap batman, everyone in law school is equally gifted and now you're competing against intellectual peers.

but don't worry:
RedBirds2011 wrote:There really are different types of intelligence.

thelawyler wrote:this is a great time to learn some humility. And you're welcome.

Harlyn
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Re: Intelligent, but just can't seem to score high on LSAT

Postby Harlyn » Tue Jun 12, 2012 9:39 pm

JamMasterJ wrote:are you sure you don't just have an iq of 99?

Aequitas_
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Re: Intelligent, but just can't seem to score high on LSAT

Postby Aequitas_ » Tue Jun 12, 2012 9:40 pm

I really dont have anything to prove here. Obvious that trolls would get angry. Who cares whether or not i am smart. Like lol @ ppl trying to put me down. Glad to know you care that much to try to get a quick boost in self esteem under the justification to teach me a lesson. Point is, what do you recommend to an individual who DOES have a high mental capacity but is struggling with the exam? Courtesy isnt given to people who dont show respect. Appreciate responses from people who are trying to help or provide insight.
Last edited by Aequitas_ on Tue Jun 12, 2012 9:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.

VasaVasori
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.

Postby VasaVasori » Tue Jun 12, 2012 9:42 pm

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Last edited by VasaVasori on Sat May 02, 2015 10:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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piccolittle
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Re: Intelligent, but just can't seem to score high on LSAT

Postby piccolittle » Tue Jun 12, 2012 9:43 pm

dingbat wrote:
2012JayDee wrote:You may be the President of MENSA but without constant preparation you're not going to do well on the LSAT

I call BS. With no prep, my first practice test was well enough to qualify me for MENSA.

Wow, logic and grammar fail. Sorry, really couldn't help it.

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Mr.Binks
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Re: Intelligent, but just can't seem to score high on LSAT

Postby Mr.Binks » Tue Jun 12, 2012 9:44 pm

Aequitas_ wrote:I really dont have anything to prove here. Obvious that trolls would get angry. Who cares whether or not i am smart. Like lol @ ppl trying to put me down. Glad to know you care that much to try to get a quick boost in self esteem under the justification to teach me a lesson. Point is, what do you recommend to an individual who DOES have a high mental capacity but is struggling with the exam? Courtesy isnt given to people who dont show respect. Appreciate responses from people who are trying to help or provide insight.


I think tcr is to study. Effectively.

Harlyn
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Re: Intelligent, but just can't seem to score high on LSAT

Postby Harlyn » Tue Jun 12, 2012 9:45 pm

Aequitas_ wrote:I really dont have anything to prove here. Obvious that trolls would get angry. Who cares whether or not i am smart. Like lol @ ppl trying to put me down. Glad to know you care that much to try to get a quick boost in self esteem. Point is, what do you recommend to an individual who DOES have a high mental capacity but is struggling with the exam? Courtesy isnt given to people who dont show respect. Appreciate responses from people who are trying to help or provide insight.

Perhaps you should look elsewhere for help, I've never been in a "gifted" class but after using the suggested study plans that are available in this forum, I was able to earn a 168. It's very difficult for us to ascertain why you're having trouble getting into the 160s based on the information that you've given us.

Glaucon
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Re: Intelligent, but just can't seem to score high on LSAT

Postby Glaucon » Tue Jun 12, 2012 9:45 pm

Aequitas, My IQ's 140... Let me tell you something; there's no good correlation between IQ and LSAT, or vice versa. If you do not believe me, you should contact the folks at MENSA and they will enlighten you of the fact that while some ultra-high IQ societies use a GRE score in place of an IQ admissions test, almost none accept the LSATs. I've heard of people with an IQ of 155 that have only scored in the 157 range on the LSAT. The reverse of this is also true, do not let anyone tell you that they're smarter than you are because they've scored higher on the LSATs than you did. Do not believe ignorant posters online that attempt to present a correlation between LSAT scores and IQ. That aside, an IQ score is not really indicative of much; atleast not more indicative than what the LSAT could be said to be indicative of. To be considered a prodigy you need to have an IQ around 170... Anything less means that hardwork is required for you to do or contribute anything meaningful in/to life. Dingbat, if what you mean by "99th percentile IQ" is the top 1% of the population, then that IQ is not 167... It's around 147...

Aequitas_
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Re: Intelligent, but just can't seem to score high on LSAT

Postby Aequitas_ » Tue Jun 12, 2012 9:46 pm

Yea, was unnecessary. Agreed. Just my ego there. Couldve just asked the question. 98th* youre right.

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TheRainMan
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Re: Intelligent, but just can't seem to score high on LSAT

Postby TheRainMan » Tue Jun 12, 2012 10:01 pm

Aequitas_ wrote:[...] I'd like to think I'm pretty intelligent [...] Diag score was 143 [...] I'm now hovering around low 150s to mid 150s.


