Are you a believer that everyone has a ceiling on the LSAT?

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CalAlumni
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Re: Are you a believer that everyone has a ceiling on the LSAT?

Postby CalAlumni » Sun Jun 03, 2012 1:44 pm

TERS wrote:"percipacity"? You mean perspicacity?


Ah, my mistake. This is the reason why spell-check is the paramour in my life.

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marlo45
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Re: Are you a believer that everyone has a ceiling on the LSAT?

Postby marlo45 » Sun Jun 03, 2012 1:52 pm

TERS wrote:"percipacity"? You mean perspicacity?

You could've used the pm feature, man :mrgreen: . I saw this dude saying 'purgative' instead of 'prerogative' and i almost 'shit' myself laughing. Moral of the story: stick to words you are familiar with. I only just learned this perspicacity word in a thread i had started.
Last edited by marlo45 on Sun Jun 03, 2012 2:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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dowu
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Re: Are you a believer that everyone has a ceiling on the LSAT?

Postby dowu » Sun Jun 03, 2012 2:29 pm

:shock: :shock:
Last edited by dowu on Mon Apr 18, 2016 12:08 am, edited 1 time in total.

TERS
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Re: Are you a believer that everyone has a ceiling on the LSAT?

Postby TERS » Sun Jun 03, 2012 4:37 pm

marlo45 wrote:stick to words you are familiar with.

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Nova
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Re: Are you a believer that everyone has a ceiling on the LSAT?

Postby Nova » Sun Jun 03, 2012 4:43 pm

CalAlumni wrote:
TERS wrote:"percipacity"? You mean perspicacity?


Ah, my mistake. This is the reason why spell-check is the paramour in my life.


Your ceiling is showing.

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DaRascal
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Re: Are you a believer that everyone has a ceiling on the LSAT?

Postby DaRascal » Sun Jun 03, 2012 4:45 pm

CalAlumni wrote:
TERS wrote:"percipacity"? You mean perspicacity?


Ah, my mistake. This is the reason why spell-check is the paramour in my life.



Your ceiling is a 162.

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PDaddy
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Re: Are you a believer that everyone has a ceiling on the LSAT?

Postby PDaddy » Sun Jun 03, 2012 4:49 pm

Scotusnerd wrote:I think if there is anything that would determine a ceiling in the LSAT, it's your reading ability. Not everyone is capable of reading at the same level, and it would be impossible to achieve good results on this test with rudimentary reading skills.

Beyond that, I think it's a matter of motivation, analysis, organizational skills, and a good understanding of your own learning style. Those can all be learned and improved in a realistic time frame.

I think the factors are too complicated to really make a 'ceiling', however. Everyone hits plateaus. I think a ceiling is just a plateau that you haven't conquered yet.

So no, minus an honest inability to read fast and accurately, I don't think there is a ceiling.


You are, in effect, reiterating my earlier post. IMO, the LSAT is little more than a reading test. There are some other finite, learnable skills that one must acquire and incorporate into the process, but it is still ultimately a reading test. Whether or not reading ability can be improved upon is up to each individual. The overall verbal skills one has acquired throughout 16-18 years of prior schooling (on average) can determine one's "starting point". It is the foundation for one's success. One can strategically alter this foundation, but it takes time, and a lot of work...the breaking of bad habits.

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PDaddy
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Re: Are you a believer that everyone has a ceiling on the LSAT?

Postby PDaddy » Sun Jun 03, 2012 4:51 pm

Nova wrote:
PDaddy wrote: you failed to properly punctuate your question

LOLOLOL
PDaddy wrote:The sentence is poorly cxonstructed constructed, and your failure to understand what I am pointing out tells me a lot about your struggles with the LSAT

Dude, constructed doesnt have an x. You clearly have an LSAT ceiling.
Max324 wrote:"Do you think there are some people who can never really achieve a certain score, even with an unlimited amount of study time, because of factors such as lapses in focus, inability to process/handle multiple pieces of information at one time, inability to make correct inferences, etc.?"
Does that edit make it kosher? Not looking to get into this argument; I'm genuinely curious.

Its fine.
suspicious android wrote:
PDaddy wrote: It is unintelligible as written. The sentence is poorly cxonstructed, and your failure to understand what I am pointing out tells me a lot about your struggles with the LSAT. I am telling you this for your own good.

Very noble of you.

+1


How cheap of you...typo bonehead! :roll: :lol: FIXED in BOLD!

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PDaddy
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Re: Are you a believer that everyone has a ceiling on the LSAT?

