Tips from 170+ Scorers on LR

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Micdiddy
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Re: Tips from 170+ Scorers on LR

Postby Micdiddy » Fri Jun 01, 2012 1:02 am

Tiago Splitter wrote:
Micdiddy wrote:Honestly that's pretty incredible. I feel that going my absolute fastest I could end a section in 23 minutes maybe, and prob miss 1 or 2, but usually I end with 6 or 7 minutes left and get none or some wrong atypically.


I'm assuming he's already seen the questions.


Hmm, well I guess. But then that's not really fair...

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acrossthelake
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Re: Tips from 170+ Scorers on LR

Postby acrossthelake » Fri Jun 01, 2012 1:08 am

esh12 wrote:Whether you've been getting 170+ on the PTs or have actually gotten 170+ on an actual LSAT, I wanted to gather some info on how you guys tackle LR..

1. Do you always read the question stem first? I find myself re-reading the stem a second time after reading the stimulus to make sure I know what AC I'm looking for. But I feel this is wasting precious seconds.

Yes, though I don't think it's necessary, some ppl do well the other way around. It just makes more sense to me--dunno what the answers are responding to if I don't know the question.

2. Do you read the stimulus carefully on 1 pass as opposed to reading it fast, then re-reading it again as you go through the AC's? I find myself doing the latter, which again, I feel is wasting time.

Normal speed, not super carefully, but I definitely don't skim.

3. A more open-ended question is, how often do you refer back to the stimulus as you go through AC's? I do this A LOT on the harder questions because I need to "refresh" my memory of the details that would help in selecting the right answer.

Once?

4. Do you go through the first 12 or questions as fast as you can, knowing that the first right answer you see is likely correct, so that you have more time for the next 13 questions?

No, but if you're running out of time, that seems like a fair strategy.

5. How much do you mark-up your test booklet? For example, do you bracket the conclusion, outline the premise, write notes, form conditionals even when you don't really need them?

I diagram parallel questions, otherwise, I circle the answer to speed up double-checking my bubbling. You should really figure out what you need, and do that. Experiment. If you don't need them, don't waste your time. If your accuracy suffers, do them.

6. Do you ever cross out the right AC only to go back to it when you've noticed that you've crossed out 5 AC's? I do this with some frequency on the latter half of the test.

No, I can always narrow it down to at least 2. When I get questions wrong, the right answer is always the other of the two.

Any tips or pointers on LR in general would also be appreciated, even though I know there are a ton of threads covering this.

You really need to figure out an individualized method. I've read a lot of threads on here where ppl have argued back and forth about some of these questions (all of them high-scoreres). If it's useful, keep it. If it's not, ditch it. Experiment, experiment, and keep practicing.

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Nova
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Re: Tips from 170+ Scorers on LR

Postby Nova » Fri Jun 01, 2012 1:09 am

esh12 & Nova wrote:Whether you've been getting 170+ on the PTs or have actually gotten 170+ on an actual LSAT, I wanted to gather some info on how you guys tackle LR.. Due to RC fail, I did not score 170+ on the real LSAT. However I went -4 total on LR

1. Do you always read the question stem first? I find myself re-reading the stem a second time after reading the stimulus to make sure I know what AC I'm looking for. But I feel this is wasting precious seconds. I read the question first. Knowing what your looking for in the stimulus helps, IMO. I dont have trouble keeping the question in mind, because there are only like 15 or so different ones, and Ive seen them over and over.

2. Do you read the stimulus carefully on 1 pass as opposed to reading it fast, then re-reading it again as you go through the AC's? I find myself doing the latter, which again, I feel is wasting time. I read it one time through slow enough to absorb everything. When I have to go back to reference it, I will.

3. A more open-ended question is, how often do you refer back to the stimulus as you go through AC's? I do this A LOT on the harder questions because I need to "refresh" my memory of the details that would help in selecting the right answer. I try to absorb the info the best I can the first time through. If its really confusing Ill diagram it, short hand it, or reference it as necessary.

4. Do you go through the first 12 or questions as fast as you can, knowing that the first right answer you see is likely correct, so that you have more time for the next 13 questions? I try to be quick and methodical through out the entire section. I know that the early questions do not take as much time and I accordingly spend a minute or less on each unless something bothers me.

5. How much do you mark-up your test booklet? For example, do you bracket the conclusion, outline the premise, write notes, form conditionals even when you don't really need them? I put a symbol next to the question (Like a + for str, W for weaken, N for necessary asumption, S for sufficent assumption). For the stimulus, I bracket the conclusion and mark key words. if the logic is to much to keep in my head, I diagram. If an answer choice is wrong, I slash through it.

