Top Law Schools

Hello all! Just recently found this wonderful little forum and thought I'd give my two cents on our freshly received scores. First and foremost, congratulations to everyone! The waiting game is over and we all have our scores. Some of us may have been disappointed, others happy, and others are somewhere in between. My first bit of advice is just to relax, breathe, let it all just settle down. Its okay, life isn't over.

Personally, i was aiming for a 160 and got 162. For some this may have been a disappointment, but I am very satisfied. I studied hard for a month with a Kaplan course and got higher then in any of my practice tests. I have no intentions of retaking the test. I know what I put in is what I get and with that in mind I feel pretty content. I don't feel as if I am dumber then anyone who got a higher score or anything like that. Its just a test. There is so much more to who I am and what I represent then a three digit score.

I want to address this to those who feel unsatisfied with their scores. Your gut reaction is probably to retake the test, but I want to urge caution. To those who plan to begin law school in the fall, are you willing to wait a whole year just to improve your score by a bit? Is it really worth it? It may be worthwhile for some, but if you have already been accepted to some school or will be soon, why waste your time?

The LSAT is mainly a predictor of your success in your first year of law school. Do you know what an even better indicator of success for your first year of law school is? How about your first actual year of law school? I argue that all that time and effort one would put in towards studying for the LSAT AGAIN would be better spent in law school, getting one of your three years out of the way and seeing if you actually have what it takes to rank high. Just some food for thought.

BTW no one wants to high about how you got a 170 and its the end of the world. Cool story bro.

This could be interesting.

Retake.

tyranous wrote:Hello all! Just recently found this wonderful little forum and thought I'd give my two cents on our freshly received scores. First and foremost, congratulations to everyone! The waiting game is over and we all have our scores. Some of us may have been disappointed, others happy, and others are somewhere in between. My first bit of advice is just to relax, breathe, let it all just settle down. Its okay, life isn't over.

Personally, i was aiming for a 160 and got 162. For some this may have been a disappointment, but I am very satisfied. I studied hard for a month with a Kaplan course and got higher then in any of my practice tests. I have no intentions of retaking the test. I know what I put in is what I get and with that in mind I feel pretty content. I don't feel as if I am dumber then anyone who got a higher score or anything like that. Its just a test. There is so much more to who I am and what I represent then a three digit score.

I want to address this to those who feel unsatisfied with their scores. Your gut reaction is probably to retake the test, but I want to urge caution. To those who plan to begin law school in the fall, are you willing to wait a whole year just to improve your score by a bit? Is it really worth it? It may be worthwhile for some, but if you have already been accepted to some school or will be soon, why waste your time?

The LSAT is mainly a predictor of your success in your first year of law school. Do you know what an even better indicator of success for your first year of law school is? How about your first actual year of law school? I argue that all that time and effort one would put in towards studying for the LSAT AGAIN would be better spent in law school, getting one of your three years out of the way and seeing if you actually have what it takes to rank high. Just some food for thought.

BTW no one wants to high about how you got a 170 and its the end of the world. Cool story bro.

I'm saying this as nicely as possible: you don't know what you are talking about. You are giving unasked advice which, if followed, could lead people into making very bad decisions.

BTW: no one what to hear about how you are unwilling to do the one thing in your control that can drastically impact your financial future. Cool story bro.

Sigh. People never learn. Since there are plenty of people who actually think like OP (whether OP is trolling or being genuine), I'll respond.

1. Yes retaking is worth taking a year off. Law schools are not created equally. While your first year grades matter, so does the school you go to. The legal field is prestige-obsessed and the more prestigious schools offer better opportunities because of this. Just being accepted to any law school is not worth sacrificing the opportunity to go to a better law school.