You like to think incorrectly.

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Wily
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Re: Intelligent, but just can't seem to score high on LSAT

Postby Wily » Tue Jun 12, 2012 10:10 pm

The LSAT is a different beast from aptitude tests. I was also in "gifted" classes as a kid, scored a 1600 on the SAT in 10th grade, went to HYP, and got a 176 my first taking of the LSAT back in '06 without prepping. But, that was all when I was younger. Now, 6 years after my first taking, I only got a 165 and 168 on my takings in the fall, and am hoping just to break 170 now in the June exam. The LSAT is NOT a straight test of general intelligence. It tests for the specific skills of dissecting arguments, critical reading, and logical manipulation, and also a quite a bit of stamina and concentration abilities.

It's also quite study-able, to the extent that people who start off with 140's can hit 160's to 170's with enough time. Inversely, those who didn't study enough (like me) can find their scores dropping from from 170's to 160's over time, especially if their stamina and focus decline like mine did because of my "advanced" age. Point is, study your ass off like the good people in his forum can show you how to, and you'll markedly improve. Don't, and it's a huge crapshoot, and most likely you'll lose.

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dingbat
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Re: Intelligent, but just can't seem to score high on LSAT

Postby dingbat » Tue Jun 12, 2012 10:11 pm

Glaucon wrote:Aequitas, My IQ's 140... Let me tell you something; there's no good correlation between IQ and LSAT, or vice versa. If you do not believe me, you should contact the folks at MENSA and they will enlighten you of the fact that while some ultra-high IQ societies use a GRE score in place of an IQ admissions test, almost none accept the LSATs. I've heard of people with an IQ of 155 that have only scored in the 157 range on the LSAT. The reverse of this is also true, do not let anyone tell you that they're smarter than you are because they've scored higher on the LSATs than you did. Do not believe ignorant posters online that attempt to present a correlation between LSAT scores and IQ. That aside, an IQ score is not really indicative of much; atleast not more indicative than what the LSAT could be said to be indicative of. To be considered a prodigy you need to have an IQ around 170... Anything less means that hardwork is required for you to do or contribute anything meaningful in/to life. Dingbat, if what you mean by "99th percentile IQ" is the top 1% of the population, then that IQ is not 167... It's around 147...

MENSA, which has a 99th percentile IQ requirement for membership will accept an LSAT score of 167 as proof that you meet that requirement.
Aequitas_ wrote:what do you recommend to an individual who DOES have a high mental capacity but is struggling with the exam?
Honestly, if someone is struggling with the exam after taking courses and studying properly, I have trouble believing that the individual DOES have a high mental capacity.

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hereyago
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Re: Intelligent, but just can't seem to score high on LSAT

Postby hereyago » Tue Jun 12, 2012 10:15 pm

Wily wrote:The LSAT is a different beast from aptitude tests. I was also in "gifted" classes as a kid, scored a 1600 on the SAT in 10th grade, went to HYP, and got a 176 my first taking of the LSAT back in '06 without prepping. But, that was all when I was younger. Now, 6 years after my first taking, I only got a 165 and 168 on my takings in the fall, and am hoping just to break 170 now in the June exam. The LSAT is NOT a straight test of general intelligence. It tests for the specific skills of dissecting arguments, critical reading, and logical manipulation, and also a quite a bit of stamina and concentration abilities.

It's also quite study-able, to the extent that people who start off with 140's can hit 160's to 170's with enough time. Inversely, those who didn't study enough (like me) can find their scores dropping from from 170's to 160's over time, especially if their stamina and focus decline like mine did because of my "advanced" age. Point is, study your ass off like the good people in his forum can show you how to, and you'll markedly improve. Don't, and it's a huge crapshoot, and most likely you'll lose.


You serious?

What happened to you during the 6 years? What did you do?

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Wily
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Re: Intelligent, but just can't seem to score high on LSAT

Postby Wily » Tue Jun 12, 2012 10:16 pm

hereyago wrote:
Wily wrote:The LSAT is a different beast from aptitude tests. I was also in "gifted" classes as a kid, scored a 1600 on the SAT in 10th grade, went to HYP, and got a 176 my first taking of the LSAT back in '06 without prepping. But, that was all when I was younger. Now, 6 years after my first taking, I only got a 165 and 168 on my takings in the fall, and am hoping just to break 170 now in the June exam. The LSAT is NOT a straight test of general intelligence. It tests for the specific skills of dissecting arguments, critical reading, and logical manipulation, and also a quite a bit of stamina and concentration abilities.

