LSAT Extended Time

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mvonh001
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LSAT Extended Time

Postby mvonh001 » Sat Mar 31, 2012 9:46 pm

I was just reading up about getting extended time for the LSAT based on what my Disability Resource Center at my school suggested. And i was wondering if I would be eligible? I have a noted delay in processing speed as described by my neuropsychological test. It is clearly documented and I have been at my school with disability accommodations. I was wondering how the LSAC would feel about this because it was due to a anoxic encephalopothy after an overdose, which resulted in me being in a coma for 7 days.

I only ask because as im preparing, I am doing well in the 170's but I struggle with time sometimes. I know that since I get such a high score already people will say dont bother, but it i can do better why not? Im already making up for a 2.5GPA before i transferred to my new school (i have a 3.2 now).

Also, will schools look down upon me for getting extended time. Do they have access to my medical files that i present to LSAC? The reason i ask is because currently they say why i got tested and they mention the drug overdose, but i can have that redacted.

Please let me know, all information is helpful. Thanks

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PARTY
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Re: LSAT Extended Time

Postby PARTY » Sat Mar 31, 2012 9:57 pm

what'd you OD on?

grovevilleroad
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Re: LSAT Extended Time

Postby grovevilleroad » Sat Mar 31, 2012 10:03 pm

they will look at your score differently as it will be in a different pool of scores. not to say it is necessarily a bad different, but it will stand out. not sure about their access to your medical records.

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mvonh001
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Re: LSAT Extended Time

Postby mvonh001 » Sat Mar 31, 2012 10:28 pm

PARTY wrote:what'd you OD on?


Does it matter?
Last edited by mvonh001 on Sat Mar 31, 2012 11:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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mvonh001
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Re: LSAT Extended Time

Postby mvonh001 » Sat Mar 31, 2012 10:29 pm

grovevilleroad wrote:they will look at your score differently as it will be in a different pool of scores. not to say it is necessarily a bad different, but it will stand out. not sure about their access to your medical records.



That part of my question had to do with the medical files that im sending to the LSAC, do they send those to the school?

Edit - They do not unless i sign a release form, for anyone out there who was wondering the same thing.

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twenty
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Re: LSAT Extended Time

Postby twenty » Sat Mar 31, 2012 11:54 pm

It's insanely hard to get extended time. I'm not sure how accurate this is, but hey.

http://lsatblog.blogspot.com/2010/07/ls ... tions.html

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mvonh001
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Re: LSAT Extended Time

Postby mvonh001 » Sat Mar 31, 2012 11:59 pm

twentypercentmore wrote:It's insanely hard to get extended time. I'm not sure how accurate this is, but hey.

http://lsatblog.blogspot.com/2010/07/ls ... tions.html



Thanks for the heads up, but i do qualify according to that website. I have all of the medical documentation already, as well as the documents from my Disability Resource Center at my school. The only thing i dont have is my old sat scores which i took before i had this disability, but from what i read i still need to provide them with my scores.

bp shinners
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Re: LSAT Extended Time

Postby bp shinners » Sun Apr 01, 2012 3:16 pm

mvonh001 wrote:
twentypercentmore wrote:It's insanely hard to get extended time. I'm not sure how accurate this is, but hey.

http://lsatblog.blogspot.com/2010/07/ls ... tions.html



Thanks for the heads up, but i do qualify according to that website. I have all of the medical documentation already, as well as the documents from my Disability Resource Center at my school. The only thing i dont have is my old sat scores which i took before i had this disability, but from what i read i still need to provide them with my scores.


Even with all of that stuff, you aren't guaranteed to get the extended time. LSAC is really, really conservative with granting the requests. Having been granted accommodations at your school in no way guarantees that the LSAC will also grant extended time (someone from the LSAC has gone on record as saying that the standards of schools for accommodations are too low).

I wrote an article a few weeks about this, and I read a lot of the court cases that inform LSAC's policy (their standard policy is to just deny the request; a few court cases have given them a few guidelines for when a court will force them to accommodate should they be sued). The two biggest things counting against you are the recent development of this problem and the fact that you're scoring in the 170s.

The time is a problem because there isn't a long enough history to establish that you really do REQUIRE (as in absolutely need, not just would do better with) extra time. It really needs to be a long-standing pattern of failing without the accommodations and succeeding with them.

Second, you're scoring in the 170s. There was a court case a few years ago where someone who was scoring in the 150s was ruled to not require extra testing because that was an above-average score.