Postby PDaddy » Sun Jun 03, 2012 4:54 pm

Also...OP re-wrote his post, first and foremost including a comma before "because". It's still a poorly written question. OP should have written the cause before the effect, precisely because he was constructing a question. Good writers are like good point-guards: they write sentences that good readers can understand without re-reading. They properly punctuate sentences, properly place modifiers, use active voice whenever possible, and place causes before effects.

To prove my point, here is a much better (albeit still imperfect) construction of OP's original post.

Given factors such as lapses in focus, inability to process/handle multiple pieces of information at one time, inability to make correct inferences, etc., do you believe that there are some people who can never really achieve a certain score - even with an unlimited amount of study time?

OP probably reads the way he writes, which means he likely misreads much of the properly constructed language he encounters on the test. That causes slowdowns. The key to mastering the LSAT is to improve your verbal skills overall. As I said earlier, you must break bad habits.

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Scotusnerd
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Re: Are you a believer that everyone has a ceiling on the LSAT?

Postby Scotusnerd » Sun Jun 03, 2012 5:07 pm

PDaddy wrote:You are, in effect, reiterating my earlier post. IMO, the LSAT is little more than a reading test. There are some other finite, learnable skills that one must acquire and incorporate into the process, but it is still ultimately a reading test. Whether or not reading ability can be improved upon is up to each individual. The overall verbal skills one has acquired throughout 16-18 years of prior schooling (on average) can determine one's "starting point". It is the foundation for one's success. One can strategically alter this foundation, but it takes time, and a lot of work...the breaking of bad habits.


We may agree in part, but we don't come to the same conclusion. I don't agree that it is 'little more than a reading test'. That is like saying that music is nothing more than simply playing all the notes in the correct sequence. It ignores the surrounding skills, the performance, and the artistry. Similarly, your conclusion ignores the study habits, the self-discipline, the mental focus, and the stamina.

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Nova
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Re: Are you a believer that everyone has a ceiling on the LSAT?

Postby Nova » Sun Jun 03, 2012 5:09 pm

Just playin, bro :lol:

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DaRascal
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Re: Are you a believer that everyone has a ceiling on the LSAT?

Postby DaRascal » Sun Jun 03, 2012 5:09 pm

PDaddy, I have no clue what you're rambling on about. Lol my head is spinning right now.

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Scotusnerd
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Re: Are you a believer that everyone has a ceiling on the LSAT?

Postby Scotusnerd » Sun Jun 03, 2012 5:23 pm

DaRascal wrote:I think the subject title's pretty self-explanatory. And I mean to imply that some people have ceilings that aren't 170+.
What I mean to say is... Do you think there are some people who can never really achieve a certain score even with an unlimited amount of study time because of factors such as lapses in focus, inability to process/handle multiple pieces of information at one time, inability to make correct inferences, etc etc etc.

I've read for the longest time on here that the LSAT is an exam that can be learned, but I just don't buy it. This is exam is pretty difficult. There's no way that virutally everyone is capable of getting a 170+ on this.

What do you think?


Also, just to clarify a response to OP's initial question: I think it depends on your definition of 'everyone'. If 'everyone' means literally 'everyone', than, yes, not everyone can score 170 on this test in a reasonable manner. There are plenty of people who are dyslexic, who dropped out of high school, who never read well, who are psychotic, or mentally retarded (I mean diagnosed, not just 'stupid people) who cannot take this test effectively.

However, if 'everyone' means 'everyone who takes the LSAT', then we have a smaller pool. Assuming that they all completed high school, and all have a college degree, they must have some degree of reading comprehension. This pool will still include people diagnosed with ADHD, depression, and so on. Even so, those people with those disorders can and regularly do get great scores on the LSAT, either due to medication or to sheer perseverance. This leaves us with a bit of a problem, though: what about the others who cannot perform well on the LSAT? What happened?

I don't think anything happened. I think these people have simply hit a plateau, or have let their reading skills atrophy. Either way, they have the skills they need. It might take some time to figure out the next step, but they are perfectly capable of taking it within a reasonable time period.

To take the LSAT, you must have passed high school, have completed (or are completing) a 4-year degree, and must have had approximately 16-18 years of schooling in your life. That is a lot of reading. I just don't find it plausible that someone who has completed that much schooling, and has gotten a respectable GPA, lacks so much in reading comprehension that he or she cannot take that test.
Last edited by Scotusnerd on Sun Jun 03, 2012 5:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.

TERS
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Re: Are you a believer that everyone has a ceiling on the LSAT?

Postby TERS » Sun Jun 03, 2012 5:24 pm

PDaddy wrote:Also...OP re-wrote his post, first and foremost including a comma before "because". It's still a poorly written question. OP should have written the cause before the effect, precisely because he was constructing a question. Good writers are like good point-guards: they write sentences that good readers can understand without re-reading. They properly punctuate sentences, properly place modifiers, use active voice whenever possible, and place causes before effects.