6. Do you ever cross out the right AC only to go back to it when you've noticed that you've crossed out 5 AC's? I do this with some frequency on the latter half of the test. Rarely. I only cross an answer off if I can prove it to be false. I rarely incorrectly prove the right answer false.

Any tips or pointers on LR in general would also be appreciated, even though I know there are a ton of threads covering this. Pattern recognition.
Last edited by Nova on Fri Jun 01, 2012 8:06 pm, edited 2 times in total.

TheColonel
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Re: Tips from 170+ Scorers on LR

Postby TheColonel » Fri Jun 01, 2012 1:10 am

LionelHutzJD wrote:
TheColonel wrote:
LionelHutzJD wrote:About how long did you drill for before becoming comfortable? (lol?)


I couldn't really put an exact number on it. I finished Blueprint's online course and then took probably a half dozen PTs before I really got comfortable. So probably ~75 or so questions per question type and then ~15 full LR sections. Your mileage may vary.



How long was the course? Sorry, im taking testmasters three month course starting in July and I wanted to make sure its ample time and materials.


It was online on demand style so it was as long or short as I wanted it to be. I'd say if you take all the classes, do all the homework, and take a few PTs you'll probably reach a significant level of comfort. That's awfully ambiguous, I know, but that would be my best guess.

Miracle
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Re: Tips from 170+ Scorers on LR

Postby Miracle » Fri Jun 01, 2012 9:55 am

great thread!

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LexLeon
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Re: Tips from 170+ Scorers on LR

Postby LexLeon » Fri Jun 01, 2012 12:15 pm

esh12 wrote:Whether you've been getting 170+ on the PTs or have actually gotten 170+ on an actual LSAT, I wanted to gather some info on how you guys tackle LR..

1. Do you always read the question stem first? I find myself re-reading the stem a second time after reading the stimulus to make sure I know what AC I'm looking for. But I feel this is wasting precious seconds.

2. Do you read the stimulus carefully on 1 pass as opposed to reading it fast, then re-reading it again as you go through the AC's? I find myself doing the latter, which again, I feel is wasting time.

3. A more open-ended question is, how often do you refer back to the stimulus as you go through AC's? I do this A LOT on the harder questions because I need to "refresh" my memory of the details that would help in selecting the right answer.

4. Do you go through the first 12 or questions as fast as you can, knowing that the first right answer you see is likely correct, so that you have more time for the next 13 questions?

5. How much do you mark-up your test booklet? For example, do you bracket the conclusion, outline the premise, write notes, form conditionals even when you don't really need them?

6. Do you ever cross out the right AC only to go back to it when you've noticed that you've crossed out 5 AC's? I do this with some frequency on the latter half of the test.

Any tips or pointers on LR in general would also be appreciated, even though I know there are a ton of threads covering this.


Probably a repeat:

1. I read the stimulus, then the stem, then the AC's.

2. When in my right mind, I read the stimulus very carefully and critically the first time. This is crucial, in my opinion. If at times I get to the end of it and was not sure of what happened, I reread it.

3. I think I always refer back, even on the easier questions. I do this just to be sure that my answer is correct. Sure, I'm often fairly certain that I got it; at that point, I could circle it, and move on. But to me, the 5-10 (or more, if I find out I'm mistaken) second trade off to ensure that I have the correct answer is well worth the decreased risk of even one missed question.

4. I do not go as fast as I can, per se. Though I do strive toward the proper balance of certainty of AC and speed. On my recent tests, I've finished roughly 15-17 of the first questions in roughly 15 minutes, with good accuracy. But, don't get me wrong: there are many tough questions to found earlier in the section that may well command more than a minute of your time.

5. I mark sporadically. Sometimes when the conclusion is just really obvious ("But, this view is mistaken.", e.g.) I'll bracket it out of reflex. On questions that refer to a specific word or set of words within the stimulus, I do underline them. Other words--like words that indicate a huge quantifier shift or other point of error--I'll notate as well. On questions with a lot of conditionals (MBT's or SA's, for example), I nearly always write them out.

6. Generally I don't run into that problem because I'm not too quick to cross off an answer unless it is so flagrantly wrong that it warrants no further consideration. I'll read a choice that in itself does nothing on a weaken question, for example, and realize that with several assumptions it may weaken the argument, but that it is probably not the right answer. In a case such as that, I'll leave it alone until I find an answer that is clearly better.

