Having a lot of room on LG

msquaredb
Posts: 112
Joined: Tue May 22, 2012 9:19 am

Re: Having a lot of room on LG

Postby msquaredb » Tue Jun 12, 2012 11:22 am

princeR wrote:Fucked me up good. For some reason I was compelled to hypothetical EVERYTHING knowing that I had room. This caused me to waste way too much time. Fuck LSAC.


Truth

User avatar
LexLeon
Posts: 400
Joined: Fri Oct 07, 2011 11:03 pm

Re: Having a lot of room on LG

Postby LexLeon » Tue Jun 12, 2012 11:51 am

Someone might have posted something like this already, but:

I conjecture that LSAC thought this arrangement would be a service to test takers, that in the standard format, for a considerable amount of people, there's not enough room to effectively diagram.

But I'd have to say that I disagree, and that there only seems to be insufficient space on 7 question games with wordy questions and answers, if at all--let alone 5 question games.

The arrangement, for me, was surprising and, for a few moments, confusing. I am used to seeing all of my work within a few inches of all of the questions.

The need to hold it in one's mind for more time and space while working on the questions must cause worse performance than usual, for a considerable amount of people.

In theory, this prima facie shouldn't change much when it comes to the calculation of a percentile score, as the difference may have affected the vast majority of people to a comparable extent. However, the post I read about left handed test takers leads me to believe that this might not be the case.

Even if an estimation of left handed takers on the low end is considered (around 10%, but LSAC might have exact numbers, as they ask about handedness), that percentage may have been at a significant disadvantage due to the change.

I'd like to hear an official (LSAC) rationale or opinion on the matter.

User avatar
dsb83
Posts: 153
Joined: Wed Sep 01, 2010 3:57 pm

Re: Having a lot of room on LG

Postby dsb83 » Tue Jun 12, 2012 11:55 am

I think the lefties have a real beef. They really should have notified everyone of the change, so lefties could practice diagramming on the right.

msquaredb
Posts: 112
Joined: Tue May 22, 2012 9:19 am

Re: Having a lot of room on LG

Postby msquaredb » Tue Jun 12, 2012 11:58 am

Where should I direct my complaint about the handedness issue? I have something drafted, but I am not sure if I should send it to test center complaint email. There doesn't seem to be an easy avenue for general test complaints.

User avatar
dsb83
Posts: 153
Joined: Wed Sep 01, 2010 3:57 pm

Re: Having a lot of room on LG

Postby dsb83 » Tue Jun 12, 2012 12:06 pm

I would find a way to send it more directly than the test center complaints...most of those are probably just filed away and used for future center and proctor selection. Emphasize that it amounts to discrimination.

msquaredb
Posts: 112
Joined: Tue May 22, 2012 9:19 am

Re: Having a lot of room on LG

Postby msquaredb » Tue Jun 12, 2012 12:46 pm

dsb83 wrote:I would find a way to send it more directly than the test center complaints...most of those are probably just filed away and used for future center and proctor selection. Emphasize that it amounts to discrimination.


Just called and they gave me a direct fax number. I don't know what will come of this, but I hope they change it for the next exam. Obviously, I don't expect them to do anything for me, but do you think they would consider it when they do their magic statistics?

Taus11
Posts: 64
Joined: Tue Jan 03, 2012 5:05 am

Re: Having a lot of room on LG

Postby Taus11 » Tue Jun 12, 2012 12:53 pm

msquaredb wrote:
dsb83 wrote:I would find a way to send it more directly than the test center complaints...most of those are probably just filed away and used for future center and proctor selection. Emphasize that it amounts to discrimination.


Just called and they gave me a direct fax number. I don't know what will come of this, but I hope they change it for the next exam. Obviously, I don't expect them to do anything for me, but do you think they would consider it when they do their magic statistics?

Probably not. This just doesn't make sense to me. I know some of you weren't comfortable with it (I wasn't either when I first turned into it, none of us were), particularly those of you left-handed, but would you really rather go back to the space-crammed format? I very much appreciated the amount of space given, and what if writing complaints actually changes it back? I doubt it will, but still. Wouldn't you rather get used to it than have to worry about having no space and not being able to fit in hypothetical situations or whatever? I mean, you would rather not write on the right side of the page and deal with limited space instead?

msquaredb
Posts: 112
Joined: Tue May 22, 2012 9:19 am

Re: Having a lot of room on LG

Postby msquaredb » Tue Jun 12, 2012 12:59 pm

Taus11 wrote:
msquaredb wrote:
dsb83 wrote:I would find a way to send it more directly than the test center complaints...most of those are probably just filed away and used for future center and proctor selection. Emphasize that it amounts to discrimination.


