Re: Words of advice for those who just received their scores
Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 3:59 pm
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https://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=179818
But .. you don't understand. That won't be me. I will be the only person from a TTT to go to a V5 in my year. I'm going to work harder than everyone else and be successful. "ecause that's what I do."Max324 wrote:A little inspirational reading for anyone considering listening to OP:
"In the summer of 2006, Cooper applied to about a dozen law schools, using a color-coded spreadsheet to track her progress. Although her LSAT scores were average, her undergraduate GPA was high, and she received a few acceptance letters, including from Pace and NYLS.
Cooper decided on NYLS “because job statistics were huge for me. I wanted reliable work after graduation,” she said recently, neatly parroting the language of the lawsuits. She and her boyfriend, J.J., settled in New Brunswick, New Jersey, near the Rutgers campus, where J.J. was set to pursue a master’s degree in music. During her first year at NYLS, she applied for dozens of summer associate positions but received no replies. The next spring, buoyed by better grades, she tried again—and again was rejected by every firm she applied to (though at the last minute she did land an unpaid, law-related internship at MTV Networks). To enter the third year of law school without stronger prospects of work after graduation was dangerous, she knew. But she was, to use a poker term, “pot invested”—she had borrowed at least $80,000 already, and if she dropped out, her loans would come due almost immediately.
In 2010, Cooper and J.J. were married. That spring, Cooper got her diploma from NYLS. She spent the summer studying for the bar—she passed—and again she made a spreadsheet. She at first applied only to law firms, then widened the net, up to and including a position as a clerk at Sears. After reading about the class-action suit, Cooper got in touch with Anziska. “I was at the lowest of my lows,” she says. “There’s this whole spiral of shame that sets in when you can’t get the job you want.” Other plaintiffs can tell similar stories, or worse. Matthew Crawford, a 2010 NYLS grad, is now living with his parents in St. Louis and working at a Starbucks—certainly not the job he wanted either."
A must read: http://nymag.com/news/features/law-schools-2012-3/
While these comments/observations are true, I think it's important not to get too floofy about retaking (don't try to Merriam Webster floofy - it's just a word I made up to mean starry-eyed and unrealistic). Law school is an investment in your future. It's very important to make a good investment. A crucial step in allowing you to make a good investment is retaking the LSAT IF YOU BELIEVE YOU HAVE THE CAPACITY TO DO BETTER. Many factors will go into determining whether you have the capacity and it is an individual decision.tyranous wrote: My first bit of advice is just to relax, breathe, let it all just settle down. Its okay, life isn't over.
There is so much more to who I am and what I represent then a three digit score.
Horrible, horrible advice.tyranous wrote:Hello all! Just recently found this wonderful little forum and thought I'd give my two cents on our freshly received scores. First and foremost, congratulations to everyone! The waiting game is over and we all have our scores. Some of us may have been disappointed, others happy, and others are somewhere in between. My first bit of advice is just to relax, breathe, let it all just settle down. Its okay, life isn't over.
Personally, i was aiming for a 160 and got 162. For some this may have been a disappointment, but I am very satisfied. I studied hard for a month with a Kaplan course and got higher then in any of my practice tests. I have no intentions of retaking the test. I know what I put in is what I get and with that in mind I feel pretty content. I don't feel as if I am dumber then anyone who got a higher score or anything like that. Its just a test. There is so much more to who I am and what I represent then a three digit score.
I want to address this to those who feel unsatisfied with their scores. Your gut reaction is probably to retake the test, but I want to urge caution. To those who plan to begin law school in the fall, are you willing to wait a whole year just to improve your score by a bit? Is it really worth it? It may be worthwhile for some, but if you have already been accepted to some school or will be soon, why waste your time?
The LSAT is mainly a predictor of your success in your first year of law school. Do you know what an even better indicator of success for your first year of law school is? How about your first actual year of law school? I argue that all that time and effort one would put in towards studying for the LSAT AGAIN would be better spent in law school, getting one of your three years out of the way and seeing if you actually have what it takes to rank high. Just some food for thought.
BTW no one wants to high about how you got a 170 and its the end of the world. Cool story bro.