Sometimes, I'll be going a bit too quick and cross out an answer that, when I've finished slashing it, all of a sudden appears to be correct. Be careful of going too fast. Many questions turn on devilishly intelligent subtleties.

If LR is really a problem for you, consider skipping 5 questions in the section (those which you anticipate to be the most difficult) guessing all one letter on them, and using the 29 minutes to complete and bubble the other 20 perfectly.

Though, I don't think there's anything to stop you, or many others for that matter, from achieving a consistent -1/-0 on LR, if you've studied it intensely and so forth.

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cc.celina
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Re: Tips from 170+ Scorers on LR

Postby cc.celina » Fri Jun 01, 2012 8:02 pm

elterrible78 wrote:
Micdiddy wrote:
banjo wrote:6. I do exactly what shifty_eyed does. If I'm going through the answer choices a third time (almost never happens), I put a slash through the entire AC, including the words, so I know never to look at it again.


I feel I should mention that I do this also.


Yep, me too. If I'm making a second pass, I will completely black out the letter beside the AC. Have never ended up with one of my blacked-out ACs being the correct response.



Wanted to add because I take a slightly different approach:

When Ive been going over a question forever and no answer seems right to me, I take a little extra time to cross out the EXACT word or phrase that makes each AC wrong. Like if I know the answer should include "many philosophers" but the AC says "some philosophers," i cross those 2 words out. If the entire AC is just completely irrelevant I'll scratch the whole thing out, but this approach, especially when im just taking PTs, forces me to read the ACs way more carefully than when I'm panicking.

For me it's a good way to figure out exactly how they're trying to trick you and really get into the testmaker's heads. If youre really pressed for time on LR though, this might be better for untimed/loosely timed drills.

bp shinners
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Re: Tips from 170+ Scorers on LR

Postby bp shinners » Fri Jun 01, 2012 8:45 pm

Tiago Splitter wrote:
Micdiddy wrote:Honestly that's pretty incredible. I feel that going my absolute fastest I could end a section in 23 minutes maybe, and prob miss 1 or 2, but usually I end with 6 or 7 minutes left and get none or some wrong atypically.


I'm assuming he's already seen the questions.


Nope, I tried this with the last test when it was released. Teach the test for 2+ years and you, too, could have a skill of extremely limited usefulness!

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Liquox
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Re: Tips from 170+ Scorers on LR

Postby Liquox » Wed Jun 06, 2012 6:45 pm

esh12 wrote:Whether you've been getting 170+ on the PTs or have actually gotten 170+ on an actual LSAT, I wanted to gather some info on how you guys tackle LR..

1. Do you always read the question stem first? I find myself re-reading the stem a second time after reading the stimulus to make sure I know what AC I'm looking for. But I feel this is wasting precious seconds.

yes, the point is to do enough practice problems so that just by reading the stem, you should have a rough idea of what they're going to ask you. ex: passage without obvious flaws most likely will ask main point; passage missing a piece will either ask for the missing piece or a rebuttal containing the missing piece

2. Do you read the stimulus carefully on 1 pass as opposed to reading it fast, then re-reading it again as you go through the AC's? I find myself doing the latter, which again, I feel is wasting time.

read once. no more than once, unless the problem is just that hard. if you need more than once for every other problem, you won't finish

3. A more open-ended question is, how often do you refer back to the stimulus as you go through AC's? I do this A LOT on the harder questions because I need to "refresh" my memory of the details that would help in selecting the right answer.

thinking about the stim, sometimes. reading back, very very rarely. know what the problem is before u read the AC will save you loads of time

4. Do you go through the first 12 or questions as fast as you can, knowing that the first right answer you see is likely correct, so that you have more time for the next 13 questions?

no, pace urself at a minute a question. most likely u'll end up taking longer on the tougher questions, but at least a min a question elaves u 2-4 minutes to check

5. How much do you mark-up your test booklet? For example, do you bracket the conclusion, outline the premise, write notes, form conditionals even when you don't really need them?

i slash everything irrelevant and underline all key words that are missing. some people mark up stuff; this is really up to the test taker

6. Do you ever cross out the right AC only to go back to it when you've noticed that you've crossed out 5 AC's? I do this with some frequency on the latter half of the test.

not that i can remember, but here's a separate tip: WATCH WHAT YOU'RE BUBBLING. Last minute, I realized during my actual LSAT that I mis-bubbled 5 questions 1 blank to the right. (a-b, b-c, ect) i didn't have time to change all of them and dropped 3 pts i really shouldn't have

Any tips or pointers on LR in general would also be appreciated, even though I know there are a ton of threads covering this.




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