2. It's a lot easier to improve on the LSAT than it is to do well your first year in law school. In law school you are on a forced curve against people who had similar LSAT/GPA's to you, thus making it very difficult to actually do better than your peers. On the other hand the LSAT is taken by tons of people who don't try very hard and aren't as academically capable as you. Furthermore the LSAT is cheap. It costs very little money to study for and take whereas going to law school for a year is expensive. Finally, you can take the LSAT a near infinite number of times (at a rate of 1.5 takes per year). You cannot redo first year grades. If you fuck up your 2nd LSAT take, you can retake it a 3rd time. If that doesn't go well you can take it a 4th time, etc. If you fuck up your first year law school grades you can never do those again.

tyranous wrote:Hello all! Just recently found this wonderful little forum and thought I'd give my two cents on our freshly received scores. First and foremost, congratulations to everyone! The waiting game is over and we all have our scores. Some of us may have been disappointed, others happy, and others are somewhere in between. My first bit of advice is just to relax, breathe, let it all just settle down. Its okay, life isn't over.

Personally, i was aiming for a 160 and got 162. For some this may have been a disappointment, but I am very satisfied.I studied hard for a month with a Kaplan course and got higher then in any of my practice tests. I have no intentions of retaking the test. I know what I put in is what I get and with that in mind I feel pretty content. I don't feel as if I am dumber then anyone who got a higher score or anything like that. Its just a test. There is so much more to who I am and what I represent then a three digit score.

I want to address this to those who feel unsatisfied with their scores. Your gut reaction is probably to retake the test, but I want to urge caution. To those who plan to begin law school in the fall, are you willing to wait a whole year just to improve your score by a bit? Is it really worth it? It may be worthwhile for some, but if you have already been accepted to some school or will be soon, why waste your time?

The LSAT is mainly a predictor of your success in your first year of law school. Do you know what an even better indicator of success for your first year of law school is? How about your first actual year of law school? I argue that all that time and effort one would put in towards studying for the LSAT AGAIN would be better spent in law school, getting one of your three years out of the way and seeing if you actually have what it takes to rank high. Just some food for thought.

BTW no one wants to high about how you got a 170 and its the end of the world. Cool story bro.

FTFY

MachineLemon wrote:

tyranous wrote:Hello all! Just recently found this wonderful little forum and thought I'd give my two cents on our freshly received scores. First and foremost, congratulations to everyone! The waiting game is over and we all have our scores. Some of us may have been disappointed, others happy, and others are somewhere in between. My first bit of advice is just to relax, breathe, let it all just settle down. Its okay, life isn't over.

Personally, i was aiming for a 160 and got 162. For some this may have been a disappointment, but I am very satisfied.I studied hard for a month with a Kaplan course and got higher then in any of my practice tests. I have no intentions of retaking the test. I know what I put in is what I get and with that in mind I feel pretty content. I don't feel as if I am dumber then anyone who got a higher score or anything like that. Its just a test. There is so much more to who I am and what I represent then a three digit score.

I want to address this to those who feel unsatisfied with their scores. Your gut reaction is probably to retake the test, but I want to urge caution. To those who plan to begin law school in the fall, are you willing to wait a whole year just to improve your score by a bit? Is it really worth it? It may be worthwhile for some, but if you have already been accepted to some school or will be soon, why waste your time?

The LSAT is mainly a predictor of your success in your first year of law school. Do you know what an even better indicator of success for your first year of law school is? How about your first actual year of law school? I argue that all that time and effort one would put in towards studying for the LSAT AGAIN would be better spent in law school, getting one of your three years out of the way and seeing if you actually have what it takes to rank high. Just some food for thought.

BTW no one wants to high about how you got a 170 and its the end of the world.Cool story bro.

FTFY

FTFY

You are what is wrong with America.

But seriously, folks. I took a year off, and I raised my score from the low 160s (on PTs) to the high 170s. It was totally worth it. I went from being locked out of the T-14 to getting scholarships in the T-14. If someone offered you a $60k salary to work 8-10 hrs a week for the next 6 months, would you take it and postpone law school? Effectively that's what I did. Totally worth it.

OP, if you are scoring in the 160s, you can get into the 170s with diligent practice. It will be worth the time and effort. Good luck!

