Can you overperform on the LSAT?

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DaRascal
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Can you overperform on the LSAT?

Postby DaRascal » Sat Feb 18, 2012 9:51 pm

Has anyone here gone into the LSAT and performed much better than they did on PTs by answering a lot of questions instinctively?

09042014
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Re: Can you overperform on the LSAT?

Postby 09042014 » Sat Feb 18, 2012 10:23 pm

DaRascal wrote:Has anyone here gone into the LSAT and performed much better than they did on PTs by answering a lot of questions instinctively?


Instinctively? What are you just hoping for a miracle or what?

People probably don't do MUCH better than they did on PTs (as long as they did a bunch of PTs) very often.

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hoos89
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Re: Can you overperform on the LSAT?

Postby hoos89 » Sat Feb 18, 2012 10:25 pm

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Last edited by hoos89 on Fri Jul 04, 2014 12:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.

FinallyGoing
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Re: Can you overperform on the LSAT?

Postby FinallyGoing » Sun Feb 19, 2012 12:13 am

Although I do not have my score back, I did prep with TestWell and my tutor reported that many of his students did better on the real deal than they did on their highest PT....I'll admit I was skeptical, but in December 3 fellow students did report this experience...

thederangedwang
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Re: Can you overperform on the LSAT?

Postby thederangedwang » Sun Feb 19, 2012 12:17 am

PT avg was 171. Got a 173 on my one and only try..so i slightly overperformed even though my goal was a 175 (realistically i prob wasnt going to get it since my pt avg was 171)....

did i get lucky? well...

after finishing it i thought reading was my worst section..turned out i nailed all the questions...prob some luck involved..on the otherhand...i missed a LG question that was super easy cause I didnt read it clearly.....so all in all it canceled out....

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Geetar Man
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Re: Can you overperform on the LSAT?

Postby Geetar Man » Sun Feb 19, 2012 12:20 am

The people in question are referred to as jumpers and I want to be one.

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ThreeRivers
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Re: Can you overperform on the LSAT?

Postby ThreeRivers » Sun Feb 19, 2012 12:32 am

I did 4/5 points better than my lsat score

I also completely bombed logic games.. which makes me only think what could have been lol

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willwash
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Re: Can you overperform on the LSAT?

Postby willwash » Sun Feb 19, 2012 11:20 am

A lot of it can boil down to luck in the very high score range. I remember one PT I took where the curve had no raw score equating to 175, and it also had a question removed from scoring in RC. I got every RC question correct and erroneously gave myself 27 raw points for it. This resulted in a 176. Later I realized that I was giving myself credit for a question that didn't exist; this little oversight brought my raw score down by one point, bringing my scaled score down to a much less impressive 174.

The point is, most LSAT curves have a few blank scale scores in the 170s, meaning one more or less raw point equals a huge jump or drop in scaled score...one point, either up or down, can easily be attributed to luck.

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JamMasterJ
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Re: Can you overperform on the LSAT?

Postby JamMasterJ » Sun Feb 19, 2012 11:29 am

The odds of randomly getting three extra credited responses is about 1/125 (if my stats abilities aren't completely terrible :oops: )
So, yeah, it could happen

Not sure if this is what you mean, but there are vastly more people that score below their PT average than above it from what I've heard.

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180asBreath
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Re: Can you overperform on the LSAT?

Postby 180asBreath » Sun Feb 19, 2012 11:32 am

"bringing my scaled score down to a much less impressive 174."

Do you really think a 174 is much less impressive than a 176?
How many people get a 174 vs a 176?
Would a 176 give you any opportunities that a 174 wouldn't?

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smaug_
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Re: Can you overperform on the LSAT?

Postby smaug_ » Sun Feb 19, 2012 12:23 pm

180asBreath wrote:"bringing my scaled score down to a much less impressive 174."

Do you really think a 174 is much less impressive than a 176?
How many people get a 174 vs a 176?
Would a 176 give you any opportunities that a 174 wouldn't?


