ams212 wrote:shifty_eyed wrote:TheZoid wrote:Wow, that's pretty surprising. I've always kinda wondered whether getting into undergrad or law school was harder, but I think the only real answer is they're just different. Plenty of Harvard grads end up at mediocre (by TLS standards) law schools, and plenty of people from average undergrads go to Harvard law. Just seems weird.
Yeah, I was surprised to see that my undergrad's average LSAT was in the low 160s, and it's actually in the top 15 or so of schools ranked by LSAT score.
I think TLS skews our perspective, and a LOT of people take the LSAT underprepared. I imagine MOST if not ALL Harvard students could break 170 if they studied as much as the regular TLS LSAT prepper poster.
I think prestige of undergrad is highly overrated anyways. I would argue that your average LSAT-taker at Harvard isn't any smarter than an above average LSAT-taker at a state school. Getting in to an Ivy League undergrad doesn't make you automatically more intelligent (ie more able to crack a higher LSAT with hard work and study) than someone from a less prestigious schools. Undergrad admissions are, in a lot of ways, a crap shoot. Self-selection, your high school teachers, financial constraints, and standardized test scores play such a large role. The standardized tests to get into undergrad, IMO, are more indicators of knowledge than intelligence, whereas the LSAT is more of an indicator of intelligence (based on its heavy testing of analytic skills). I also, would argue Harvard students are more likely to study for the LSAT because they probably likely prepared for the SAT and ACT before undergrad to get into Harvard. I think that's why the LSAT is such a valuable tool. It eliminates factors besides work ethic and intelligence. While on average Harvard students are more intelligent than a less prestigious school's students, at the top level I don't think there's a difference. So it doesn't at all surprise me that Harvard students only average a 166 because there are bound to be students who got into Harvard based on other factors than intelligence (hard work, easy graders in high school, etc.).
I don't disagree with any of this.