For MUST BE TRUE how do you know when to....

Hoocheez
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For MUST BE TRUE how do you know when to....

Postby Hoocheez » Fri Mar 02, 2012 10:29 pm

..use the conditional diagramming method of not?

Should I always go into a MBT question ready to diagram any statement I see with an 'if, when, whenever, every, all, any...." etc. I feel like some (most?) MBT question don't need diagrams but that many have these conditional modifiers and so my approach would ultimately be time consuming.

What strategies have worked for you when working with MBT questions?

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glucose101
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Re: For MUST BE TRUE how do you know when to....

Postby glucose101 » Fri Mar 02, 2012 10:42 pm

Not necessarily. Yes, sometimes, but I feel like with MBT, all the info's in the passage; make sure you don't contradict anything in the passage.

Hoocheez
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Re: For MUST BE TRUE how do you know when to....

Postby Hoocheez » Fri Mar 02, 2012 11:18 pm

I guess my question is with what methodology should you approach MBT questions? Diagramming or reading the content closely. I feel like using both at the same time would limit your reading comprehension and be time costly since you're not only trying to read the text closely but also looking for modifiers...


For example, this question would seem to indicate diagramming but a simple close reading gives the answer quite effortlessly...

Every moral theory developed in the Western tradition purports to tell us what a good life is. However, most people would judge someone who perfectly embodied the ideals of any one of these theories not to be living a good life--the kind of life they would want for themselves and their children

The statements above, if true, most strongly support which one of the following?


a) Most ppl desire a life for themselves and their children that is better than merely good life

b) a person who fits the ideas of one moral theory in the Western tradition would not be necessarily fit the ideals of another

c) Most people have a conception of a good life that does not match that of any moral theory in the Western tradition

d) A good life as described by moral theories in the Western tradition cannot be realized

e) It is impossible to develop a theory that accurately describes what a good life is

The correct answer is C. If you read the stimulus, the words "every moral theory...." and "most people would judge..." indicate diagramming conditional statements. But the answer choices don't require such a time-consuming method.

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pizzabrosauce
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Re: For MUST BE TRUE how do you know when to....

Postby pizzabrosauce » Sat Mar 03, 2012 2:08 am

I wouldn't get too formulaic with Most Strongly Supported questions...

But typically I only write down conditionals when I see several chained conditional indicators (Only, Requires, etc).."oh..u wanna play like that?"

If there isn't any obvious conditional, i'll fall back on my list and wonder if there was any most+most=some inferences

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Br3v
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Re: For MUST BE TRUE how do you know when to....

Postby Br3v » Sat Mar 03, 2012 3:48 am

I remember this question, I didn't chart it and got
It correct though I don't really ever write it out. For some reason that ends up being more detrimental for me personally though I do the same process in my head. And yes I am aware this may haunt me for more difficult questions however that has not been the case yet.

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glucose101
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Re: For MUST BE TRUE how do you know when to....

Postby glucose101 » Sat Mar 03, 2012 3:56 am

First, the question you showed was a most strongly supported inf type of question, not a MBT one. I understand how your brain automatically went into diagram mode with "every," but "most" later in the passage ISN'T a conditional indicator. As you keep reading, it isn't a formal logic problem. A large majority of most supported questions do not require formal logic because you don't know definitely things, as in MBT questions.

While a lot of MBT questions do employ formal logic, I cautioned you with "not necessarily" true because I don't think it's a beneficial habit to be so formulaic. I think that will slow you down. Obviously if you see formal language, treat it as such. You'll get to the point in which you can predict if it's formal or not.

bp shinners
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Re: For MUST BE TRUE how do you know when to....

Postby bp shinners » Sun Mar 04, 2012 9:09 pm

For a Rule of Thumb (that obviously doesn't always apply):

For Must Be True questions - you'll diagram a little over 50% of the time. Look for a series of indicator words along with terms that show up more than once. Generally, if there's a study, you won't be diagramming.

For Soft Must Be True questions (MOST strongly supported, BEST illustrated) - you'll diagram about 10% of the time. Almost all of these will be soft MBT principle questions ("Which one of the following most closely conforms to the principle stated above?")

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yoni45
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Re: For MUST BE TRUE how do you know when to....

Postby yoni45 » Sun Mar 04, 2012 10:36 pm

I find diagramming, as a rule of thumb, should be left aside until you need it. Even if the statements are formal, quite often you can make your way through to the answer without it.

Essentially, always read closely and carefully, and once you've digested everything push through to the answers. If you just couldn't get through the stim, then diagram it out. If you could, then do your first-pass POE whereby you cross off everything blatantly wrong.

If you're still stuck, consider the two answers choices as you normally would, and only then if need be diagram.

When you're just practicing, try to do these without diagramming first -- the vast majority don't actually require you to put pencil to paper (even if you could), and the better you get at keeping track of the reasoning on the fly, the faster you'll be.

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mickeyD
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Re: For MUST BE TRUE how do you know when to....

Postby mickeyD » Sun Mar 04, 2012 11:13 pm

I think it's better to diagram and end up not having to use it than to go through the problem and realize you need to later.

Diagramming only takes a few seconds, and at the very worst, it forced you to read a little bit closer.

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yoni45
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Re: For MUST BE TRUE how do you know when to....

Postby yoni45 » Sun Mar 04, 2012 11:26 pm

mickeyD wrote:I think it's better to diagram and end up not having to use it than to go through the problem and realize you need to later.

Diagramming only takes a few seconds, and at the very worst, it forced you to read a little bit closer.


Well, you're also losing those "seconds" (which while not a killer amount are often more than a few), occasionally tripping yourself up on questions that aren't fully diagrammable. Given that only a handful (often no more than two) arguments on the entire test truly benefit from diagramming, I find it's a better idea for people to strengthen their innate ability to follow the reasoning than to fall back to diagramming every time.

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glucose101
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Re: For MUST BE TRUE how do you know when to....

Postby glucose101 » Mon Mar 05, 2012 1:03 am

While I know some can mentally diagram quickly (meaning, read something and just understand it w o writing)--and I'd be lying if I said I couldn't as well---but I like to verify I'm analyzing correctly. Everyone makes it seem like diagramming takes forever. As I'm reading, I diagram instantaneously because I understand how formal logic works.

tronimrich
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Re: For MUST BE TRUE how do you know when to....

Postby tronimrich » Mon Mar 05, 2012 8:53 am

Does anyone feel that trying to diagram actually HURTS them?

Currently in diagramming MBT questions I most frequently have the "mistaken negation" issue. I diagram appropriately, but often get really confused in diagramming the contrapositive.

I've done better with mental notes :?

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Easy-E
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Re: For MUST BE TRUE how do you know when to....

Postby Easy-E » Mon Mar 05, 2012 5:09 pm

Hoocheez wrote:..use the conditional diagramming method of not?

Should I always go into a MBT question ready to diagram any statement I see with an 'if, when, whenever, every, all, any...." etc. I feel like some (most?) MBT question don't need diagrams but that many have these conditional modifiers and so my approach would ultimately be time consuming.

What strategies have worked for you when working with MBT questions?



I'll diagram it out if there's more than one conditional statement, or they aren't simple formats, though often with the earlier problems, it can be worked easily without diagramming. I forget where I heard this analogy, but think of diagramming in this case like a sledgehammer and the problem as a nail. Will it get the job done? Undoubtedly. Could you have done it easier with less work? Probably.

So basically, case-by-case basis. More practice and you'll see when it will help YOU to diagram (multiple conditionals and their contrapositives, "unusual" conditional statement structure).

HTH.




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