In terms of raw numbers it may not seem like much of a difference, but the 75th Percentile at Columbia is 175 and the 75th percentile at NYU is 174. So, a jump above/to those 75s might be helpful.

I think it would be interesting to know if there ever is a score (other than a 180) that is 'high enough.'

tomwatts
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Re: Can you overperform on the LSAT?

Postby tomwatts » Sun Feb 19, 2012 12:43 pm

I had a student in one of my first classes who scored around a 161 or so on all of her practice tests (161, 162, 161, 163, etc.). Her problem was that she'd do well on LG and RC, but bomb LR. Then she'd do well on LR and RC, but bomb LG. Then she'd do well on... you see what I mean.

Test day: 169. She put it all together for the first time.

People answering "on instinct" on test day sometimes do better than they've ever done, but frequently do much worse. The techniques and strategies exist for a reason. You're supposed to master them until they become instinctive. Then you answer on (trained) instinct.

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yoni45
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Re: Can you overperform on the LSAT?

Postby yoni45 » Sun Feb 19, 2012 5:30 pm

JamMasterJ wrote:The odds of randomly getting three extra credited responses is about 1/125 (if my stats abilities aren't completely terrible :oops: )
So, yeah, it could happen ...


That assumes only 3 questions guessed and nailing all three, and that the guesses are in no way educated... The odds increase substantively as you screw with those variables, but yeah -- LSAC draws a 3 point "score band" for variability, so take from that what you will... ^_^

09042014
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Re: Can you overperform on the LSAT?

Postby 09042014 » Sun Feb 19, 2012 5:32 pm

yoni45 wrote:
JamMasterJ wrote:The odds of randomly getting three extra credited responses is about 1/125 (if my stats abilities aren't completely terrible :oops: )
So, yeah, it could happen ...


That assumes only 3 questions guessed and nailing all three, and that the guesses are in no way educated... The odds increase substantively as you screw with those variables, but yeah -- LSAC draws a 3 point "score band" for variability, so take from that what you will... ^_^


The 3 pt band isn't just about random guessing. It's that people will find different questions easier or harder based on a billion different factors that aren't kept the same from test to test.

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dietcoke0
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Re: Can you overperform on the LSAT?

Postby dietcoke0 » Tue Feb 21, 2012 2:33 pm

I never PT over 165, and got a 170. Shitty thing is, I missed 3 on LGs (I missed an average of .5 on LGs all throughout my PTs) and 6 of my 14 misses came on the last 7 questions of the test. I just ran out of steam and couldn't concentrate anymore. Had I gotten half of those, and the 3 on LGs, would've had something like a 174. Either way happy with my score.

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odetojefferson
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Re: Can you overperform on the LSAT?

Postby odetojefferson » Tue Feb 21, 2012 2:53 pm

My friend Pt'ed from 166-168 and got a 172 test day.

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ThreeRivers
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Re: Can you overperform on the LSAT?

Postby ThreeRivers » Wed Feb 22, 2012 11:59 am

I'm wondering if overperformers have something in common that I did (overperformed my pts)


During pts I subconsciously would start drifting off during my tests (took really strict conditions) with thoughts such as "O this sucks" "I could be going out" "Maybe I should just take half the test now and half the test later" "Damn, its so nice out"

Basically I kept getting distracted with thoughts of being lazy / taking a break from prepping. I never did quit / always powered through but I felt like I was A LOT more focused during the actual test when I wasn't thinking about what else I could be doing.

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TommyK
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Re: Can you overperform on the LSAT?

Postby TommyK » Wed Feb 22, 2012 12:06 pm

180asBreath wrote:"bringing my scaled score down to a much less impressive 174."

Do you really think a 174 is much less impressive than a 176?
How many people get a 174 vs a 176?
Would a 176 give you any opportunities that a 174 wouldn't?


+1 - nice humblebrag if I've ever heard one.

