I've seen the light!!!

03152016
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Re: I've seen the light!!!

Postby 03152016 » Mon May 28, 2012 3:34 am

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Micdiddy
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Re: I've seen the light!!!

Postby Micdiddy » Mon May 28, 2012 3:34 am

DaRascal wrote:
and hope I have enough time for the last passage.



Any strategy that this is a part of is far from optimal. How long are you taking to read the passage? If it's anything more than 3 minutes it's just too long.

03152016
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Re: I've seen the light!!!

Postby 03152016 » Mon May 28, 2012 3:43 am

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DaRascal
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Re: I've seen the light!!!

Postby DaRascal » Mon May 28, 2012 1:31 pm

Max324 wrote:
DaRascal wrote:Well I have 20 PTs left and I've been going over LG from the first 20 I took just so I can get a lot faster. Especially with the advanced linear games.


Anyway, I'm planning on applying ED to Columbia and then I'll blanket everything except for HYS unless I get like a 172+.
Should I just wait till October? I'm a URM (PR Male). But I also feel like even though it would be cramming to do 20 PTs in this amount of time, I think I can fit it in because I have no obligations and studying for the LSAT is my life right now. I mean I did 40 logic games today.

Extremely unlikely you'll be able to do 20 PTs with meaningful review in two weeks without burning out. I don't know what your routine is, but don't deny yourself the advantages of careful, thorough review after each and every test. Personally, I spend as much time reviewing as I do taking PTs.

Don't just decide to take the test or not take the test based on what some people on the internet who don't know your circumstances say. Take your time and weigh out the options. What is your dream school? As a URM, what GPA and LSAT score do you need to get in? And where, exactly, are you testing now? You don't have to answer all of this here, but I think you'd be wise to head over to LawSchoolNumbers.com to see how you measure up. If you have the numbers to pull off writing the test in June, more power to you. But make sure it's in your best interests, and make sure you do your due diligence.


Thanks for the advice, my friend. I'm still going to try to cram. I really don't feel any nerves because I've been prepping for a good five months now.
My LSDAS is a 3.61 and I was told on the URM forum that a 170 would give me a good shot at CCN. I'm hoping that I can get a 170 and ED to Columbia and given that my PTs have been mid-high 160s lately and that I've gotten markedly better at LR, I'm feeling confident I can do that if I can just get RC down to maybe -3.

Do you really think it's worth it to hold off till October? I mean the ED deadline for Columbia is November 15th so I feel like I'm kind of forced to take it now.

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DaRascal
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Re: I've seen the light!!!

Postby DaRascal » Tue May 29, 2012 2:28 am

K took a PT today.
It went horribly.


162
LR -13
LG -1
RC -11


I am frustrated but also a bit worried about June 11th. On the one hand, that's my best LG section ever and I got through the first game in literally 4 minutes (fastest I've ever done that by far). On the other hand, I was making extreme progress on LR and now this and to make matters worse I had my worst RC EVER.

I'm so mad! I really want Columbia but I need that damn 170! :evil:

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marlo45
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Re: I've seen the light!!!

Postby marlo45 » Tue May 29, 2012 9:01 am

DaRascal wrote:K took a PT today.
It went horribly.


162
LR -13
LG -1
RC -11


I am frustrated but also a bit worried about June 11th. On the one hand, that's my best LG section ever and I got through the first game in literally 4 minutes (fastest I've ever done that by far). On the other hand, I was making extreme progress on LR and now this and to make matters worse I had my worst RC EVER.

I'm so mad! I really want Columbia but I need that damn 170! :evil:

If you want that 170, prep some more and take the test in Oct. The general consensus is that test day anxiety may cause you to drop 5 points from your PT average. One thing you don't want is to score in the 150s when you've been prepping in the high 160s/low 170s. More practice will only make you better.

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DaRascal
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Re: I've seen the light!!!

Postby DaRascal » Tue May 29, 2012 11:15 am

I think I'll still take it on the 11th because:
1) I don't really get nervous on standardized tests
2) I'll be able to know if I'm not doing well and just cancel it.
3) I need the added advantage of applying in early September
4) I really think that PT last night was an anomaly. I haven't gotten -13 on LR in over two months and I've NEVER gotten -11 on RC. I think I just got frustrated and wasn't completely focused. 5) Although my goal is 168-170, I can't possibly see myself dipping below 163 based on my average PT.

But I'm definitely going to consider your advice. Don't want to waste too many more PTs. Got 20 left and haven't done any with Comparative Reading yet.

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Samara
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Re: I've seen the light!!!

Postby Samara » Tue May 29, 2012 12:05 pm

DaRascal wrote:I think I'll still take it on the 11th because:
2) I'll be able to know if I'm not doing well and just cancel it.
3) I need the added advantage of applying in early September

2) It's really hard to know how you're doing, so this isn't a very good strategy. I'm sure you've had PTs where you were surprised by the score.