To prove my point, here is a much better (albeit still imperfect) construction of OP's original post.

Given factors such as lapses in focus, inability to process/handle multiple pieces of information at one time, inability to make correct inferences, etc., do you believe that there are some people who can never really achieve a certain score - even with an unlimited amount of study time?

OP probably reads the way he writes, which means he likely misreads much of the properly constructed language he encounters on the test. That causes slowdowns. The key to mastering the LSAT is to improve your verbal skills overall. As I said earlier, you must break bad habits.


Being good at the LSAT also means being able to focus on what's important and what's not. Something to think about...

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ben4847
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Re: Are you a believer that everyone has a ceiling on the LSAT?

Postby ben4847 » Sun Jun 03, 2012 5:48 pm

Well, I've never met someone who didn't have a ceiling.

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Re: Are you a believer that everyone has a ceiling on the LSAT?

Postby TERS » Sun Jun 03, 2012 9:37 pm

ben4847 wrote:Well, I've never met someone who didn't have a ceiling.


Have you met someone who reached their ceiling? If yes, how do you know he/she reached it?

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marlo45
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Re: Are you a believer that everyone has a ceiling on the LSAT?

Postby marlo45 » Sun Jun 03, 2012 10:14 pm

TERS wrote:
ben4847 wrote:Well, I've never met someone who didn't have a ceiling.


Have you met someone who reached their ceiling? If yes, how do you know he/she reached it?

That's the problem i have with accepting this theory as well. If the people in question raise their scores by 1 point, is that the new ceiling?

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ben4847
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Re: Are you a believer that everyone has a ceiling on the LSAT?

Postby ben4847 » Sun Jun 03, 2012 10:30 pm

TERS wrote:
ben4847 wrote:Well, I've never met someone who didn't have a ceiling.


Have you met someone who reached their ceiling? If yes, how do you know he/she reached it?


Dumb question. People who got 180's.

VasaVasori
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.

Postby VasaVasori » Sun Jun 03, 2012 10:31 pm

.
Last edited by VasaVasori on Sat May 02, 2015 10:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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ben4847
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Re: Are you a believer that everyone has a ceiling on the LSAT?

Postby ben4847 » Sun Jun 03, 2012 10:49 pm

VasaVasori wrote:
ben4847 wrote:
TERS wrote:
ben4847 wrote:Well, I've never met someone who didn't have a ceiling.


Have you met someone who reached their ceiling? If yes, how do you know he/she reached it?


Dumb question. People who got 180's.

This is a pointless exception. It contributes nothing to the discussion.

Inasmuch as the discussion is pointless itself since it is impossible to answer; and my comment was way to absurd to deserve any conversation; I'd say the score is Troll 1, You all 0.

TERS
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Re: Are you a believer that everyone has a ceiling on the LSAT?

Postby TERS » Sun Jun 03, 2012 10:52 pm

ben4847 wrote:Dumb question. People who got 180's.


Wow you're awesome. And, just to troll back, 180 does not necessarily mean -0.

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marlo45
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Re: Are you a believer that everyone has a ceiling on the LSAT?

Postby marlo45 » Sun Jun 03, 2012 10:55 pm

ben4847 wrote:Inasmuch as the discussion is pointless itself since it is impossible to answer; and my comment was way to absurd to deserve any conversation; I'd say the score is Troll 1, You all 0.

:roll:
You tried. You failed. You backtracked. Stand by your bullshit and admit that you got your ass kicked in a discussion.

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LSAT>LDAC
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Re: Are you a believer that everyone has a ceiling on the LSAT?

Postby LSAT>LDAC » Sun Jun 03, 2012 11:05 pm

ben4847 wrote:Inasmuch as the discussion is pointless itself since it is impossible to answer; and my comment was way to absurd to deserve any conversation; I'd say the score is Troll 1, You all 0.


Working off of the assumption that this discussion is pointless if it cant definitively answer the question in its title. Which is false.

Taus11
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Re: Are you a believer that everyone has a ceiling on the LSAT?

Postby Taus11 » Mon Jun 04, 2012 2:36 am

This thread sucks, it turned from people patting themselves/each other on the back for going to non-prestigious undergrads to pure nonsense.

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LSAT>LDAC
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Re: Are you a believer that everyone has a ceiling on the LSAT?

Postby LSAT>LDAC » Mon Jun 04, 2012 2:45 am

^^^^^^^

Taus11 wrote:pure nonsense.




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