FinallyGoing
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Re: Can you overperform on the LSAT?

Postby FinallyGoing » Wed Feb 22, 2012 1:05 pm

ThreeRivers wrote:I'm wondering if overperformers have something in common that I did (overperformed my pts)


During pts I subconsciously would start drifting off during my tests (took really strict conditions) with thoughts such as "O this sucks" "I could be going out" "Maybe I should just take half the test now and half the test later" "Damn, its so nice out"

Basically I kept getting distracted with thoughts of being lazy / taking a break from prepping. I never did quit / always powered through but I felt like I was A LOT more focused during the actual test when I wasn't thinking about what else I could be doing.


No score here yet but +19743587653763

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bernaldiaz
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Re: Can you overperform on the LSAT?

Postby bernaldiaz » Wed Feb 22, 2012 1:10 pm

yoni45 wrote:
JamMasterJ wrote:The odds of randomly getting three extra credited responses is about 1/125 (if my stats abilities aren't completely terrible :oops: )
So, yeah, it could happen ...


That assumes only 3 questions guessed and nailing all three, and that the guesses are in no way educated... The odds increase substantively as you screw with those variables, but yeah -- LSAC draws a 3 point "score band" for variability, so take from that what you will... ^_^


I'd say on an average test there were maybe 6 questions that I would come back to, each of which I would get down to 2 or 3 possibilities. Let's say roughly I have a 1/50 chance of catching lightning in a bottle on the test, and a 1/50 of sucking, with the likelihood of somewhere in between much higher.

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willwash
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Re: Can you overperform on the LSAT?

Postby willwash » Fri Apr 27, 2012 4:15 am

180asBreath wrote:"bringing my scaled score down to a much less impressive 174."

Do you really think a 174 is much less impressive than a 176?
How many people get a 174 vs a 176?
Would a 176 give you any opportunities that a 174 wouldn't?


With my 3.45 GPA I would say yes. I'm reaching for Columbia/Chicago and am well under their 25th percentile for GPA, which means I realistically need to hit over the 75ht percentile for LSAT to have a fighting chance.

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ThreeRivers
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Re: Can you overperform on the LSAT?

Postby ThreeRivers » Fri Apr 27, 2012 11:58 am

willwash wrote:
180asBreath wrote:"bringing my scaled score down to a much less impressive 174."

Do you really think a 174 is much less impressive than a 176?
How many people get a 174 vs a 176?
Would a 176 give you any opportunities that a 174 wouldn't?


With my 3.45 GPA I would say yes. I'm reaching for Columbia/Chicago and am well under their 25th percentile for GPA, which means I realistically need to hit over the 75ht percentile for LSAT to have a fighting chance.

lol, weird bump months later?

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willwash
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Re: Can you overperform on the LSAT?

Postby willwash » Fri Apr 27, 2012 1:18 pm

ThreeRivers wrote:
willwash wrote:
180asBreath wrote:"bringing my scaled score down to a much less impressive 174."

Do you really think a 174 is much less impressive than a 176?
How many people get a 174 vs a 176?
Would a 176 give you any opportunities that a 174 wouldn't?


With my 3.45 GPA I would say yes. I'm reaching for Columbia/Chicago and am well under their 25th percentile for GPA, which means I realistically need to hit over the 75ht percentile for LSAT to have a fighting chance.

lol, weird bump months later?



Yeah, I am in the Navy, currently on deployment. We have little to no internet on the boat but right now I'm in port...so yes, my posts will come at odd intervals.

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Lyov Myshkin
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Re: Can you overperform on the LSAT?

Postby Lyov Myshkin » Tue May 01, 2012 2:35 am

not without a little humility.

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rayiner
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Re: Can you overperform on the LSAT?

Postby rayiner » Tue May 01, 2012 3:53 am

DaRascal wrote:Has anyone here gone into the LSAT and performed much better than they did on PTs by answering a lot of questions instinctively?


This is why you're not good at the LSAT.




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