LR Bible only made my numbers go down What next?

DESSERTSTORM
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LR Bible only made my numbers go down What next?

Postby DESSERTSTORM » Thu May 17, 2012 7:36 pm

What should I do to improve my LR? I am around -6 per section. Trying to use some of the things in the LR bible made me go down to -9 to -11 and then almost running out of time. Before I had 4 minutes left per LR section, I was reading the questions and answering them just using common sense. How can I improve?

03152016
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Re: LR Bible only made my numbers go down What next?

Postby 03152016 » Thu May 17, 2012 8:23 pm

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Last edited by 03152016 on Tue Mar 15, 2016 2:30 am, edited 1 time in total.

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tmon
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Re: LR Bible only made my numbers go down What next?

Postby tmon » Thu May 17, 2012 8:27 pm

It's entirely common and possible for people to start using a new technique and see initial score drops. When you're learning how to do something new it often takes you time to master it and do it quickly. The techniques we're talking about are pretty agreed upon as effective, so I'd stick with it and keep practicing them, unless you've done a lot of work since finishing the LRB and are still seeing this problem.

Miracle
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Re: LR Bible only made my numbers go down What next?

Postby Miracle » Thu May 17, 2012 8:29 pm

I would love to know an answer to this question as well.

Im all over the place! missing all kinds of questions, and have no idea how to improve. I don't recognize any pattern in my wrong answers. Im -8, -9 on every section.

DESSERTSTORM
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Re: LR Bible only made my numbers go down What next?

Postby DESSERTSTORM » Thu May 17, 2012 8:30 pm

Max324 wrote:Need more info. How many PTs have you done post-LRB? What question types are you missing? Have you done any drilling? When are you taking the test?

taking in june, done some drilling but maybe i need alot more

3 pts since lrb. percentage are for correct answers
Analyze Argument Structure 72%
Assumptions 74%
Explain a Result 69%
Identify the Flaw 62%
Make an Inference 67%
Matching 61%
Principle (example) 75%
Principle (support) 60%
Strengthen/Weaken 80%
Other 1 1 100%



Identify the Conclusion 69%
Identify the Disagreement 80%
Identify the Function 64%
Procedure 86%


Necessary Assumption 78%
Sufficient Assumption 64%
General Assumption 100%


Strengthen 84%
Weaken 76%

18 11 61%
Match the Flaw 10 5 50%
Match the Reasoning 8 6 75%
Last edited by DESSERTSTORM on Thu May 17, 2012 8:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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tmon
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Re: LR Bible only made my numbers go down What next?

Postby tmon » Thu May 17, 2012 8:31 pm

Miracle wrote:I would love to know an answer to this question as well.

Im all over the place! missing all kinds of questions, and have no idea how to improve. I don't recognize any pattern in my wrong answers. Im -8, -9 on every section.

It may be a focus/comprehension issue then if you've worked your way through the LRB and understand everything. How accurate are you if you answer questions without a time constraint?

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tmon
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Re: LR Bible only made my numbers go down What next?

Postby tmon » Thu May 17, 2012 8:33 pm

DESSERTSTORM wrote:
Max324 wrote:Need more info. How many PTs have you done post-LRB? What question types are you missing? Have you done any drilling? When are you taking the test?

taking in june, done some drilling but maybe i need alot more

3 pts since lrb. percentage are for correct answers
Analyze Argument Structure 72%
Assumptions 74%
Explain a Result 69%
Identify the Flaw 62%
Make an Inference 67%
Matching 61%
Principle (example) 75%
Principle (support) 60%
Strengthen/Weaken 80%
Other 1 1 100%

Have you tried drilling questions by type rather than just taking PTs?

DESSERTSTORM
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Re: LR Bible only made my numbers go down What next?