3) There is no advantage to applying with a June score compared to applying with an October score. Early November is just as early as September.

I'm a proponent of waiting until you're ready. If you feel like you have room to improve, you should wait.

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DaRascal
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Re: I've seen the light!!!

Postby DaRascal » Tue May 29, 2012 12:19 pm

Samara wrote:
DaRascal wrote:I think I'll still take it on the 11th because:
2) I'll be able to know if I'm not doing well and just cancel it.
3) I need the added advantage of applying in early September

2) It's really hard to know how you're doing, so this isn't a very good strategy. I'm sure you've had PTs where you were surprised by the score.

3) There is no advantage to applying with a June score compared to applying with an October score. Early November is just as early as September.

I'm a proponent of waiting until you're ready. If you feel like you have room to improve, you should wait.


2) Yeah, but I don't about you, but I can usually tell when I'm going -3 or so in a LR section and when I'm going -6. On a really good LR section, for example, if I answered all but 2 or 3 of the 25 or 26 questions with certainty and for those 2 or 3 I was able to get down to 2 possible answers then I like my chances. So if I notice on test day that I've got say 5+ questions where I wasn't able to eliminate all the incorrect answers, then I'll cancel.

Honestly I don't know what's going on with RC but for virtually every LR question I get wrong I usually have the right answer as a contender.


Anyway, I'm strongly leaning toward what you're saying. I'm going to take a couple of PTs this week and if I don't get any high 160's/low 170's, I'll take in October, but if I do, I'll roll the dice and just come in as focused as a zen buddhist on June 11th.

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Samara
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Re: I've seen the light!!!

Postby Samara » Tue May 29, 2012 12:30 pm

DaRascal wrote:
Samara wrote:
DaRascal wrote:I think I'll still take it on the 11th because:
2) I'll be able to know if I'm not doing well and just cancel it.
3) I need the added advantage of applying in early September

2) It's really hard to know how you're doing, so this isn't a very good strategy. I'm sure you've had PTs where you were surprised by the score.

3) There is no advantage to applying with a June score compared to applying with an October score. Early November is just as early as September.

I'm a proponent of waiting until you're ready. If you feel like you have room to improve, you should wait.


2) Yeah, but I don't about you, but I can usually tell when I'm going -3 or so in a LR section and when I'm going -6. On a really good LR section, for example, if I answered all but 2 or 3 of the 25 or 26 questions with certainty and for those 2 or 3 I was able to get down to 2 possible answers then I like my chances. So if I notice on test day that I've got say 5+ questions where I wasn't able to eliminate all the incorrect answers, then I'll cancel.

Honestly I don't know what's going on with RC but for virtually every LR question I get wrong I usually have the right answer as a contender.


Anyway, I'm strongly leaning toward what you're saying. I'm going to take a couple of PTs this week and if I don't get any high 160's/low 170's, I'll take in October, but if I do, I'll roll the dice and just come in as focused as a zen buddhist on June 11th.

That sounds good. Confidence is half the battle. Good luck!

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Re: I've seen the light!!!

Postby DaRascal » Tue May 29, 2012 7:07 pm

Good News! Took PT 29 today and got a 169. :P

LR I- 23/25
RC- 25/27
LG- 20/24
LR II- 19/25

So... LR -8, RC -2, LG -4

Very mad at myself for getting that many wrong on LG and the last LR section. With the Games I was sloppy trying to work quickly so I wouldn't have to rush the fourth game. It worked because I got everything right on the fourth game but I got one question wrong on the first one, second one, and two wrong on the third one.

Also think I got so many wrong on the last LR section because I was just rushing to get the whole PT over with.



Anyway. I feel plenty confident now and I'm really pleased with my RC score on this one. I was definitely active, engaged, and really thought about the answers in that section.

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jbates14
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Re: I've seen the light!!!

Postby jbates14 » Tue May 29, 2012 9:02 pm

DaRascal wrote:Good News! Took PT 29 today and got a 169. :P

LR I- 23/25
RC- 25/27
LG- 20/24
LR II- 19/25

So... LR -8, RC -2, LG -4

Very mad at myself for getting that many wrong on LG and the last LR section. With the Games I was sloppy trying to work quickly so I wouldn't have to rush the fourth game. It worked because I got everything right on the fourth game but I got one question wrong on the first one, second one, and two wrong on the third one.

Also think I got so many wrong on the last LR section because I was just rushing to get the whole PT over with.



Anyway. I feel plenty confident now and I'm really pleased with my RC score on this one. I was definitely active, engaged, and really thought about the answers in that section.


Not trying to burst your bubble or anything, but the newer tests (PT 50+) have much more difficult LR and RC.