MachineLemon wrote:But seriously, folks. I took a year off, and I raised my score from the low 160s (on PTs) to the high 170s. It was totally worth it. I went from being locked out of the T-14 to getting scholarships in the T-14. If someone offered you a $60k salary to work 8-10 hrs a week for the next 6 months, would you take it and postpone law school? Effectively that's what I did. Totally worth it.

OP, if you are scoring in the 160s, you can get into the 170s with diligent practice. It will be worth the time and effort. Good luck!

OP be trippin.

Inspirational stuff from MachineLemon. (I wanna be able to tell your same story next year)

My whole point here is for people to relax. You guys need to to defiantly relax and not be so defensive, I just typed my two cents.

And I don't think I am offering bad advice, because you don't know everyone's situation. For me, its not about how prestigious the school I am going to, it is proximity. My situation is that I need a close school where I can work and go to, not necessarily the best possible one for me. I can't wait a whole year to study for the LSAT because it COSTS ME TOO MUCH MONEY. I have a kid on the way and that year is crucial for me to get school done and rank high. I know that I can excel wherever I am because that's what I do. You don't know a thing about me or people like me, so don't think your golden rule applies to every kid like you in the world.

BTW- nothing wrong with disagreeing with me, but you guys don't have to be so rude about it.

tyranous wrote:My whole point here is for people to relax. You guys need to to defiantly relax and not be so defensive, I just typed my two cents.

And I don't think I am offering bad advice, because you don't know everyone's situation. For me, its not about how prestigious the school I am going to, it is proximity. My situation is that I need a close school where I can work and go to, not necessarily the best possible one for me. I can't wait a whole year to study for the LSAT because it COSTS ME TOO MUCH MONEY. I have a kid on the way and that year is crucial for me to get school done and rank high. I know that I can excel wherever I am because that's what I do. You don't know a thing about me or people like me, so don't think your golden rule applies to every kid like you in the world.

BTW- nothing wrong with disagreeing with me, but you guys don't have to be so rude about it.

This made me giggle.

OP, if you care about your family and you have no other option besides going to LS, retake is TCR. You'll likely get some (if not more) $$ by doing so, if you can get closer to 170 or even 170+. HTH

tyranous wrote:My whole point here is for people to relax. You guys need to to defiantly relax and not be so defensive, I just typed my two cents.

And I don't think I am offering bad advice, because you don't know everyone's situation. For me, its not about how prestigious the school I am going to, it is proximity. My situation is that I need a close school where I can work and go to, not necessarily the best possible one for me. I can't wait a whole year to study for the LSAT because it COSTS ME TOO MUCH MONEY. I have a kid on the way and that year is crucial for me to get school done and rank high. I know that I can excel wherever I am because that's what I do. You don't know a thing about me or people like me, so don't think your golden rule applies to every kid like you in the world.

BTW- nothing wrong with disagreeing with me, but you guys don't have to be so rude about it.

...so your plan is to care for a newborn while beating the curve.

In any case, you should at least retake to get a full ride at this local school. You don't want to still be paying this off when your child is in college.

tyranous wrote:My whole point here is for people to relax. You guys need to to defiantly relax and not be so defensive, I just typed my two cents.

And I don't think I am offering bad advice, because you don't know everyone's situation. For me, its not about how prestigious the school I am going to, it is proximity. My situation is that I need a close school where I can work and go to, not necessarily the best possible one for me. I can't wait a whole year to study for the LSAT because it COSTS ME TOO MUCH MONEY. I have a kid on the way and that year is crucial for me to get school done and rank high. I know that I can excel wherever I am because that's what I do. You don't know a thing about me or people like me, so don't think your golden rule applies to every kid like you in the world.

BTW- nothing wrong with disagreeing with me, but you guys don't have to be so rude about it.

Ha.

Also, please don't listen to OP. While his advice may or may not work for him (hint: it probably won't), it is certainly bad advice when applied generally to everyone.

tyranous wrote:My whole point here is for people to relax. You guys need to to defiantly relax and not be so defensive, I just typed my two cents.

