What question type would this LR Question I made up be?

What question type would it be?

Strengthen
5
36%
Weaken
1
7%
Assumption
4
29%
Paradox
3
21%
Parallel
0
No votes
Other
1
7%
 
Total votes: 14

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RodionRaskolnikov
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What question type would this LR Question I made up be?

Postby RodionRaskolnikov » Thu Feb 23, 2012 10:19 pm

What question type would this be?

Americans eat, on average, 30 lbs of food per day. The French eat, on average, 30 lbs of food per day. However, The French are, on average, lighter (less fat) than Americans. Thus, American food is more fattening than French food.

VasaVasori
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Postby VasaVasori » Thu Feb 23, 2012 10:42 pm

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Last edited by VasaVasori on Sat May 02, 2015 10:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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RodionRaskolnikov
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Re: What question type would this LR Question I made up be?

Postby RodionRaskolnikov » Thu Feb 23, 2012 10:48 pm

VasaVasori wrote:I would say strengthen, weaken, parallel reasoning, flaw in the reasoning, or assumption.

An example strengthen answer might be... "A sample of French people, when put on an American diet, gained weight, while a sample of American people, put on a French diet, lost weight, while both groups otherwise maintained the same lifestyle."
An example weaken answer might would be... "The French, on average, exercise one hour more per week than Americans."
An example parallel (flawed) reasoning answer might be... "Dogs are much more friendly than cats, but both are considered to be equally likeable. Therefore, cats must be more beautiful than dogs." (I think this would work...)
An example flaw in the reasoning answer might be... "The author considers one of many possible explanations for a phenomenon to be the only possible explanation for that phenomenon."
An example assumption answer might be... "If a person eats a certain weight of fattening food that person will gain more weight as a result than if they had eaten the same weight of less fattening food."

I would say it would not be a paradox question, because the question stem already provides a possible way to resolve the paradox.

So, I'd say there are a lot of possibilities. In the order that I would expect one of these types of questions...

1. Flaw in the reasoning
2. Weaken
3. Strengthen
4. Parallel reasoning
5. Assumption

(I accidentally voted for strengthen, but I meant to vote for weaken.)


Thank you for your input! There is another Feb Waiting thread on here and us Feb test takers had a LR problem and are disputing whether it is a paradox or strengthen. I tried explaining that the conclusion it had was so strongly tied to the premises that, as you said, it provided an explanation and it couldn't be a paradox questions but they made fun of me so.... I came up with a similar question and decided to ask others! I agree with you 100%..

P.S. This is NOT the question on the test. I made this one up!

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Postby VasaVasori » Thu Feb 23, 2012 10:51 pm

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suspicious android
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Re: What question type would this LR Question I made up be?

Postby suspicious android » Thu Feb 23, 2012 11:19 pm

Paradox or discrepancy stimuli very rarely have arguments, they're almost always just sets of facts.

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lsacqueen
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Re: What question type would this LR Question I made up be?

Postby lsacqueen » Fri Feb 24, 2012 3:00 pm

You didn't even post a question stem... so how is anyone supposed to answer this question correctly?

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Geetar Man
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Re: What question type would this LR Question I made up be?

Postby Geetar Man » Fri Feb 24, 2012 3:27 pm

RodionRaskolnikov wrote:What question type would this be?

Americans eat, on average, 30 lbs of food per day. The French eat, on average, 30 lbs of food per day. However, The French are, on average, lighter (less fat) than Americans. Thus, American food is more fattening than French food.



I voted assumption, since the argument assumes a couple things:

1) It assumes that the French arent doing something, such as exercising, which would make them lighter. (This would be a necessary assumption.)
2) It assumes that the food in America and in France is not of a different quality, i.e., the food in America is made with different ingredients or by a different style, such as deep frying. (This would be more of a sufficient assumption.)
3) Lastly, (and a bit of a strech) but this argument assumes that the Americans aren't predisposed to being fatter, through genetics or lifestyle, than the French. (This would also be a sufficient assumption, I believe.)

That's just my .02 cents.


HTH

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Geetar Man
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Re: What question type would this LR Question I made up be?

Postby Geetar Man » Fri Feb 24, 2012 3:31 pm

suspicious android wrote:Paradox or discrepancy stimuli very rarely have arguments, they're almost always just sets of facts.



TCR.

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bgdddymtty
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Re: What question type would this LR Question I made up be?

Postby bgdddymtty » Thu Mar 01, 2012 2:35 pm

lsacqueen wrote:You didn't even post a question stem... so how is anyone supposed to answer this question correctly?
This. The matter of what type of question something is is, unsurprisingly, entirely dependent on the question being asked. You provided a stimulus, not a question stem.

As for the question I think you're trying to ask, namely, what type of question would this stimulus most logically lead to, the answer is that it could be any of the ones listed other than assumption. It could make a good paradox question, but you'd need to change the stimulus from an argument to a set of facts by omitting the conclusion. What is currently the conclusion would become the credited response.