Just to add: I wouldn't consider the newer LR much more difficult, it just has more flaws and assumption questions than earlier test. It focuses more on formal logic and less on common sense. So you could potentially have better scores on LR, but RC is much more difficult for me and it seems to be giving people more difficulties into the newer tests.

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Re: I've seen the light!!!

Postby DaRascal » Tue May 29, 2012 9:12 pm

jbates14 wrote:
DaRascal wrote:Good News! Took PT 29 today and got a 169. :P

LR I- 23/25
RC- 25/27
LG- 20/24
LR II- 19/25

So... LR -8, RC -2, LG -4

Very mad at myself for getting that many wrong on LG and the last LR section. With the Games I was sloppy trying to work quickly so I wouldn't have to rush the fourth game. It worked because I got everything right on the fourth game but I got one question wrong on the first one, second one, and two wrong on the third one.

Also think I got so many wrong on the last LR section because I was just rushing to get the whole PT over with.



Anyway. I feel plenty confident now and I'm really pleased with my RC score on this one. I was definitely active, engaged, and really thought about the answers in that section.


Not trying to burst your bubble or anything, but the newer tests (PT 50+) have much more difficult LR and RC.

Just to add: I wouldn't consider the newer LR much more difficult, it just has more flaws and assumption questions than earlier test. It focuses more on formal logic and less on common sense. So you could potentially have better scores on LR, but RC is much more difficult for me and it seems to be giving people more difficulties into the newer tests.


Really? I'm going to take a 50+ one in about an hour. Won't be finished until 1 in the morning. Hopefully I can duplicate this performance. What really ANNOYS me on LR are the parallel reasoning questions. Untimed they're rather easy, but when I'm taking a timed PT I tend to have to rush my train of thought.

I'm more worried about LG with the newer ones. I mean I've done almost 200 games if I look at all the PTs I've taken but for the past couple of months, I've been reading on here that the games are much more difficult in the newer tests.

I feel a lot better about RC. I'll probably be adopting your luck strategy if things fall apart, but I'm starting to become a very involved reader and I'm not second guessing myself nearly as much.

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jbates14
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Re: I've seen the light!!!

Postby jbates14 » Wed May 30, 2012 1:48 am

DaRascal wrote:
jbates14 wrote:
DaRascal wrote:Good News! Took PT 29 today and got a 169. :P

LR I- 23/25
RC- 25/27
LG- 20/24
LR II- 19/25

So... LR -8, RC -2, LG -4

Very mad at myself for getting that many wrong on LG and the last LR section. With the Games I was sloppy trying to work quickly so I wouldn't have to rush the fourth game. It worked because I got everything right on the fourth game but I got one question wrong on the first one, second one, and two wrong on the third one.

Also think I got so many wrong on the last LR section because I was just rushing to get the whole PT over with.



Anyway. I feel plenty confident now and I'm really pleased with my RC score on this one. I was definitely active, engaged, and really thought about the answers in that section.


Not trying to burst your bubble or anything, but the newer tests (PT 50+) have much more difficult LR and RC.

Just to add: I wouldn't consider the newer LR much more difficult, it just has more flaws and assumption questions than earlier test. It focuses more on formal logic and less on common sense. So you could potentially have better scores on LR, but RC is much more difficult for me and it seems to be giving people more difficulties into the newer tests.


Really? I'm going to take a 50+ one in about an hour. Won't be finished until 1 in the morning. Hopefully I can duplicate this performance. What really ANNOYS me on LR are the parallel reasoning questions. Untimed they're rather easy, but when I'm taking a timed PT I tend to have to rush my train of thought.

I'm more worried about LG with the newer ones. I mean I've done almost 200 games if I look at all the PTs I've taken but for the past couple of months, I've been reading on here that the games are much more difficult in the newer tests.

I feel a lot better about RC. I'll probably be adopting your luck strategy if things fall apart, but I'm starting to become a very involved reader and I'm not second guessing myself nearly as much.



The games seem easier to me, but I think its just that they are written more clearly. I think the key is having enough time to double check the parallel ones or just take a longer time on those. RC is all about focus for me.

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Re: I've seen the light!!!

Postby DaRascal » Wed May 30, 2012 1:56 am

Dude, you were not kidding.

Just took PT52 and got a 164. (LR I 19/25, LG 18/23, LR II 20/25, RC 25/26)

LR -11, LG -5, RC -1 (Yeah baby!)


OK I'm definitely loving my RC performance as of late but Jesus Christ that was a rough curve for that PT. I think I'm going to take in October. While I'd love to just go in there and put it all together and give it my best performance in each section and get a 170+, I just don't want to ruin my chances at Columbia which averages scores by getting a mid 160 on the actual thing and then having to get like a 175 on a retake.