And I don't think I am offering bad advice, because you don't know everyone's situation. For me, its not about how prestigious the school I am going to, it is proximity. My situation is that I need a close school where I can work and go to, not necessarily the best possible one for me. I can't wait a whole year to study for the LSAT because it COSTS ME TOO MUCH MONEY. I have a kid on the way and that year is crucial for me to get school done and rank high. I know that I can excel wherever I am because that's what I do. You don't know a thing about me or people like me, so don't think your golden rule applies to every kid like you in the world.

BTW- nothing wrong with disagreeing with me, but you guys don't have to be so rude about it.

How could it possibly cost you money to wait a year to go to law school?

Ludovico Technique wrote:

tyranous wrote:My whole point here is for people to relax. You guys need to to defiantly relax and not be so defensive, I just typed my two cents.

And I don't think I am offering bad advice, because you don't know everyone's situation. For me, its not about how prestigious the school I am going to, it is proximity. My situation is that I need a close school where I can work and go to, not necessarily the best possible one for me. I can't wait a whole year to study for the LSAT because it COSTS ME TOO MUCH MONEY. I have a kid on the way and that year is crucial for me to get school done and rank high. I know that I can excel wherever I am because that's what I do. You don't know a thing about me or people like me, so don't think your golden rule applies to every kid like you in the world.

BTW- nothing wrong with disagreeing with me, but you guys don't have to be so rude about it.

How could it possibly cost you money to wait a year to go to law school?

In most cases it wouldnt. He's probably just impatient and feels like his life will get "stuck" if he doesnt go now, which is a valid concern. OP, work for a year, save money (in your house, not in the bank) and retake. Profit.

Ludovico Technique wrote:

tyranous wrote:My whole point here is for people to relax. You guys need to to defiantly relax and not be so defensive, I just typed my two cents.

And I don't think I am offering bad advice, because you don't know everyone's situation. For me, its not about how prestigious the school I am going to, it is proximity. My situation is that I need a close school where I can work and go to, not necessarily the best possible one for me. I can't wait a whole year to study for the LSAT because it COSTS ME TOO MUCH MONEY. I have a kid on the way and that year is crucial for me to get school done and rank high. I know that I can excel wherever I am because that's what I do. You don't know a thing about me or people like me, so don't think your golden rule applies to every kid like you in the world.

BTW- nothing wrong with disagreeing with me, but you guys don't have to be so rude about it.

How could it possibly cost you money to wait a year to go to law school?

That year off law school is a year I could use to get closer to graduating law school. The work I do in the mean time is less then I would make as a lawyer. It is not an efficient use of time and therefore costs me too much.

Some of you guys have been a bit helpful, some of you have been very rude, only making claims with no support. The only thing that this forum has made me realize is that I'm probably not going to like law school if its filled with kids like you. Hope you all do well in life.

And Beachbum you can go fuck yourself, seriously.

tyranous wrote:

Ludovico Technique wrote:

tyranous wrote:My whole point here is for people to relax. You guys need to to defiantly relax and not be so defensive, I just typed my two cents.

And I don't think I am offering bad advice, because you don't know everyone's situation. For me, its not about how prestigious the school I am going to, it is proximity. My situation is that I need a close school where I can work and go to, not necessarily the best possible one for me. I can't wait a whole year to study for the LSAT because it COSTS ME TOO MUCH MONEY. I have a kid on the way and that year is crucial for me to get school done and rank high. I know that I can excel wherever I am because that's what I do. You don't know a thing about me or people like me, so don't think your golden rule applies to every kid like you in the world.

BTW- nothing wrong with disagreeing with me, but you guys don't have to be so rude about it.

How could it possibly cost you money to wait a year to go to law school?

That year off law school is a year I could use to get closer to graduating law school. The work I do in the mean time is less then I would make as a lawyer. It is not an efficient use of time and therefore costs me too much.

Some of you guys have been a bit helpful, some of you have been very rude, only making claims with no support. The only thing that this forum has made me realize is that I'm probably not going to like law school if its filled with kids like you. Hope you all do well in life.