Just called and they gave me a direct fax number. I don't know what will come of this, but I hope they change it for the next exam. Obviously, I don't expect them to do anything for me, but do you think they would consider it when they do their magic statistics?

Probably not. This just doesn't make sense to me. I know some of you weren't comfortable with it (I wasn't either when I first turned into it, none of us were), particularly those of you left-handed, but would you really rather go back to the space-crammed format? I very much appreciated the amount of space given, and what if writing complaints actually changes it back? I doubt it will, but still. Wouldn't you rather get used to it than have to worry about having no space and not being able to fit in hypothetical situations or whatever? I mean, you would rather not write on the right side of the page and deal with limited space instead?


I would much rather have it on one page. It keeps the main diagram closer which is beneficial.

I guess if you can't put yourself in a leftie's shoes then I can't explain it to you. It was a MAJOR inconvenience and it affected a specific group and not others, so I consider it a big deal.

User avatar
Bildungsroman
Posts: 5548
Joined: Sun Apr 11, 2010 2:42 pm

Re: Having a lot of room on LG

Postby Bildungsroman » Tue Jun 12, 2012 1:07 pm

What the fuck is wrong with you people? I constantly hear bitching about how little room there is to diagram on logic games, and then when LSAC gives you plenty of room there's petulant bitching about this way, too! I wouldn't recommend complaining to LSAC, because 1. It will make you sound like a retard, and 2. complaining about positive change just disincentivizes making positive change.

dsb83 wrote:I would find a way to send it more directly than the test center complaints...most of those are probably just filed away and used for future center and proctor selection. Emphasize that it amounts to discrimination.

lol just lol. Nobody cares about discrimination against lefties, and a test format that gives you extra space on the right is not discrimination anyway.

User avatar
princeR
Posts: 308
Joined: Mon Dec 05, 2011 4:10 pm

Re: Having a lot of room on LG

Postby princeR » Tue Jun 12, 2012 1:12 pm

Bildungsroman wrote:What the fuck is wrong with you people? I constantly hear bitching about how little room there is to diagram on logic games, and then when LSAC gives you plenty of room there's petulant bitching about this way, too! I wouldn't recommend complaining to LSAC, because 1. It will make you sound like a retard, and 2. complaining about positive change just disincentivizes making positive change.

dsb83 wrote:I would find a way to send it more directly than the test center complaints...most of those are probably just filed away and used for future center and proctor selection. Emphasize that it amounts to discrimination.

lol just lol. Nobody cares about discrimination against lefties, and a test format that gives you extra space on the right is not discrimination anyway.

I think it just has more to do with the fact that it was very unexpected and threw a lot of us off. Also, I didn't realize until the 4th game that I should make my diagram on the 2nd page so I can answer the questions easier. Seriously, if you saw it, you would know. It was pretty fucking crazy looking.

User avatar
Bildungsroman
Posts: 5548
Joined: Sun Apr 11, 2010 2:42 pm

Re: Having a lot of room on LG

Postby Bildungsroman » Tue Jun 12, 2012 1:14 pm

princeR wrote:
Bildungsroman wrote:What the fuck is wrong with you people? I constantly hear bitching about how little room there is to diagram on logic games, and then when LSAC gives you plenty of room there's petulant bitching about this way, too! I wouldn't recommend complaining to LSAC, because 1. It will make you sound like a retard, and 2. complaining about positive change just disincentivizes making positive change.

dsb83 wrote:I would find a way to send it more directly than the test center complaints...most of those are probably just filed away and used for future center and proctor selection. Emphasize that it amounts to discrimination.

lol just lol. Nobody cares about discrimination against lefties, and a test format that gives you extra space on the right is not discrimination anyway.

I think it just has more to do with the fact that it was very unexpected and threw a lot of us off. Also, I didn't realize until the 4th game that I should make my diagram on the 2nd page so I can answer the questions easier. Seriously, if you saw it, you would know. It was pretty fucking crazy looking.