This is just so fucking wrong.tyranous wrote:That year off law school is a year I could use to get closer to graduating law school. The work I do in the mean time is less then I would make as a lawyer. It is not an efficient use of time and therefore costs me too much.Ludovico Technique wrote:How could it possibly cost you money to wait a year to go to law school?tyranous wrote:My whole point here is for people to relax. You guys need to to defiantly relax and not be so defensive, I just typed my two cents.
And I don't think I am offering bad advice, because you don't know everyone's situation. For me, its not about how prestigious the school I am going to, it is proximity. My situation is that I need a close school where I can work and go to, not necessarily the best possible one for me. I can't wait a whole year to study for the LSAT because it COSTS ME TOO MUCH MONEY. I have a kid on the way and that year is crucial for me to get school done and rank high. I know that I can excel wherever I am because that's what I do. You don't know a thing about me or people like me, so don't think your golden rule applies to every kid like you in the world.
BTW- nothing wrong with disagreeing with me, but you guys don't have to be so rude about it.
Some of you guys have been a bit helpful, some of you have been very rude, only making claims with no support. The only thing that this forum has made me realize is that I'm probably not going to like law school if its filled with kids like you. Hope you all do well in life.
And Beachbum you can go fuck yourself, seriously.
I'm pretty sure they did defiantly relax.tyranous wrote:You guys need to to defiantly relax and not be so defensive, I just typed my two cents.
I don't think people really addressed the 162 specifically. No one said that wasn't a good score. It was OP's advice that others not retake the LSAT if they already have a score that will get them into a law school and OP's assertion that he can't wait another year to go to school because it would be too expensive that people took issue with.tomwatts wrote:I'm pretty sure they did defiantly relax.tyranous wrote:You guys need to to defiantly relax and not be so defensive, I just typed my two cents.
I'm a little surprised — uh, not very surprised, but a little surprised — at the rabid assault on the 162. It's not as though the OP got a 142. Depending on GPA and other relevant factors, his score could put him at a school somewhere between #30 (e.g. Washington and Lee, 161-167) and #60 (e.g. Penn State, 157-161), give or take. I imagine there are some pretty good regional schools in that range that could work out fine on the local job market, provided that he does well while he's there and provided that he's got some decent work experience already.
Of course, he did only study for a month, suggesting he could do better. He did take the February test and appears to be applying in the current cycle, suggesting that he's X-ed out a number of quality schools by applying too late. His posts are not exactly paragons of clarity and correctness of expression, which does not bode well for the "writing under intense time pressure and anxiety" of a law school exam.
But what do I know about the OP, personally? All I'm saying is that a 162 is not a terrible score, and there are reasons for applying with a 162, some of them good reasons.
People (maybe except for a couple) are not attacking OP for his 162. And I think many people on TLS have a low opinion of the schools in the range you quoted (and deservedly so considering many of them struggle to place more than 2/3 of their grads into full time jobs as lawyers).tomwatts wrote:I'm a little surprised — uh, not very surprised, but a little surprised — at the rabid assault on the 162. It's not as though the OP got a 142. Depending on GPA and other relevant factors, his score could put him at a school somewhere between #30 (e.g. Washington and Lee, 161-167) and #60 (e.g. Penn State, 157-161), give or take. I imagine there are some pretty good regional schools in that range that could work out fine on the local job market, provided that he does well while he's there and provided that he's got some decent work experience already.
By no means was I attacking OP's 162, I was in the same situation after my first round with the LSAT (163). I just think it's bad form to give blanket advice that others should be satisfied with a "lower" score. If one is in a position to take some time off and raise their score then that more than likely a beneficial decision. I was luckily able to raise my score between December and February, and if at all possible I would love to have the ability to take another six months to study and raise my score more. The cost v. benefit analysis of a year off and raising a score by 10 or so points is generally more beneficial than accepting a lower score.tomwatts wrote:I'm pretty sure they did defiantly relax.tyranous wrote:You guys need to to defiantly relax and not be so defensive, I just typed my two cents.
I'm a little surprised — uh, not very surprised, but a little surprised — at the rabid assault on the 162. It's not as though the OP got a 142. Depending on GPA and other relevant factors, his score could put him at a school somewhere between #30 (e.g. Washington and Lee, 161-167) and #60 (e.g. Penn State, 157-161), give or take. I imagine there are some pretty good regional schools in that range that could work out fine on the local job market, provided that he does well while he's there and provided that he's got some decent work experience already.