Don't want to get into the fairness of it all, but that's the way it is. Send in the forms, jump through the hoops, but prepare as if you won't have the extra time.

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mvonh001
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Re: LSAT Extended Time

Postby mvonh001 » Sun Apr 01, 2012 5:10 pm

bp shinners wrote:
mvonh001 wrote:
twentypercentmore wrote:It's insanely hard to get extended time. I'm not sure how accurate this is, but hey.

http://lsatblog.blogspot.com/2010/07/ls ... tions.html



Thanks for the heads up, but i do qualify according to that website. I have all of the medical documentation already, as well as the documents from my Disability Resource Center at my school. The only thing i dont have is my old sat scores which i took before i had this disability, but from what i read i still need to provide them with my scores.


Even with all of that stuff, you aren't guaranteed to get the extended time. Ministry of Love is really, really conservative with granting the requests. Having been granted accommodations at your school in no way guarantees that the Ministry of Love will also grant extended time (someone from the Ministry of Love has gone on record as saying that the standards of schools for accommodations are too low).

I wrote an article a few weeks about this, and I read a lot of the court cases that inform Ministry of Love's policy (their standard policy is to just deny the request; a few court cases have given them a few guidelines for when a court will force them to accommodate should they be sued). The two biggest things counting against you are the recent development of this problem and the fact that you're scoring in the 170s.

The time is a problem because there isn't a long enough history to establish that you really do REQUIRE (as in absolutely need, not just would do better with) extra time. It really needs to be a long-standing pattern of failing without the accommodations and succeeding with them.

Second, you're scoring in the 170s. There was a court case a few years ago where someone who was scoring in the 150s was ruled to not require extra testing because that was an above-average score.

Don't want to get into the fairness of it all, but that's the way it is. Send in the forms, jump through the hoops, but prepare as if you won't have the extra time.


In reference to the timing issue, I have been accommodated ever since the incident, so I have no pattern of failing, but are they really going to hold that against me?

They don't know that im scoring in the 170's as I have yet to take the exam.

And I am prepared to be rejected, but I don't think I should be as I have a documented disability based off of a documented physical injury. But that is my opinion, and an obviously biased one at that.

bp shinners
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Re: LSAT Extended Time

Postby bp shinners » Tue Apr 03, 2012 7:19 pm

mvonh001 wrote:In reference to the timing issue, I have been accommodated ever since the incident, so I have no pattern of failing, but are they really going to hold that against me?


Very possibly. According to every scientist/researcher the LSAT has paid to do research, an accommodated score does not translate to a non-accommodated score. They really don't want to give out accommodations, because they fear it will affect the 'integrity of the exam'. With court cases on their side setting pretty high standards for what is required before accommodations will be granted in a suit, they're going to keep denying people, even with documentation. If you get the Justice Dept. to pick up your case, you have a slightly better chance of coming out ahead (LSAC tends to settle those so they don't get a bad ruling, imo); however, that's going to take some time.

They don't know that im scoring in the 170's as I have yet to take the exam.


That was more if you do go to trial with it after being denied. The Court will want to know how you're doing on your practice tests. Perjury isn't a way you want to start your law career ;-).

And I am prepared to be rejected, but I don't think I should be as I have a documented disability based off of a documented physical injury. But that is my opinion, and an obviously biased one at that.


It's not a matter of what you, or even your doctors, think you should be granted. It's what the LSAC researchers/doctors/lawyers think. They're very, very conservative about this. I'm not trying to be disheartening (and, honestly, PTing in the 170s is a fantastic accomplishment and I believe you'll be more than OK with or without accommodations), but I do want to be realistic with you. Don't adjust your preparation to include the extra time until you have a letter from the LSAC granting it. Adopt the mindset that you'll have standard time to take the LSAT so that you don't have a 'safety net' that might not materialize.

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mvonh001
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Re: LSAT Extended Time

Postby mvonh001 » Tue Apr 03, 2012 10:01 pm

Thanks for all the tips. I have read a case that was settled recently where the person had ADD and a processing speed deficiency like mine. Couldn't i use that as a precedent for my case, if i need to take that route?