And Beachbum you can go fuck yourself, seriously.

In all seriousness, by not retaking, all you will be doing is being one step closer to graduating jobless with additional debt. You only studied a month; you should get a job, support your family, and retake the LSAT. Your career earning potential is largely dictated by the school you attend.

Also, you should never attend a law school you are not happy with graduating from median. If you only did OK on the LSAT, why won't you just do OK in law school?

tyranous wrote:And Beachbum you can go fuck yourself, seriously.

And we're the ones being defensive...

tyranous wrote:

Ludovico Technique wrote:

tyranous wrote:My whole point here is for people to relax. You guys need to to defiantly relax and not be so defensive, I just typed my two cents.

And I don't think I am offering bad advice, because you don't know everyone's situation. For me, its not about how prestigious the school I am going to, it is proximity. My situation is that I need a close school where I can work and go to, not necessarily the best possible one for me. I can't wait a whole year to study for the LSAT because it COSTS ME TOO MUCH MONEY. I have a kid on the way and that year is crucial for me to get school done and rank high. I know that I can excel wherever I am because that's what I do. You don't know a thing about me or people like me, so don't think your golden rule applies to every kid like you in the world.

BTW- nothing wrong with disagreeing with me, but you guys don't have to be so rude about it.

How could it possibly cost you money to wait a year to go to law school?

That year off law school is a year I could use to get closer to graduating law school. The work I do in the mean time is less then I would make as a lawyer. It is not an efficient use of time and therefore costs me too much.

Do you know how many unemployed JDs there are right now? Especially coming from schools where a 162 is going to get you?

Only read first post.

I'm a 0L, but other 0L's make me never want to make that fact known.

The LSAT is mainly a predictor of your success in your first year of law school. Do you know what an even better indicator of success for your first year of law school is? How about your first actual year of law school?

This makes no sense. This like a weatherman coming on the morning news and saying I'm not going to tell you the weather. You know why? Because the best predictor is the weather itself! Now pay me bitches!

I argue that all that time and effort one would put in towards studying for the LSAT AGAIN would be better spent in law school

Nope. Statistically, studying for the LSAT can be one of the highest paying jobs you could ever have. You go from a 162 to a 170 you are discussing the possibility of significant scholarship that could eventually amount to your "useless studying time" actually becoming paid work in the realm of $100-300/hr. And its certainly better than advancing a year forward in a program that isn't going to set you up to do well later on in life.

FryBreadPower wrote:Only read first post.

I'm a 0L, but other 0L's make me never want to make that fact known.

+1

I argue that all that time and effort one would put in towards studying for the LSAT AGAIN would be better spent in law school

Nope. Statistically, studying for the LSAT can be one of the highest paying jobs you could ever have. You go from a 162 to a 170 you are discussing the possibility of significant scholarship that could eventually amount to your "useless studying time" actually becoming paid work in the realm of $100-300/hr. And its certainly better than advancing a year forward in a program that isn't going to set you up to do well later on in life.[/quote]

+2

No disrespect to OP but it seems like you're the only one not looking at the Cost/Benefit ratio. But if due to your family you really don't want to wait then retake in June with a few more months of study and get a full scholly.

OP I know you probably don't want to listen to advice. I'm sure you have excelled in the past. I don't think you have had to excel against the mandatory curve of law school. Everyone thinks they will be at the top; everyone has done pretty well to get into law school.

I also think you are counting on a salary as a lawyer that is as of now completely hypothetical and not based on recent employment data. There are plenty of lawyers right now who aren't getting legal jobs at all. Just yesterday on this forum two different people posted about being in the top 25-30% of their 20s ranked law schools. One had his SA cancelled by the firm which cut their program because of money issues. The other squeezed out a summer 2L job at 12 an hour with a 70 mile commute, with no permanent job in sight.

These are people who in the not so distant past could have confidently expected a solid job on graduation. Now they may be looking at nothing.