It's also quite study-able, to the extent that people who start off with 140's can hit 160's to 170's with enough time. Inversely, those who didn't study enough (like me) can find their scores dropping from from 170's to 160's over time, especially if their stamina and focus decline like mine did because of my "advanced" age. Point is, study your ass off like the good people in his forum can show you how to, and you'll markedly improve. Don't, and it's a huge crapshoot, and most likely you'll lose.


You serious?

What happened to you during the 6 years? What did you do?


Aged. I think the LSAT is for younguns :roll:

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hereyago
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Re: Intelligent, but just can't seem to score high on LSAT

Postby hereyago » Tue Jun 12, 2012 10:17 pm

Wily wrote:
hereyago wrote:
Wily wrote:The LSAT is a different beast from aptitude tests. I was also in "gifted" classes as a kid, scored a 1600 on the SAT in 10th grade, went to HYP, and got a 176 my first taking of the LSAT back in '06 without prepping. But, that was all when I was younger. Now, 6 years after my first taking, I only got a 165 and 168 on my takings in the fall, and am hoping just to break 170 now in the June exam. The LSAT is NOT a straight test of general intelligence. It tests for the specific skills of dissecting arguments, critical reading, and logical manipulation, and also a quite a bit of stamina and concentration abilities.

It's also quite study-able, to the extent that people who start off with 140's can hit 160's to 170's with enough time. Inversely, those who didn't study enough (like me) can find their scores dropping from from 170's to 160's over time, especially if their stamina and focus decline like mine did because of my "advanced" age. Point is, study your ass off like the good people in his forum can show you how to, and you'll markedly improve. Don't, and it's a huge crapshoot, and most likely you'll lose.


You serious?

What happened to you during the 6 years? What did you do?


Aged. I think the LSAT is for younguns :roll:


Well what kind of stuff did you do during the 6 years off though?

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Mr. Pancakes
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Re: Intelligent, but just can't seem to score high on LSAT

Postby Mr. Pancakes » Tue Jun 12, 2012 10:18 pm

Huff gasoline?

Glaucon
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Re: Intelligent, but just can't seem to score high on LSAT

Postby Glaucon » Tue Jun 12, 2012 10:20 pm

"On a separate note, 99th percentile IQ is not sufficient to get 98th percentile LSAT. 99th percentile IQ is about a 167, whereas 98th percentile LSAT is about 170." Ah, my mistake. I skimmed your response and mistook "99th percentile IQ" to have been correlated to an IQ SCORE of 167... Still, MENSA is the top 2% of IQ test-takers, not the top 1%. A LSAT score of 167 is about 95th percentile of LSAT test takers... MENSA assumes that LSAT test takers are more intelligent than the average person and so accepts the top 5% of those in that pool. However, I can't be certain how they came up with the top 5% figure..

LOLyer
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Re: Intelligent, but just can't seem to score high on LSAT

Postby LOLyer » Tue Jun 12, 2012 10:21 pm

The LSAT measures how (1) fast your brain operates (2) using a certain process. That process being logic.

An IQ test simply measures how fast your brain operates. Similarly, school grades reflect how well you've learned the material. You simply need to learn how to use logic. Specifically, the type of logic the LSAT tests.

Total Litigator
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Re: Intelligent, but just can't seem to score high on LSAT

Postby Total Litigator » Tue Jun 12, 2012 10:22 pm

I am sort of the same way. I think sometimes smart people who feel that they are overqualified for their undergrad coast through undergrad without working hard, studying, or, when it comes down to it, learning. I think that this four year period of relative intellectual stagnation really kills your ability to compete on post-grad standardized exams.

Your parents forced you to take your schooling seriously in high school, and this translated into a high SAT score relative to your peers back then. However, you slacked in college, thinking you could coast through. Now your once "inferior" peers are now your intellectual superiors. There is a little bit of self projection here, but I would put money on it being a good diagnosis of your situation. The only remedy is to sit down, learn some self-discipline, and start taking shit seriously. On a good note, you seem to be making progress. You seem like you are on the edge of realizing that, perhaps, you are not a unique and special snowflake.

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Scotchandsoda
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Re: Intelligent, but just can't seem to score high on LSAT

Postby Scotchandsoda » Tue Jun 12, 2012 10:35 pm

Aequitas_ wrote:I really dont have anything to prove here. Obvious that trolls would get angry. Who cares whether or not i am smart. Like lol @ ppl trying to put me down. Glad to know you care that much to try to get a quick boost in self esteem under the justification to teach me a lesson. Point is, what do you recommend to an individual who DOES have a high mental capacity but is struggling with the exam? Courtesy isnt given to people who dont show respect. Appreciate responses from people who are trying to help or provide insight.


All you can really do is study harder. Simple as that. Find whatever section you're the most weakest on, then review it. Check out 7sage.com. They break EVERY single type of problem down in great detail, and it's very cheap. Best of luck!




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