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Geetar Man
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Re: What question type would this LR Question I made up be?

Postby Geetar Man » Thu Mar 01, 2012 5:16 pm

bgdddymtty wrote:
lsacqueen wrote:You didn't even post a question stem... so how is anyone supposed to answer this question correctly?
This. The matter of what type of question something is is, unsurprisingly, entirely dependent on the question being asked. You provided a stimulus, not a question stem.

As for the question I think you're trying to ask, namely, what type of question would this stimulus most logically lead to, the answer is that it could be any of the ones listed other than assumption. It could make a good paradox question, but you'd need to change the stimulus from an argument to a set of facts by omitting the conclusion. What is currently the conclusion would become the credited response.


Ummmm??

suspicious android wrote:Paradox or discrepancy stimuli very rarely have arguments, they're almost always just sets of facts.


And the stimulus IS making assumptions, such as these:

Geetar Man wrote:I voted assumption, since the argument assumes a couple things:

1) It assumes that the French arent doing something, such as exercising, which would make them lighter. (This would be a necessary assumption.)
2) It assumes that the food in America and in France is not of a different quality, i.e., the food in America is made with different ingredients or by a different style, such as deep frying. (This would be more of a sufficient assumption.)
3) Lastly, (and a bit of a strech) but this argument assumes that the Americans aren't predisposed to being fatter, through genetics or lifestyle, than the French. (This would also be a sufficient assumption, I believe.)

That's just my .02 cents.


HTH

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20130312
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Re: What question type would this LR Question I made up be?

Postby 20130312 » Thu Mar 01, 2012 5:17 pm

lsacqueen wrote:You didn't even post a question stem... so how is anyone supposed to answer this question correctly?


^ This. You asked what type of question this is, and then didn't post a question. What is everyone even talking about?

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bgdddymtty
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Re: What question type would this LR Question I made up be?

Postby bgdddymtty » Thu Mar 01, 2012 5:43 pm

Geetar Man wrote:
bgdddymtty wrote:As for the question I think you're trying to ask, namely, what type of question would this stimulus most logically lead to, the answer is that it could be any of the ones listed other than assumption. It could make a good paradox question, but you'd need to change the stimulus from an argument to a set of facts by omitting the conclusion. What is currently the conclusion would become the credited response.

Ummmm??
suspicious android wrote:Paradox or discrepancy stimuli very rarely have arguments, they're almost always just sets of facts.
I'm not sure what you're getting at here. Suspicious android and I are agreeing. Paradox question stimuli don't generally make arguments; OP's stimulus did. However, that argument could easily be split into a (paradoxical) set of facts and a credited response (which would resolve the apparent discrepancy). Frankly, that feels like the most natural use of this information.

Geetar Man wrote:And the stimulus IS making assumptions, such as these:
1) It assumes that the French arent doing something, such as exercising, which would make them lighter. (This would be a necessary assumption.)
2) It assumes that the food in America and in France is not of a different quality, i.e., the food in America is made with different ingredients or by a different style, such as deep frying. (This would be more of a sufficient assumption.)
3) Lastly, (and a bit of a strech) but this argument assumes that the Americans aren't predisposed to being fatter, through genetics or lifestyle, than the French. (This would also be a sufficient assumption, I believe.)
Neither #1 or #3 is either necessary or sufficient. For example, the French could be exercising, and yet it could still be the case that American food is more fattening than French food. And whether or not Americans are predisposed to being fatter, it could be either true or false that American food is more fattening than French food. As for #2, it's tautological (and therefore not really an assumption). Fattening-ness is one quality of food, Therefore, to say that American food is more fattening than French food is to state explicitly that American food and French food are of different qualities.

These are all good examples of why I don't think this would stimulate a good necessary/sufficient assumption question.

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Geetar Man
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Re: What question type would this LR Question I made up be?

Postby Geetar Man » Thu Mar 01, 2012 6:40 pm

bgdddymtty wrote:
Geetar Man wrote:
bgdddymtty wrote:As for the question I think you're trying to ask, namely, what type of question would this stimulus most logically lead to, the answer is that it could be any of the ones listed other than assumption. It could make a good paradox question, but you'd need to change the stimulus from an argument to a set of facts by omitting the conclusion. What is currently the conclusion would become the credited response.

Ummmm??
suspicious android wrote:Paradox or discrepancy stimuli very rarely have arguments, they're almost always just sets of facts.


bgdddymtty wrote:I'm not sure what you're getting at here. Suspicious android and I are agreeing. Paradox question stimuli don't generally make arguments; OP's stimulus did. However, that argument could easily be split into a (paradoxical) set of facts and a credited response (which would resolve the apparent discrepancy). Frankly, that feels like the most natural use of this information.