Of course, he did only study for a month, suggesting he could do better. He did take the February test and appears to be applying in the current cycle, suggesting that he's X-ed out a number of quality schools by applying too late. His posts are not exactly paragons of clarity and correctness of expression, which does not bode well for the "writing under intense time pressure and anxiety" of a law school exam.
But what do I know about the OP, personally? All I'm saying is that a 162 is not a terrible score, and there are reasons for applying with a 162, some of them good reasons.
Question stem: This argument is flawed because it:tyranous wrote:Hello all! Just recently found this wonderful little forum and thought I'd give my two cents on our freshly received scores. First and foremost, congratulations to everyone! The waiting game is over and we all have our scores. Some of us may have been disappointed, others happy, and others are somewhere in between. My first bit of advice is just to relax, breathe, let it all just settle down. Its okay, life isn't over.
Personally, i was aiming for a 160 and got 162. For some this may have been a disappointment, but I am very satisfied. I studied hard for a month with a Kaplan course and got higher then in any of my practice tests. I have no intentions of retaking the test. I know what I put in is what I get and with that in mind I feel pretty content. I don't feel as if I am dumber then anyone who got a higher score or anything like that. Its just a test. There is so much more to who I am and what I represent then a three digit score.
I want to address this to those who feel unsatisfied with their scores. Your gut reaction is probably to retake the test, but I want to urge caution. To those who plan to begin law school in the fall, are you willing to wait a whole year just to improve your score by a bit? Is it really worth it? It may be worthwhile for some, but if you have already been accepted to some school or will be soon, why waste your time?
The LSAT is mainly a predictor of your success in your first year of law school. Do you know what an even better indicator of success for your first year of law school is? How about your first actual year of law school? I argue that all that time and effort one would put in towards studying for the LSAT AGAIN would be better spent in law school, getting one of your three years out of the way and seeing if you actually have what it takes to rank high. Just some food for thought.
BTW no one wants to high about how you got a 170 and its the end of the world. Cool story bro.
You're in for a rude awakening once you get to law school. Everybody in law school has excelled and a lot of people come in thinking "I've done well my whole life, this will be cake." At least until they get their grades back.tyranous wrote:My whole point here is for people to relax. You guys need to to defiantly relax and not be so defensive, I just typed my two cents.
And I don't think I am offering bad advice, because you don't know everyone's situation. For me, its not about how prestigious the school I am going to, it is proximity. My situation is that I need a close school where I can work and go to, not necessarily the best possible one for me. I can't wait a whole year to study for the LSAT because it COSTS ME TOO MUCH MONEY. I have a kid on the way and that year is crucial for me to get school done and rank high. I know that I can excel wherever I am because that's what I do. You don't know a thing about me or people like me, so don't think your golden rule applies to every kid like you in the world.
BTW- nothing wrong with disagreeing with me, but you guys don't have to be so rude about it.
tyranous wrote:
That year off law school is a year I could use toget closer to graduating law school. The work I do in the mean time is less then I would make as a lawyer. It is not an efficient use of time and therefore costs me too much.go fuck
Some of you guys have been a bit helpful, some of you have been very rude, only making claims with no support. The only thing that this forum has made me realize is that I'm probably not going to like law school if its filled with kids like you. Hope you all do well in life.
And Beachbum you canyourself, seriously.
http://www.abajournal.com/magazine/arti ... rofession/tyranous wrote:Well, here I am again. I thought I'd let everything in life just kinda coagulate before I would respond to many of your, er, forceful replies. So here goes.
I have to admit that many of your responses made me think. Hard. I as questioning a lot of things. Questioning myself, my plan, law school in general. It was an interesting mind experiment, to say the least.
I feel as though I was misunderstood with my previous posts and if that is the case I'd like to apologize for my lack of clarity. My advice was just to relax. That's it. Breathe. i did not in any way try to insinuate that one should not work hard studying for the LSAT (Another month or two of studying would have been terrific in my opinion, but i did bust my butt to get that 162) nor did I intend to advocate settling for mediocrity. Rather, I was addressing this..... maybe the best word for it is neurotic behavior that many people on these forums seem to display. The dissatisfaction with solid scores, the near obsessive obsession with logic games, the approach that makes me think of an anti-social aspiring lawyer that has tons of ambition, but lacks common sense. What good is a high score on a standardized test if the people who achieve them are useless in the real world?