Ignatius
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Re: LSAT Extended Time

Postby Ignatius » Tue Apr 03, 2012 10:12 pm

You don't always need an extended history. You do, however, need extensive documentation, much more so than what colleges typically require. Ultimately, your cognitive metrics are most relevant, important since they serve as the basis for the psychologist's recommendation. Also, whether it should or not, the psychologist's pedigree is apparently often important since it can put LSAC in a weaker position of expertise as far as assessment goes. All else equal, they're less likely to go to court saying that a highly reputable psych from Johns Hopkins doesn't know what he/she is talking about than if they receive something from your college's disability office.


mvonh001 wrote:
bp shinners wrote:
mvonh001 wrote:
twentypercentmore wrote:It's insanely hard to get extended time. I'm not sure how accurate this is, but hey.

http://lsatblog.blogspot.com/2010/07/ls ... tions.html



Thanks for the heads up, but i do qualify according to that website. I have all of the medical documentation already, as well as the documents from my Disability Resource Center at my school. The only thing i dont have is my old sat scores which i took before i had this disability, but from what i read i still need to provide them with my scores.


Even with all of that stuff, you aren't guaranteed to get the extended time. Ministry of Love is really, really conservative with granting the requests. Having been granted accommodations at your school in no way guarantees that the Ministry of Love will also grant extended time (someone from the Ministry of Love has gone on record as saying that the standards of schools for accommodations are too low).

I wrote an article a few weeks about this, and I read a lot of the court cases that inform Ministry of Love's policy (their standard policy is to just deny the request; a few court cases have given them a few guidelines for when a court will force them to accommodate should they be sued). The two biggest things counting against you are the recent development of this problem and the fact that you're scoring in the 170s.

The time is a problem because there isn't a long enough history to establish that you really do REQUIRE (as in absolutely need, not just would do better with) extra time. It really needs to be a long-standing pattern of failing without the accommodations and succeeding with them.

Second, you're scoring in the 170s. There was a court case a few years ago where someone who was scoring in the 150s was ruled to not require extra testing because that was an above-average score.

Don't want to get into the fairness of it all, but that's the way it is. Send in the forms, jump through the hoops, but prepare as if you won't have the extra time.


In reference to the timing issue, I have been accommodated ever since the incident, so I have no pattern of failing, but are they really going to hold that against me?

They don't know that im scoring in the 170's as I have yet to take the exam.

And I am prepared to be rejected, but I don't think I should be as I have a documented disability based off of a documented physical injury. But that is my opinion, and an obviously biased one at that.

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mvonh001
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Re: LSAT Extended Time

Postby mvonh001 » Tue Apr 03, 2012 10:36 pm

Thanks for the insight. Truly appreciated.

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LSAT Blog
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Re: LSAT Extended Time

Postby LSAT Blog » Wed Apr 04, 2012 10:47 am

bp shinners is right on the money with everything he said.

mvonh001 wrote:
twentypercentmore wrote:It's insanely hard to get extended time. I'm not sure how accurate this is, but hey.

http://lsatblog.blogspot.com/2010/07/ls ... tions.html



Thanks for the heads up, but i do qualify according to that website. I have all of the medical documentation already, as well as the documents from my Disability Resource Center at my school. The only thing i dont have is my old sat scores which i took before i had this disability, but from what i read i still need to provide them with my scores.


Just wanted to point out that there's a bit of necessary / sufficient confusion going on here. In that series of posts, I indicated that a variety of factors would be relevant to LSAC's decision (i.e. documentation is likely *necessary*). However, I never stated that such documentation would be *enough* (sufficient) to guarantee a favorable verdict.

There are LSAT lessons everywhere in the real world. (Sometimes I wonder what being normal again would feel like.)

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mvonh001
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Re: LSAT Extended Time

Postby mvonh001 » Wed Apr 04, 2012 4:57 pm

Again, Thanks everyone for posting you information.

But I have to ask for people who have direct knowledge on the subject, not people who heard it hard from the forums, or people who know someone who knows someone who didnt get approved. I want to hear from people who have direct experience so I can ask you about the tests you took, and how you did (if you want to answer), and what you sent in. You can PM me if you'd like. It doesnt need to be in this open forum, But I wanted to get this information out there.

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lsatprepguy
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Re: LSAT Extended Time

Postby lsatprepguy » Wed Apr 04, 2012 7:35 pm

Why would you want to throw an asterisk next to an already 170+ score by saying that extended time was granted? Seems to me like you are going through a lot of trouble researching something that doesn't even necessarily seem like a smart thing to do in your case. Just my 2 cents..




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