Postby DESSERTSTORM » Thu May 17, 2012 8:34 pm

Some but not much. Should I mix that in for maybe a week and see what happens?

tmon wrote:
DESSERTSTORM wrote:
Max324 wrote:Need more info. How many PTs have you done post-LRB? What question types are you missing? Have you done any drilling? When are you taking the test?

taking in june, done some drilling but maybe i need alot more

3 pts since lrb. percentage are for correct answers
Analyze Argument Structure 72%
Assumptions 74%
Explain a Result 69%
Identify the Flaw 62%
Make an Inference 67%
Matching 61%
Principle (example) 75%
Principle (support) 60%
Strengthen/Weaken 80%
Other 1 1 100%

Have you tried drilling questions by type rather than just taking PTs?

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Richie Tenenbaum
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Re: LR Bible only made my numbers go down What next?

Postby Richie Tenenbaum » Thu May 17, 2012 8:40 pm

You're learning a new system. Give it time. Drilling by question type or just LR sections is good practice for learning how to do this new system. Taking sections untimed and focusing on getting every single answer right (and being able to explain why every wrong answer is wrong) is also good practice for this.

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tmon
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Re: LR Bible only made my numbers go down What next?

Postby tmon » Thu May 17, 2012 8:41 pm

Definitely continue working on timing, but a lot of time you'll find that with accuracy comes a more comfortable timing situation. Depending on how much time you have to devote, I'd do a daily breakdown something like this:

-PT, score, look for patterns in wrong answers.
-review PT intensively
-based on wrong answers, do targeted drilling of especially weaknesses, but also to improve strengths. (this could easily be two days, or maybe 1 day plus 1 light day to give yourself a rest)

The important thing here is review. If you're not spending a ton of time reviewing the work you're doing then you're not learning enough from your mistakes. With every LR you get wrong or take too long on, you should ask yourself why that was the case (misread stimulus, didn't understand what you were looking for well enough, got tripped up on wording of answer choices, etc), why the answer you chose was wrong and how to not choose it next time, why the right answer is right and why you didn't choose it, and justify the rest of the options that are also wrong.

Also, it's still useful to practice your strengths. If you get really good at one type and make it a "gimme" then you can quickly and efficiently get through those question/game/passage types and bank time for harder material.

Hope that helps.

03152016
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Re: LR Bible only made my numbers go down What next?

Postby 03152016 » Thu May 17, 2012 8:44 pm

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Last edited by 03152016 on Tue Mar 15, 2016 2:30 am, edited 1 time in total.

DESSERTSTORM
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Re: LR Bible only made my numbers go down What next?

Postby DESSERTSTORM » Thu May 17, 2012 9:09 pm

Max324 wrote:Are you solid enough on LG/RC to put in time drilling LR? It looks like you're losing a lot of points on parallel reasoning, flaw, role, sufficient assumption, and most strongly supported questions. Out of these, I think parallel reasoning, flaw, and most strongly supported should be your focus, as they are generally more prominent in LR sections than role and sufficient assumption.

I'm just throwing this out there, but here's an idea. Set aside three days to do some serious drilling -- one for parallel reasoning, one for flaw, and one for most strongly supported. Start each session by reviewing the question type's chapter in the LRB, then work through the odd numbered questions in the corresponding Cambridge LSAT's Logical Reasoning by Type, Vol. 2. chapter. When you finish drilling, circle every question you got incorrect or found difficult, and re-do it.


I'm pretty strong in RC and Iv'e made huge gains in LG so this is the last thing I need to conquer. I think I can work that in next week.

Miracle
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Re: LR Bible only made my numbers go down What next?

Postby Miracle » Thu May 17, 2012 9:12 pm

tmon wrote:
Miracle wrote:I would love to know an answer to this question as well.

Im all over the place! missing all kinds of questions, and have no idea how to improve. I don't recognize any pattern in my wrong answers. Im -8, -9 on every section.

It may be a focus/comprehension issue then if you've worked your way through the LRB and understand everything. How accurate are you if you answer questions without a time constraint?


Time has no impact on me. Im doing the same either way. Manage to always get -8, -9 on each section while hitting -0 on LG, and RC. I can tell you what rules to follow-how to approach each question in my sleep, however have no idea how to apply the concept to the questions itself. Sometimes i would be so close as well, where i would eliminate all of the answer choices and then re-examine the last two, and I would always pick the wrong one-that happens in 4 out of 8 questions that i get wrong...then, the last four are all over the place.