You were that thrown off by there being more room than usual? Now I think this was a really positive change, as those of you who were so thrown deserve lower scores relative to those people who can endure minor changes without having an anxiety attack.

msquaredb
Posts: 112
Joined: Tue May 22, 2012 9:19 am

Re: Having a lot of room on LG

Postby msquaredb » Tue Jun 12, 2012 1:48 pm

Bildungsroman wrote:
princeR wrote:
Bildungsroman wrote:What the fuck is wrong with you people? I constantly hear bitching about how little room there is to diagram on logic games, and then when LSAC gives you plenty of room there's petulant bitching about this way, too! I wouldn't recommend complaining to LSAC, because 1. It will make you sound like a retard, and 2. complaining about positive change just disincentivizes making positive change.

dsb83 wrote:I would find a way to send it more directly than the test center complaints...most of those are probably just filed away and used for future center and proctor selection. Emphasize that it amounts to discrimination.

lol just lol. Nobody cares about discrimination against lefties, and a test format that gives you extra space on the right is not discrimination anyway.

I think it just has more to do with the fact that it was very unexpected and threw a lot of us off. Also, I didn't realize until the 4th game that I should make my diagram on the 2nd page so I can answer the questions easier. Seriously, if you saw it, you would know. It was pretty fucking crazy looking.

You were that thrown off by there being more room than usual? Now I think this was a really positive change, as those of you who were so thrown deserve lower scores relative to those people who can endure minor changes without having an anxiety attack.


My point is that the change wasn't the same for everybody because of a biological factor. Also, doesn't LSAC ask if you are left-handed so they can have appropriate seating for you? Maybe I'm wrong and they just like you to fill out an extra bubble, but it seems they do give a shit about lefties.

User avatar
hereyago
Posts: 104
Joined: Fri Jun 17, 2011 5:02 pm

Re: Having a lot of room on LG

Postby hereyago » Tue Jun 12, 2012 2:05 pm

Bildungsroman wrote:
princeR wrote:
Bildungsroman wrote:What the fuck is wrong with you people? I constantly hear bitching about how little room there is to diagram on logic games, and then when LSAC gives you plenty of room there's petulant bitching about this way, too! I wouldn't recommend complaining to LSAC, because 1. It will make you sound like a retard, and 2. complaining about positive change just disincentivizes making positive change.

dsb83 wrote:I would find a way to send it more directly than the test center complaints...most of those are probably just filed away and used for future center and proctor selection. Emphasize that it amounts to discrimination.

lol just lol. Nobody cares about discrimination against lefties, and a test format that gives you extra space on the right is not discrimination anyway.

I think it just has more to do with the fact that it was very unexpected and threw a lot of us off. Also, I didn't realize until the 4th game that I should make my diagram on the 2nd page so I can answer the questions easier. Seriously, if you saw it, you would know. It was pretty fucking crazy looking.

You were that thrown off by there being more room than usual? Now I think this was a really positive change, as those of you who were so thrown deserve lower scores relative to those people who can endure minor changes without having an anxiety attack.


It's definitely a positive change. I think what's making people complain right now is the fact that it was unexpected. It made me go "wtf?" for a second when I saw it too. But it didn't faze me and the extra space helped.

User avatar
ned
Posts: 264
Joined: Sun Feb 05, 2012 1:47 pm

Re: Having a lot of room on LG

Postby ned » Tue Jun 12, 2012 3:52 pm

They weren't "wrong" to make the change they made. But I wish they'd released a practice LG section with the new layout prior to this test. They introduced a change that will certainly have an uneven impact on scores. And it will mainly have an impact on people who studied extensively but still struggle with LG, and people who are left-handed. If you didn't study, or if you are at home with LG, you don't care about such changes, if you're right-handed....

User avatar
shifty_eyed
Posts: 1934
Joined: Fri Oct 02, 2009 8:09 pm

Re: Having a lot of room on LG

Postby shifty_eyed » Tue Jun 12, 2012 3:56 pm

I think the change benefited the people who had done little to no prep beforehand, whereas most of us here have taken so many PTs that any deviation from the standard makes us lose our shit.

User avatar
Br3v
Posts: 4174
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2011 7:18 pm

Re: Having a lot of room on LG

Postby Br3v » Tue Jun 12, 2012 4:19 pm

As I was taking it I assumed that it was normal and PTs just saved paper and put it on one and was like "How did I never realize this". When I came home to TLS I realized what was up.

User avatar
princeR
Posts: 308
Joined: Mon Dec 05, 2011 4:10 pm

Re: Having a lot of room on LG

Postby princeR » Tue Jun 12, 2012 4:27 pm

Don't get me wrong, it's definitely a positive change, but during the intensity of the test any slight deviation from normal makes me lose my shit, which this did.

User avatar
SaintsTheMetal
Posts: 429
Joined: Mon Mar 05, 2012 5:08 am

Re: Having a lot of room on LG

Postby SaintsTheMetal » Tue Jun 12, 2012 5:07 pm

It is going to be a pain for dealing with PTs personally.