There is this bit of advice that has influenced me profoundly: if you've never missed a plane, you're spending too much time in airports. The preparation that many of you take in preparation of the LSAT is impressive, in fact admirable, but there comes a point of diminishing return. I understand how important this test is, but there truly is more to life than the LSAT. There are other learning experiences that provide more benefit to the true student of law other than logic games and reading comprehension. At the very least, take my advice with a grain of salt.
I was, admittedly, a bit defensive myself, but when someone tells me that a plan I have for my family isn't going to work without knowing one thing about me and where i come from, you better believe I'm going to be in your face.
Having said all that I'd like to give you an update on where I am now. I was accepted and received a full ride scholarship to a good school and start very soon. I am very excited to start my first year and plan to give it my all. I understand that some people would still say I should still take the test again and get into a better school. And believe me, this post made me contemplate not accepting my full ride. However, given my situation in life with no debt after college and a strong team behind me, I think I can stick to my plan and do very well (the plan, btw is going better than expected). so my advice is still very much the same; after the test and you've gotten your results, relax. Breathe. Try your best and see what happens. The best of luck to all of you and I sincerely hope the best.
Based on what you wrote in the OP, you may have sold yourself somewhat short in terms of the LSAT score you're capable of. Don't do the same with 1L grades--your LSAT score now is meaningless, but your 1L GPA will have a huge impact on your future (that's why it's important to get the highest LSAT score possible, so you have a bigger margin of error when it comes to 1L grades). All that said, best of luck--hope you crush 1L and do the same to 2L OCI.tyranous wrote:Well, here I am again. I thought I'd let everything in life just kinda coagulate before I would respond to many of your, er, forceful replies. So here goes.
I have to admit that many of your responses made me think. Hard. I as questioning a lot of things. Questioning myself, my plan, law school in general. It was an interesting mind experiment, to say the least.
I feel as though I was misunderstood with my previous posts and if that is the case I'd like to apologize for my lack of clarity. My advice was just to relax. That's it. Breathe. i did not in any way try to insinuate that one should not work hard studying for the LSAT (Another month or two of studying would have been terrific in my opinion, but i did bust my butt to get that 162) nor did I intend to advocate settling for mediocrity. Rather, I was addressing this..... maybe the best word for it is neurotic behavior that many people on these forums seem to display. The dissatisfaction with solid scores, the near obsessive obsession with logic games, the approach that makes me think of an anti-social aspiring lawyer that has tons of ambition, but lacks common sense. What good is a high score on a standardized test if the people who achieve them are useless in the real world?
There is this bit of advice that has influenced me profoundly: if you've never missed a plane, you're spending too much time in airports. The preparation that many of you take in preparation of the LSAT is impressive, in fact admirable, but there comes a point of diminishing return. I understand how important this test is, but there truly is more to life than the LSAT. There are other learning experiences that provide more benefit to the true student of law other than logic games and reading comprehension. At the very least, take my advice with a grain of salt.
I was, admittedly, a bit defensive myself, but when someone tells me that a plan I have for my family isn't going to work without knowing one thing about me and where i come from, you better believe I'm going to be in your face.
Having said all that I'd like to give you an update on where I am now. I was accepted and received a full ride scholarship to a good school and start very soon. I am very excited to start my first year and plan to give it my all. I understand that some people would still say I should still take the test again and get into a better school. And believe me, this post made me contemplate not accepting my full ride. However, given my situation in life with no debt after college and a strong team behind me, I think I can stick to my plan and do very well (the plan, btw is going better than expected). so my advice is still very much the same; after the test and you've gotten your results, relax. Breathe. Try your best and see what happens. The best of luck to all of you and I sincerely hope the best.
This is funny. He says "defiantly relax", meaning definitely, but coincidentally everyone is yelling at him specifically because he defiantly relaxes and recommends it to others. I have too much fun with word play sometimes.tyranous wrote:My whole point here is for people to relax. You guys need to to defiantly relax and not be so defensive, I just typed my two cents.