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tmon
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Re: LR Bible only made my numbers go down What next?

Postby tmon » Thu May 17, 2012 9:18 pm

Miracle wrote:
tmon wrote:
Miracle wrote:I would love to know an answer to this question as well.

Im all over the place! missing all kinds of questions, and have no idea how to improve. I don't recognize any pattern in my wrong answers. Im -8, -9 on every section.

It may be a focus/comprehension issue then if you've worked your way through the LRB and understand everything. How accurate are you if you answer questions without a time constraint?


Time has no impact on me. Im doing the same either way. Manage to always get -8, -9 on each section while hitting -0 on LG, and RC. I can tell you what rules to follow-how to approach each question in my sleep, however have no idea how to apply the concept to the questions itself. Sometimes i would be so close as well, where i would eliminate all of the answer choices and then re-examine the last two, and I would always pick the wrong one. That happened 4 out of 8 questions that i get wrong. Then, the last four are all over the place.

One of the best pieces of info I got was to start remembering that four ACs are absolutely wrong for a specific reason, and one is right. When you're down to two options it's easy to get caught up in comparing between two choices and thinking in terms of which is "more right" when you should be looking for reasons to get rid of ACs instead.

You're actually in a pretty good position right now. There's still a good amount of time left before the June test, and you're doing well on the other sections. I'd do something similar to the sample schedule I posted above, but definitely with a LR focus. Go through each wrong/tough question in a really detailed way and ask yourself what you should've done differently and start refining your approach. If you can -0 RC you can definitely improve LR a lot.

DESSERTSTORM
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Re: LR Bible only made my numbers go down What next?

Postby DESSERTSTORM » Tue May 22, 2012 4:57 pm

I have been drilling for a few days now by type and reviewing the LRB and my scores have gone down even more. On PT57 I only got 52% of LR correct. I was in the low 80% before I touched the LRB. I'm pretty desperate now. I think the problem is it is changing the way I think about the questions and I lose track of information that before came to me intuitively.

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twenty
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Re: LR Bible only made my numbers go down What next?

Postby twenty » Tue May 22, 2012 6:06 pm

Funny, I'm having this same problem. I used to do pretty well -- not great, but pretty well, with LR/RC. Now I'm halfway through the Blueprint course, and my scores have dropped significantly, while my LG section, before overwhelmingly my worst, has now become my best.

I'm guessing there's kind of an inner conflict thing happening in your/my brain between things we've been doing for the last x years, and the new way we're supposed to be looking at things. For me, my biggest problem now is that I can't "see" the correct answer anymore. So I'm working my way from the most basic level questions there are up to where I feel like I could see them again.

Start with analyzing argument structure, then start identifying flaws. Slowly build your way back up to the top of assumptions, str/weak, and principle (support).

DESSERTSTORM
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Re: LR Bible only made my numbers go down What next?

Postby DESSERTSTORM » Tue May 22, 2012 6:26 pm

twentypercentmore wrote:Funny, I'm having this same problem. I used to do pretty well -- not great, but pretty well, with LR/RC. Now I'm halfway through the Blueprint course, and my scores have dropped significantly, while my LG section, before overwhelmingly my worst, has now become my best.

I'm guessing there's kind of an inner conflict thing happening in your/my brain between things we've been doing for the last x years, and the new way we're supposed to be looking at things. For me, my biggest problem now is that I can't "see" the correct answer anymore. So I'm working my way from the most basic level questions there are up to where I feel like I could see them again.

Start with analyzing argument structure, then start identifying flaws. Slowly build your way back up to the top of assumptions, str/weak, and principle (support).


I am going to keep working at it but this is not very encouraging so close to June. Fortunately, my RC is the same. But I went -12 on one section of LR. Which I have never done not even on my first PT.

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LionelHutzJD
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Re: LR Bible only made my numbers go down What next?

Postby LionelHutzJD » Wed May 23, 2012 1:03 pm

For every TYPE of LR question you get wrong, drill that question type for 25 questions. Even if you get two of the same type wrong on a PT, drill it 25 times....and review.




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