Will be a kink in my method of a giant stack of individual games and re-printing ones I didn't perfect... having to keep 2 papers together now :x

When they were bounded together I don't see how you could possibly complain. A couple of the recent games, PT63 I think for example, had almost no space on a couple games.

User avatar
CardozoLaw09
Posts: 1745
Joined: Sat Aug 28, 2010 1:58 pm

Re: Having a lot of room on LG

Postby CardozoLaw09 » Tue Jun 12, 2012 5:16 pm

The excess room is definitely a positive change, what's unfortunate is that LSAC didn't mention that this will be the case for the June LSAT. Had they sent out a memo or W/E informing us of this 'experiment' then it would not have evoked the reaction it did for many test takers. It took me a while to embrace the additional space since it was something completely unexpected. Granted, the games weren't all that difficult but they have to understand how a deviation in the standard format may have an impact - whether positive or negative.

lilhugsy24
Posts: 93
Joined: Sat Mar 10, 2012 2:48 am

Re: Having a lot of room on LG

Postby lilhugsy24 » Tue Jun 12, 2012 6:42 pm

My first reaction when I flipped the page was WTF?! Where are the questions at? :shock:

But is this something they're gonna continue? Don't want to go into October expecting hella room to diagram and then getting the old forma :evil: t.

suzige
Posts: 307
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 11:10 pm

Re: Having a lot of room on LG

Postby suzige » Tue Jun 12, 2012 6:55 pm

princeR wrote:Don't get me wrong, it's definitely a positive change, but during the intensity of the test any slight deviation from normal makes me lose my shit, which this did.


Exactly.

I wouldn't have cared so much if we were forewarned in some way that the layout of the games would be different. To turn the page and see that under pressure made it so much worse.

User avatar
NYC2012
Posts: 224
Joined: Tue Apr 03, 2012 3:47 am

Re: Having a lot of room on LG

Postby NYC2012 » Tue Jun 12, 2012 9:13 pm

shifty_eyed wrote:I think the change benefited the people who had done little to no prep beforehand, whereas most of us here have taken so many PTs that any deviation from the standard makes us lose our shit.


I respectfully disagree... I did over 30 PTs, so it definitely surprised me, but in a good way. I just felt less constrained and could draw huge diagrams that were easy to look at and understand. During all of my PTs if there was some crazy game or weird passage I learned to not freak out and just answer the questions, so that's what I did when I was thrown off by the space.

Then again, i was so in the zone during that test that the guy testing next to me could have died and I would not have noticed until the end of the section, haha.

suzige
Posts: 307
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 11:10 pm

Re: Having a lot of room on LG

Postby suzige » Tue Jun 12, 2012 10:19 pm

NYC2012 wrote:
shifty_eyed wrote:I think the change benefited the people who had done little to no prep beforehand, whereas most of us here have taken so many PTs that any deviation from the standard makes us lose our shit.


I respectfully disagree... I did over 30 PTs, so it definitely surprised me, but in a good way. I just felt less constrained and could draw huge diagrams that were easy to look at and understand. During all of my PTs if there was some crazy game or weird passage I learned to not freak out and just answer the questions, so that's what I did when I was thrown off by the space.

Then again, i was so in the zone during that test that the guy testing next to me could have died and I would not have noticed until the end of the section, haha.


I need to learn how to do this. I spaz easily when I'm thrown a curveball. Sometimes I can snap out of it. Sometimes I can't. I couldn't yesterday :x

Harlyn
Posts: 35
Joined: Mon Apr 16, 2012 11:06 pm

Re: Having a lot of room on LG

Postby Harlyn » Tue Jun 12, 2012 10:47 pm

guinness1547 wrote:I was too much in the zone to think about it, but yeah there was an insane amount of space to work with. I loved it.

BruceDenton
Posts: 23
Joined: Thu Feb 24, 2011 8:42 pm

Re: Having a lot of room on LG

Postby BruceDenton » Wed Jun 13, 2012 1:05 pm

Br3v wrote:As I was taking it I assumed that it was normal and PTs just saved paper and put it on one and was like "How did I never realize this". When I came home to TLS I realized what was up.



QFT. I also diagrammed on scratch paper, which probably wasn't smart at the time, but with this change I was used to going back and forth, so it didn't affect me negatively. I had actually never NOT used scratch paper (took like 30 PTs), so was a bit worried I wouldn't have enough room. When I flipped to LG, I was just like "nice..."




Return to “LSAT Prep and Discussion Forum”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: gwillygecko, ladymew, lmnope and 9 guests