You were definitely right about LR though. Although I finished each section with three minutes to spare, they definitely seemed a bit trickier.

Also I'm having a major problem with pacing on the games. I was pretty much screwed on this PT because I got to the 4th game with 5 minutes left. I'm lucky I only got -5.

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Re: I've seen the light!!!

Postby crumpetsandtea » Wed May 30, 2012 3:53 am

DaRascal wrote:5) Although my goal is 168-170, I can't possibly see myself dipping below 163 based on my average PT.

Just so you know, average PT doesn't necessarily mean shit. I'm a pretty good standardized test taker but I dipped to a 169 from an average PT (over 30 tests) of 173. You haven't even broken the 170s yet. It's a waste of time, emotion, and money to take the test too early.

Then again, maybe you'll get lucky...but do you really want to bank on it? A retake is demoralizing and scary as fuck. Don't take the LSAT until you're scoring at least 1-3 points higher than your goal LSAT, on AVERAGE.

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Re: I've seen the light!!!

Postby DaRascal » Wed May 30, 2012 4:07 am

You make some good points but I need to prepare like I'm taking it on June 11th.
I honestly don't think I'm that far off from my goal. I think with my past two performances in RC I'm starting to finally get it. And Games well... it's a timing issue and ideally I want to work over every single game in all the PTs I have so that I can get faster and get perfect or near perfect there.

I think the biggest issue is LR. Since I started taking PTs back in February, I've had a -5, -6, or -7 LR section on every exam. I've had a perfect LR section once before but the fact that I keep going 19/26 and 20/25 tells me that I need to identify the flaw(s) in my thought process and amend them.

I'm really really wary about taking it in October. I think the improvements I need to make can be made before June 11th and part of me would rather not spend the whole summer studying and then feel like I've peaked out well before the October exam.

I'm not a pessimist but what if I take it in October and I get a 167 or something? It would be a complete disaster. It's a score I maybe could have achieved had I devoted these next twelve days to improving upon my weaknesses.

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Samara
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Re: I've seen the light!!!

Postby Samara » Wed May 30, 2012 8:15 am

And what if you take the June test and get a 164, like you just did? Most people score at least 2-3 points below their PT average on test day. If you need a 170+, you simply aren't there yet. You shouldn't take it until you're consistently scoring at or above your goal score.

Also, don't burn through your PTs too quickly. Don't take them just to take them. It sounds like you could stand to take a break from PTs and focus on LR for a little while. I found that reviewing my missed questions were a lot more valuable than burning through PTs.

Finally, Columbia doesn't average LSAT scores. No schools do.

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Re: I've seen the light!!!

Postby 03152016 » Wed May 30, 2012 9:07 am

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DaRascal
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Re: I've seen the light!!!

Postby DaRascal » Wed May 30, 2012 12:26 pm

Thanks for the advice, guys. Looks like I'll just bite the bullet and postpone till October. Unfortunately, I only have 18 PTs left, but I do have the Manhattan LR book which I've only read 20 pages of. And I guess I could go through the PowerScore LR Bible again and look through all my previous PTs and drill LR again. And of course I have to get faster on games.

Looks like there's a lot of road work. Hope it's not all in vain.

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DaRascal
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Re: I've seen the light!!!

Postby DaRascal » Wed May 30, 2012 1:07 pm

Oh wait a second. I can't postpone till October. I'm not a morning person. Ugh this sucks. :cry:

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crumpetsandtea
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Re: I've seen the light!!!

Postby crumpetsandtea » Wed May 30, 2012 2:10 pm

DaRascal wrote:Oh wait a second. I can't postpone till October. I'm not a morning person. Ugh this sucks. :cry:

:| :| :| :| Are you fucking serious...

I am the worst morning person ever (if you let me sleep in I'll sleep on my own till at least 11 no matter when I went to bed the night before). I took June and got a 169. I took October and got a 176.

STOP MAKING UP EXCUSES AND PUT YOUR NOSE TO THE GRINDSTONE!! You want a 17X? Do what it takes. MAKE yourself a morning person. Start waking up an hour earlier every week until you're used to waking up at 6-7 AM. Do morning PTs instead of PTs that go till 1AM. Establishing a routine that mirrors the test day routine will help you a lot.

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Re: I've seen the light!!!

Postby DaRascal » Wed May 30, 2012 4:55 pm

Haha OK, crumpets. I'm convinced now. I'll get used to taking PT's in the morning.
I just want to take this June exam so badly. I feel like I can go in there and put out my best performances in each section knowing everything that's on the line.

But I can see where it would make sense to take it in October. If I can study effectively for the next four months and overcome my current weaknesses, then the LSAT can become second nature to me and I might be able to get the scores you guys are getting on PTs and have gotten on the real thing.




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