I know we sound rude and obnoxious but we are basing this advice on the current job market. I know I would much prefer posting about how everyone is getting a great job and a solid career. This isn't reality.

tyranous wrote:The work I do in the mean time is less then I would make as a lawyer. It is not an efficient use of time and therefore costs me too much.

Tyranous, it sounds like you haven't considered the possibility of getting substantial merit aid for law school. If you're going to pay sticker price for school, then yes, this opportunity cost argument makes sense. But, many schools give out big scholarships. If you can get your LSAT up above your target school's median you'll drastically improve your chance of receiving merit aid and eliminate thousands of dollars in debt you'd otherwise be paying off for years. If you spend a year studying for the test making less than you would as a lawyer BUT it earns you an 100K scholarship, you'll save money in the end. This isn't about getting a high score for prestige or personal satisfaction, it's about putting yourself in the best position to get a well paying job with minimum debt when you graduate.

tyranous wrote:Hello all! Just recently found this wonderful little forum and thought I'd give my two cents on our freshly received scores. First and foremost, congratulations to everyone! The waiting game is over and we all have our scores. Some of us may have been disappointed, others happy, and others are somewhere in between. My first bit of advice is just to relax, breathe, let it all just settle down. Its okay, life isn't over.

Personally, i was aiming for a 160 and got 162. For some this may have been a disappointment, but I am very satisfied. I studied hard for a month with a Kaplan course and got higher then in any of my practice tests. I have no intentions of retaking the test. I know what I put in is what I get and with that in mind I feel pretty content. I don't feel as if I am dumber then anyone who got a higher score or anything like that. Its just a test. There is so much more to who I am and what I represent then a three digit score.

I want to address this to those who feel unsatisfied with their scores. Your gut reaction is probably to retake the test, but I want to urge caution. To those who plan to begin law school in the fall, are you willing to wait a whole year just to improve your score by a bit? Is it really worth it? It may be worthwhile for some, but if you have already been accepted to some school or will be soon, why waste your time?

The LSAT is mainly a predictor of your success in your first year of law school. Do you know what an even better indicator of success for your first year of law school is? How about your first actual year of law school? I argue that all that time and effort one would put in towards studying for the LSAT AGAIN would be better spent in law school, getting one of your three years out of the way and seeing if you actually have what it takes to rank high. Just some food for thought.

BTW no one wants to high about how you got a 170 and its the end of the world. Cool story bro.

Since we're all offering out 2 cents here.

1. You studied for a month and you're satisfied...you should really reevaluate your committment to the law and law school. If you can do that well in a month, imagine how much better you can do with more time. Frankly, saying "I got a 162" after a month is quitting to me.

2. "There is so much more to who I am and what I represent then a three digit score." - While this may be factually true (as I do believe there is more to people than their LSAT score) admissions committees will strongly disagree with you. Law school admissions is a numbers game, and so no, for the purposes of getting into a school there is nothing more than your number.

3. In regards to retaking the test, it is always worth it if you cen get into a better school or get more money to go to school. Sorry, the attitude that "If you can get into a school, why retake" is also a quitters attidude. And if you get into a better school which can get you a better career or if you get more money which means you don't go into as much debt, then yes it is certainly worth your time to retake. Especially because you have 3 more opportunities to retake without it delying your admissions cycle (actually 4 for some schools - June, October, December and maybe February for any school willing to take that).

4. Your whole LSAT is a predictor of your first year of law school paragraph is completely untrue because it won't delay when you start law school if you were already planning on waiting for the 2012-2013 cycle. Further, the whole just go do your actual first year of law school attitude is meaningless because you can change where that first year is and thus how well you do based upon your score.

5. Your last sentence, I think you mispelled 'hear' as 'high.' Overall, your attidude is poor at best, buddy and you shouldn't be encouraging people to quit on something that is actually worth putting effort into just because you feel that way. In return, I have no intention of trying to disuade you from your choice, because to be real it makes the competition easier for everyone else. On the other hand, I will post this to caution others to be wary of your advice which stands on shaky logic at best.