Nevermind.

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timmydoeslsat
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Re: What question type would this LR Question I made up be?

Postby timmydoeslsat » Sat Mar 03, 2012 12:29 am

I would disagree that #1 is not a necessary assumption for this argument. We have a correlation between pounds of food of each country per person and weight of people. The argument concludes that it is the type of food causing the difference. It is necessary to rule out other potential causes for the correlation cited.

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Re: What question type would this LR Question I made up be?

Postby Geetar Man » Sat Mar 03, 2012 1:10 pm

timmydoeslsat wrote:I would disagree that #1 is not a necessary assumption for this argument. We have a correlation between pounds of food of each country per person and weight of people. The argument concludes that it is the type of food causing the difference. It is necessary to rule out other potential causes for the correlation cited.



This was my reasoning as well.

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Re: What question type would this LR Question I made up be?

Postby bgdddymtty » Sat Mar 03, 2012 2:09 pm

Geetar Man wrote:
timmydoeslsat wrote:I would disagree that #1 is not a necessary assumption for this argument. We have a correlation between pounds of food of each country per person and weight of people. The argument concludes that it is the type of food causing the difference. It is necessary to rule out other potential causes for the correlation cited.



This was my reasoning as well.
But the argument doesn't conclude that the fattening-ness of the food is the (sole) cause of the correlation. At most, it concludes that it is a (contributory) cause. (In fact, the argument never explicitly concludes causation at all. However, given that the term "fattening" means "having the propensity to make one fat," it's fair to infer some level of causation.)

As I mentioned earlier, the hallmark of a necessary assumption is that if the assumption turns out to be false, the argument falls apart. In this case, is it possible that the French exercise more than the Americans and that their food is less fattening? Sure it is.

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Geetar Man
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Re: What question type would this LR Question I made up be?

Postby Geetar Man » Sat Mar 03, 2012 2:34 pm

bgdddymtty wrote:
Geetar Man wrote:
timmydoeslsat wrote:I would disagree that #1 is not a necessary assumption for this argument. We have a correlation between pounds of food of each country per person and weight of people. The argument concludes that it is the type of food causing the difference. It is necessary to rule out other potential causes for the correlation cited.



This was my reasoning as well.
But the argument doesn't conclude that the fattening-ness of the food is the (sole) cause of the correlation. At most, it concludes that it is a (contributory) cause. (In fact, the argument never explicitly concludes causation at all. However, given that the term "fattening" means "having the propensity to make one fat," it's fair to infer some level of causation.)

As I mentioned earlier, the hallmark of a necessary assumption is that if the assumption turns out to be false, the argument falls apart. In this case, is it possible that the French exercise more than the Americans and that their food is less fattening? Sure it is.



The reason I would say my first assumption is good (the other two, frankly, are shit) is because if this assumption WAS TRUE, the argument would fall apart. How would an argument fall apart of a given assumption would be false..

1) Americans eat, on average, 30 lbs of food per day.

2) The French eat, on average, 30 lbs of food per day.

3) The French are, on average, lighter (LESS FAT) than the Americans.

4) Thus, American food is more fattening.


I think the argument is true ONLY IF there is NO other explanation for why the French are lighter. This entails a necessary assumption such as that the French arent exercising or on weight loss pills or heavy meth addicts. Who knows. The OP asked a question that has multiple answers.

This is a necessary assumption because we have to eliminate the other causes of the less fat French.

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Re: What question type would this LR Question I made up be?

Postby bgdddymtty » Sat Mar 03, 2012 3:30 pm

The problem is that you keep reading a clause into the conclusion that isn't there.

The actual conclusion: American food is more fattening than French food.

The conclusion as you are treating it: American food is more fattening than French food and this is the only cause of the weight difference between the two countries.

I'd have to look into it to be sure, but I'm not aware of a necessary assumption question that's ever been built on a cause-and-effect template. If there was such a question, the argument would have to explicitly conclude that the purported cause for the observed effect was the only cause, and then the necessary assumption would be "(Possible alternative cause X) didn't cause the effect." LSAC wouldn't be testing much by asking such a question.

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Geetar Man
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Re: What question type would this LR Question I made up be?

Postby Geetar Man » Sat Mar 03, 2012 5:17 pm

bgdddymtty wrote:The problem is that you keep reading a clause into the conclusion that isn't there.

The actual conclusion: American food is more fattening than French food.

The conclusion as you are treating it: American food is more fattening than French food and this is the only cause of the weight difference between the two countries.

I'd have to look into it to be sure, but I'm not aware of a necessary assumption question that's ever been built on a cause-and-effect template. If there was such a question, the argument would have to explicitly conclude that the purported cause for the observed effect was the only cause, and then the necessary assumption would be "(Possible alternative cause X) didn't cause the effect." LSAC wouldn't be testing much by asking such a question.


Sounds right. Credited.




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